Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
So now we have love, faith and hope. The greatest of theses is love.

I. Could give all I have to the poor and sacrifice my body, bu if I do not have love it is worthless.
LOVE is a Spiritual FRUIT, produced by the Holy Spirit after YOU ARE SAVED.


Galatians 5:22-23 (HCSB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.


The Jewish tradition dictates that in any lists, you always put the greatest of all in that list FIRST.


Romans 5:2-5 (CSBBible)
2 We have also obtained access through him by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only that, but we also rejoice in our afflictions, because we know that affliction produces endurance,
4 endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope.
5 This hope will not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


No matter how you cut it, LOVE is in a different LIST than SALVATION, but it is a measure that the SALVATION you received as a FREE GIFT FROM GOD, was REAL.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I believe in the purpose of the resurrection....to empower us to walk as Jesus walked doing the same kind of works...and bringing glory to God.
Correct, but you were saved the MOMENT you first Believed, BEFORE YOU DID ANY WORKS. Works are Part of the LOVE that GOD had the HOLY SPIRIT POUR INTO OUR HEARTS. Rom. 5:5
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF OUR FAITH

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ
was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time,
not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.

Romans 8:24-25 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all.
Who hopes for what he already has? But IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE
YET we wait for it patiently.

2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For
WHAT IS SEEN IS TEMPORARY, but WHAT IS UNSEEN IS ETERNAL.

THERE ARE SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO HAVE ALREADY POSSESSED
ETERNAL SALVATION. DO THEY NO LONGER WAIT FOR THE LORD TO BRING THEM
SALVATION SINCE THEY ALREADY POSSESS IT? ARE THEY NOT GOING TO FACE
JUDGMENT ANYMORE?

Philippians 3:12-16 NOT that I have already OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY BEEN
MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting
what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward THE GOAL to win the
prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are MATURE
should take such a view of things. And if on some point YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, that too
God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have ALREADY ATTAINED.

1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving THE GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, the SALVATION of your
souls.

SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.
OSAS IS A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES THE WORD OF GOD.

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it
is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They
worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the
commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them:
“YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to
observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man
says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me
is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING
for his father or mother. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that
you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”

JESUS SAID;

“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” john 14:15

…” If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”matthew 19:17

“ Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me
will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not
Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we
will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my
teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” john
14:21-24

THIS FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE TEACHES THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS JUST A
WORK THAT MAN CAN DO BUT HAVE NO PART, NEITHER ESSENTIAL NOR NECESSARY
FOR SALVATION WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FF:

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with
loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of
his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO
OBEY HIM.

A QUOTE FROM ElAmor’s POST

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH,
just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command
but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love:
that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning,
his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus
Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the
DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for,
but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in
the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both
the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take
him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED
WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF
CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are
ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own
words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and
Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is
WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in
the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in
the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin,
we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is
the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS
NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is
how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.””””””””

WE ARE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION NOT AS INDIVIDUALS WORKING FOR HIS
OWN SALVATION BUT AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST(eph 4:1-16) WORKING AS GOOD AND
FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:14-30) WHO ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE
SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE.(rom 8:1-17)

WE HONOR AND
GLORIFY GOD BY THESE WORKS OF LOVE, FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THAT BEARS
GOOD FRUITS THAT WILL LAST..(john 15:6-17)

Luke 3:9 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good
fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise to God for a living hope Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the
resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil
or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming
of the SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. In this you
greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though
refined by fire—may be PROVED GENUINE and may result in praise, glory and honor when
Jesus Christ is revealed.

2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to ADD TO YOUR FAITH goodness; and
to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and
to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness,
love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being
INEFFECTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone
does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed
from his PAST SINS. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling
and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a
rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I
know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up!
Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in
the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT
AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at
what time I will come to you.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what
he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap
destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes
from
God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for
himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there
is nothing false about him.

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

“DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE” (james 2:14-26)

“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR” rom 3:4
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You learn the difference between those who believe and immediately are saved, and those who believe and are not immediately saved. Which is it. You have preached for months that the second someone believes they are saved. Now because justpassinthrough has shown you that someone who believes can lose their salvation, you are scrambling to another truth. Now you say, just because you believe does not save you. Wow, geesh, wow. What is it?

Did John 3:16 just get ripped out of the bible?

dude, you need to stop slandering people

I showed you what the difference was.

the one who entrusts themselves to christ after fully repenting (has true saving faith) is saved the moment God receives their faith


John 3: 16 speaks of saving faith, Not mental agreement.

The one who has mental agreement (belief) but has not yet trusted himself to God for salvation, is not saved.

Do I need to copy this post so in the future when you try to slander me again I can prove you to be a liar?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Once again, you have been preaching that 1 second after you believe (John 3:16) you are saved. Now you don't preach that any more. Good going. You are right. You are not saved 1 second after you believe. That is just the beginning of the salvation process, not the end.
once again, your a liar. I have never taught that a person who has mere belief (mental agreement) has ever been saved.

Keep it up and I will report you!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
To some, (without the Holy Spirit), the obvious is a big blur. Amen Mcgee!
The sad part is they THINK they see clearly, while the truth is just a blur they keep resisting and hardening their hearts to.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm stating that to be in the book of Life means eternal life.

To not be in the book of Life means no eternal life.



JPT
that can't be true, if it was true, then one could not be blotted out. If one can be blotted out. it could only mean conditional life, not eternal.

People need to learn what "eternal" Means!!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm having fun exposing you for what what you are.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those who believe are saved.

Those who believe for a while then reject Jesus Christ to save their own life will lose their eternal life.







