The Divine Equation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Latour

Latour

Active member
#1
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#1
My first thread in the chats....(besides intro of course ;) )

Greetings to all my precious brothers and sisters in Christ.
The subject I would like to bring some attention to is one that involves the makeup of truth. It is the easiest thing in the world to get the bible wrong and specifically to mis-understand Paul (even Peter attests to that fact). Why is that?

Well, the truth is like a wheel within wheel. It seems to be going in more than one direction at a time. It can only be understood by us humans as an equation with 2 polarities...like a magnet has (north and south) or the positive and negative poles of a battery. Even our planet (dear old Earth) has a magnetic polarity that stops us from burning up from solar flares. So likewise if we want to stay away from the fires of righteous judgment that burn up our own works (and reveal the lack of truth in us) we will need to provide balance and polarity to our understanding.

Every seeming nice sounding verse has another verse that sounds the opposite. Everything in the bible has both a "good" side and a "bad" side, but all this is beneficial for us to grow into the full knowledge of Christ. It is only as we take on ALL the verses....the blessings AND the cursings....and truly allow ourselves to be inspected and purged by the Holy Spirit will we be able to grow into the truth and the likeness of Christ. As the disciples asked when Jesus said that one of them would betray Him..."Lord, is it I?"
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#2
Mar 13, 2014
42,550
17,022
113
69
Tennessee
#2
Someone asked Jesus once what exactly was the truth and Jesus replied "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life".

The divine equation is comprised of three separate entities consisting of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I guess that the nice sounding verses are only nice if they happen to validate a person's own current perception of what is truth.

Interesting equation the divine is.
 
D

DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#3
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#3
Latour said:
My first thread in the chats....(besides intro of course ;) )

Greetings to all my precious brothers and sisters in Christ.
The subject I would like to bring some attention to is one that involves the makeup of truth. It is the easiest thing in the world to get the bible wrong and specifically to mis-understand Paul (even Peter attests to that fact). Why is that?

Well, the truth is like a wheel within wheel. It seems to be going in more than one direction at a time. It can only be understood by us humans as an equation with 2 polarities...like a magnet has (north and south) or the positive and negative poles of a battery. Even our planet (dear old Earth) has a magnetic polarity that stops us from burning up from solar flares. So likewise if we want to stay away from the fires of righteous judgment that burn up our own works (and reveal the lack of truth in us) we will need to provide balance and polarity to our understanding.

Every seeming nice sounding verse has another verse that sounds the opposite. Everything in the bible has both a "good" side and a "bad" side, but all this is beneficial for us to grow into the full knowledge of Christ. It is only as we take on ALL the verses....the blessings AND the cursings....and truly allow ourselves to be inspected and purged by the Holy Spirit will we be able to grow into the truth and the likeness of Christ. As the disciples asked when Jesus said that one of them would betray Him..."Lord, is it I?"
Click to expand...
Peter explains that Paul was preaching the patience of the Lord giving time for repentance which some twisted to mean they could live immoral lives. Paul was not preaching a polar opposite truth to another truth. Are you a follower of Bill Johnson?
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#4
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#4
DevotiontoBible said:
Peter explains that Paul was preaching the patience of the Lord giving time for repentance which some twisted to mean they could live immoral lives. Paul was not preaching a polar opposite truth to another truth. Are you a follower of Bill Johnson?
Click to expand...
Actually a follower of Christ. Who's Bill Johnson?

I was saying that truth itself has a dual polarity....not that there are polar opposite truths. A battery, for example, is not opposed to itself but rather gets it's power from it's dual polarity.
 
D

DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#5
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#5
Latour said:
Actually a follower of Christ. Who's Bill Johnson?

I was saying that truth itself has a dual polarity....not that there are polar opposite truths. A battery, for example, is not opposed to itself but rather gets it's power from it's dual polarity.
Click to expand...
Please explain what "dual polarity" Paul was preaching?
 
D

DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#6
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#6
Latour said:
Actually a follower of Christ. Who's Bill Johnson?

I was saying that truth itself has a dual polarity....not that there are polar opposite truths. A battery, for example, is not opposed to itself but rather gets it's power from it's dual polarity.
Click to expand...
Bill Johnson at Bethel Church. He has a similar sounding hermeneutic to yours.
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#7
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#7
DevotiontoBible said:
Please explain what "dual polarity" Paul was preaching?
Click to expand...
All truth is this way. Not just Paul. But an example of Paul presenting this kind of polarity is the distinction between no flesh being justified by doing the law (Rom. 3:20)

"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Rom 3:20

and the seeming opposite statement...

"for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified." Rom. 2:13
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#9
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#9
Another conundrum is that while we are not justified by works while we are alive (no one can claim to be righteous on earth) ...yet on judgment day we will be justified (or not) by our works. No one is judged by grace...we will be judged for the grace (or against the grace) that we have been given.

It is important to look into this. God will reward or punish every man (and woman) according to what they have done. So basically we will be judged according to what we have been given. To the Christian...a harder judgment. To the one who teaches others... the hardest judgment of all.

So then those who have received much (grace) will be judged HARDER for it....not easier. I think a lot of people don't take that into the equation. God judges righteously. We never get to a place where we are immune from judgment for what we do. The Holy Spirit makes us more responsible for our actions...not less.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#10
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#10
Latour said:
Another conundrum is that while we are not justified by works while we are alive (no one can claim to be righteous on earth) ...yet on judgment day we will be justified (or not) by our works. No one is judged by grace...we will be judged for the grace (or against the grace) that we have been given.

It is important to look into this. God will reward or punish every man (and woman) according to what they have done. So basically we will be judged according to what we have been given. To the Christian...a harder judgment. To the one who teaches others... the hardest judgment of all.

So then those who have received much (grace) will be judged HARDER for it....not easier. I think a lot of people don't take that into the equation. God judges righteously. We never get to a place where we are immune from judgment for what we do. The Holy Spirit makes us more responsible for our actions...not less.
Click to expand...
You mean, sort of like...the men and the talents?
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#11
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#11
Even grace has 2 sides....or 2 possible effects on us. It can be the greatest thing in the world...providing power and life through the Spirit. But it can also be used against us...as in... "grace is deceitful" (Prov. 31) This is when we are half-baked (half-converted) and use knowledge improperly without love and kindness towards others.

So it depends on us...our attitude and how we take things. And how we treat others.

The word of God discerns us...like a 2 edged sword. What we judge in others can fall back on us. Our low opinion of others actually reveals our own low standing in the truth. Who then can wield the truth? Only they who fear the Lord and have humbled themselves to take on ALL the warnings as well as blessings in the bible. The Lord will judge His people.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#12
Jun 30, 2015
25,365
13,727
113
#12
Latour said:
Actually a follower of Christ. Who's Bill Johnson?

I was saying that truth itself has a dual polarity....not that there are polar opposite truths. A battery, for example, is not opposed to itself but rather gets it's power from it's dual polarity.
Click to expand...
Respectfully, this sounds more like Taoism than Christianity. A modern expression would be "the Force" of the Star Wars series, where light and darkness balance to create harmony. Christianity is light extinguishing the darkness of evil, sin and death. There is no balance. I can see that in some limited realms that balance and polarity are needed, but I would be wary of assuming that everything can be classified as such.
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#13
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#13
Stunnedbygrace said:
You mean, sort of like...the men and the talents?
Click to expand...

Yes! Some teach that grace is given for nothing...without any expectation of return. But God is a Gardener of sorts. He is looking for fruit...for produce. God is like a banker looking for return on His investment. What is revealed in us is our compatibility with a holy God. We can learn from Christ...or remain stuck in our own carnal ways. We can learn much from Jesus...that is if we are inclined to have an open heart and a willing mind. :)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#14
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#14
I think, dino, that he is more trying to say that...like, for example, when someone runs with one verse but does not see the verse in tension to the one they are running with, and so they come out very unbalanced.

You can listen to the church channels and see it clearly.
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#15
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#15
Dino246 said:
Respectfully, this sounds more like Taoism than Christianity. A modern expression would be "the Force" of the Star Wars series, where light and darkness balance to create harmony. Christianity is light extinguishing the darkness of evil, sin and death. There is no balance. I can see that in some limited realms that balance and polarity are needed, but I would be wary of assuming that everything can be classified as such.
Click to expand...
Just because others can see what is obvious doesn't mean we can afford to ignore the obvious. ;) Look more closely at the judgment concerning the 10 virgins. How many are approved and how many rejected? Look at the rapture. What percentage are taken and what are left?
Now I don't believe that the numbers are meant to be exact...but for the serious student they show the polarity of the truth. It is they who can't see that there IS a polarity that are most in danger of becoming part of the equation they would wish not to be an example of. So then if all men who call on the name of the Lord will be saved how do you explain those who even do miracles in the name of Jesus being rejected? The message is...no one is safe simply because they think they are. That is why wisdom is shown in the equation rather than the opinion of men who are VERY prone to be deceived...both by a very clever devel and their own errant tendencies to believe only good can happen to themselves.

So I would say...not to judge too quickly.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#16
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#16
Latour said:
Yes! Some teach that grace is given for nothing...without any expectation of return. But God is a Gardener of sorts. He is looking for fruit...for produce. God is like a banker looking for return on His investment. What is revealed in us is our compatibility with a holy God. We can learn from Christ...or remain stuck in our own carnal ways. We can learn much from Jesus...that is if we are inclined to have an open heart and a willing mind. :)
Click to expand...
Yes...but it's definitely a process. Our minds aren't renewed overnight. We grow in virtue and knowledge.
 
D

DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#17
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#17
Latour said:
All truth is this way. Not just Paul. But an example of Paul presenting this kind of polarity is the distinction between no flesh being justified by doing the law (Rom. 3:20)

"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Rom 3:20

and the seeming opposite statement...

"for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified." Rom. 2:13
Click to expand...
Since Paul said: Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.
Romans 3:19 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.3.19.NLT

It is clear that 2:13 isn't saying anyone actually has been justified by keeping the law since everyone has broken it.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#18
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#18
DevotiontoBible said:
Since Paul said: Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.
Romans 3:19 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.3.19.NLT

It is clear that 2:13 isn't saying anyone actually has been justified by keeping the law since everyone has broken it.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's his drift at all...I'd have to hear more.
I think he is talking more about, for instance, the men and the talents. Or...being saved but as if through fire. (Who wants that?)
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#20
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#20
DevotiontoBible said:
Since Paul said: Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.
Romans 3:19 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.3.19.NLT

It is clear that 2:13 isn't saying anyone actually has been justified by keeping the law since everyone has broken it.
Click to expand...

But you are staying on the same side of the equation by not seeing the other side of the truth. So you are right about THAT side of the truth. but...if you don't keep the righteous requirements of the law...then you are a law breaker not a righteous person.
Paul said what he meant. A righteous man fulfills the purpose of the law.
A saint fulfills the law of Christ.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.