JPT
lololol!!!

All your doing is exposing yourself

If eternal life can be lost. its not eternal.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest

dude, you need to stop slandering people

I showed you what the difference was.

the one who entrusts themselves to christ after fully repenting (has true saving faith) is saved the moment God receives their faith


John 3: 16 speaks of saving faith, Not mental agreement.

The one who has mental agreement (belief) but has not yet trusted himself to God for salvation, is not saved.

Do I need to copy this post so in the future when you try to slander me again I can prove you to be a liar?

right?

the devils believe and tremble


are they saved?

no....

belief of Him
mental acceptance of Him

these things are different than belief IN HIM <- instantly met with a new heart that screams He is who He says a quickened spirit

the indwelling Holy Spirit

God workinh in us
God chastening us

these do not produce unbelief

He produces greater faith working all things for good to those what love Him <- new heart <- rooted
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
There is a book in the bible called James.

In that book there is this verse...

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

So you have been improperly instructed or you have not read enough to make a proper assessment of what the bible says.
There is another book in the bible, it is called Romans, It says if Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast. But what does the word say? Abraham BELIEVED God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

You should learn why those two passages do not contradict each other.

You should also understand, James said a person who CLAIMS to have faith, but has ZERO works, can that faith save him.

Abraham did not declair himself to have faith, God did, And abraham proved God was correct. By having MANY works AFTER he was declared saved!!

Unlike those in James, who CLAIMED to have faith, But has ZERO works, but were hearers only, not doers. who PROVED they were liars, and never had faith to begin with.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Believe is the requirement to be saved.

  • lest they should believe and be saved.


In the next group these did in fact believe, but only for a while.


So if we are saved the moment we believe, then the person who believed for a while, was indeed saved, but then later he no longer believed.


  • Is someone who no longer believes, still somehow a believer?



Matthew uses the word endure.


20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


Jesus says those who endure [believe] to the end will be saved.

  • But he who endures to the end shall be saved.


9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:9-14




The context of course in all three scriptures is continuing to believe while being persecuted and even killed for your faith in Christ.




JPT
1 John 2.

One who does not believe in Christ is an antichrist

one who is an antichrist, but at one time was part of the church in belief, but left in unbelief was never of us (saved) if they were of us they never would have left

He who endures to the end is speaking of the last days, those who survive until Christ returns, His physical life wil be saved.

Context(passage) and biblical context would help you greatly
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Believe is the requirement to be saved.

  • lest they should believe and be saved.


In the next group these did in fact believe, but only for a while.


So if we are saved the moment we believe, then the person who believed for a while, was indeed saved for a while.




JPT
This person must have me on ignore. But thats fine, He is still being exposed.

We are saved the MOMENT we HAVE FAITH,

Non of the groups but one actually had saving faith in Christ (I disagree with DC on this part)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are missing the context of biblical truth. Rather than rant... read and learn from the word. There may yet be hope for you. Learn to be humble learn about love...which is the bond of perfection. :)

Peace
Same could be said for you my friend.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
right?

the devils believe and tremble


are they saved?

no....

belief of Him
mental acceptance of Him

these things are different than belief IN HIM <- instantly met with a new heart that screams He is who He says a quickened spirit

the indwelling Holy Spirit

God workinh in us
God chastening us

these do not produce unbelief

He produces greater faith working all things for good to those what love Him <- new heart <- rooted
Amen, People who use james to support NOSAS are in for an awakening one day when they realize their hopes based on this passage was wrong.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but according to his mercy has HE SAVED US (PAST TENSE)

Sure...past tense. But unless we produce the fruit of righteousness and holiness we will be cut off...since that is the purpose we were delivered for to begin with.

God is looking for a nation that will produce the proper fruit.

"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. Mat. 21:43

If God cut off the natural branches for a lack of good fruit...He will not spare the wild branches.

So we need the deeds that justify us.....not as a pre-requisite to enter the race....but as a condition of salvation from now on with the power (grace) to do so...or else we will be cut off just as the original branches were.
Then we are saved by works of righteousness which we have done, We are either saved or we are not saved, if we have to maintain salvation by works, we are eventually saved by works.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Another one who believes works are necessary for eternal life. Jesus sacrifice on the cross was not enough.:cry:
seems a few people who were suspicious in a thread he opened were correct in their suspicions.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I believe in the purpose of the resurrection....to empower us to walk as Jesus walked doing the same kind of works...and bringing glory to God.
do you believe that he who began that good work in you WILL complete it until the day of Christ, Or only until the day you stop walking with him? or doing work? Or whatever it is you think a person has to do to lose salvation?

Do you believe he has perfected forever those whome he is sanctifying? Is he sanctifying you? if he is, has he not already perfected you forever as the author of Hebrews says?
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
LOVE is a Spiritual FRUIT, produced by the Holy Spirit after YOU ARE SAVED.


Galatians 5:22-23 (HCSB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.


The Jewish tradition dictates that in any lists, you always put the greatest of all in that list FIRST.


Romans 5:2-5 (CSBBible)
2 We have also obtained access through him by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only that, but we also rejoice in our afflictions, because we know that affliction produces endurance,
4 endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope.
5 This hope will not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


No matter how you cut it, LOVE is in a different LIST than SALVATION, but it is a measure that the SALVATION you received as a FREE GIFT FROM GOD, was REAL.

Ok.


If a born again Christian who is saved by grace through faith, and loves people for years, then discovers her husband has been having an affair behind her back, then becomes bitter and divorces him and becomes a lesbian who hates men, and dies in that condition...

Is that person still saved or lost?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



JPT