Not By Works

[star]

Prove that statement from the scriptues. Thank you. Where does it say that baptism is not necessary to be saved?

I don't need to prove anything. If you know your bible as well as you say, you can find scripture to back up what I say. There was a thief on the cross who was never baptized, yet he was that very day with Jesus in Paradise. There have been babies not baptized, others who made professions of faith on their death beds who are with Jesus this very day.

Salvation is a gift, praise God from whom all blessings flow, and not a "work."

 

[star]

Where is the faith from a believer in the power and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, if someone has to be baptized in order to be saved?

 

[justpassinthrough]

your goal is to pervert the gospel in a way that ignores the promises of God to His children

Resorting to ad hominem, while ignoring the plain truth of the scriptures, exposes the spirit that is driving your doctrine.


God promises salvation to those who believe.


God promises the lake of fire for those who are unbelieving.


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8





Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe

• lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Resorting to ad hominem, while ignoring the plain truth of the scriptures, exposes the spirit that is driving your doctrine.


God promises salvation to those who believe.


God promises the lake of fire for those who are unbelieving.


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8





Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe

• lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT

Salvation is not given to those who merely believe,

It is given to those who have faith.

Learn the difference between true saving faith and mere belief (even demons believe) one can believe in the gospel. and yet never entrust their eternity to the gospel based on true repentance.

Believe is not a condition one must do to be saved, it is a place where we arrive after true repentance. And it is the work of God. (john 6, it is the work of God we believe in the one he sent)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where is the faith from a believer in the power and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, if someone has to be baptized in order to be saved?

His faith would be in his work, and in the man baptizing him or her, not in God.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Resorting to ad hominem, while ignoring the plain truth of the scriptures, exposes the spirit that is driving your doctrine.


God promises salvation to those who believe.


God promises the lake of fire for those who are unbelieving.


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8





Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe

• lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT

lol
i wonder if the "white washed tombs" would say Jesus was using an ad hominem

you said your goal was to attack eternal security ... you then make silly strawmen like someone suggested salvation to anyone who doesnt believe


you ignore the new heart and quickened spirit

you ignore the promises of God

you ignore the many verses which clearly reveal what a saving faith is

then post random out of context verses in between your head canon and strawmen all while thinking yourself to be wise


you have been proven wrong time and time again desperately clinging to your false assumptions


im here in love trying to show someone deeply rooted in error which is clear through their shady tactics and false gospel with a tough love

i aint going to stop until you stop perverting Gods character from a loving Father into some liar who is too weak to keep His promises

 

[justpassinthrough]

lol
i wonder if the "white washed tombs" would say Jesus was using an ad hominem

I guess you can't even answer a simple question about a foundational doctrine such as salvation.


You seem to be intent upon arguing about your opinion rather than discussing the truth of scripture.


You are marked as a divisive person, and a slanderer, who can't even agree that the promise of salvation is for those who "believe".



3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5



God promises salvation to those who believe.


God promises the lake of fire for those who are unbelieving.


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8





Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe

• lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol
i wonder if the "white washed tombs" would say Jesus was using an ad hominem

you said your goal was to attack eternal security ... you then make silly strawmen like someone suggested salvation to anyone who doesnt believe


you ignore the new heart and quickened spirit

you ignore the promises of God

you ignore the many verses which clearly reveal what a saving faith is

then post random out of context verses in between your head canon and strawmen all while thinking yourself to be wise


you have been proven wrong time and time again desperately clinging to your false assumptions


im here in love trying to show someone deeply rooted in error which is clear through their shady tactics and false gospel with a tough love

i aint going to stop until you stop perverting Gods character from a loving Father into some liar who is too weak to keep His promises

I like that, He is here to attack eternal security. WHich in my view it means he is attacking the character of God, but that's beside the point)

yet from what I read, He does not even understand what it is.

Last I understood, If you want to attack something, your first step is to understand what t is you are attacking. Otherwise, you are just throwing bomb shells which are missing the explosive element which is required to take out the enemy.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

God promises salvation to those who believe.

yup


not believe and also blah blah blah
not pretend to believe

but to whosoever believes



if you want an answer to the rest of your copy and pasted questions

just check our old conversations

answered them all with scripture already

so have many others brothers and sisters here

if you actually take the time to read them

it could be very useful to you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You seem to be intent upon arguing about your opinion rather than discussing the truth of scripture.

The same could be said of you.

You are marked as a divisive person, and a slanderer, who can't even agree that the promise of salvation is for those who "believe".

You definately need to look in the mirror man, This is you to a "T"

3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5



God promises salvation to those who believe.


God promises the lake of fire for those who are unbelieving.


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8





Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe

• lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT

Already been answered. As usual, You do not see things for as they are, you interpret them to fit your belief, not reality.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yup


not believe and also blah blah blah
not pretend to believe

but to whosoever believes



if you want an answer to the rest of your copy and pasted questions

just check our old conversations

answered them all with scripture already

so have many others brothers and sisters here

if you actually take the time to read them

it could be very useful to you

Remember, We are justified through FAITH, Saved through FAITH, not of ourselfs, it is the gift of God.

It is the work of God we entrust our eternity to him.

Like abraham, we are saved not by works of righteousness which we have done, are doing or will do, but by his mercy,

 

[NoNameMcgee]

mark 4

3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.


______________

14 The sower soweth the word.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

(called but not chosen <- no saving faith
not born again.... no root

their hearts were not transformed but rejected the seed
they would reject Him the moment they hear of the truth)
____________

16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

(again no root... not born again
no enduring faith

trials and tribulations were enough to prove they did not have a saving faith)
______________

18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.


(no saving faith... they turn from the knowledge of God to jump back into a life of living in and justifying sin and worldly pleasures instead of accepting they are wicked and need Him)

(like the reprobate)

(never born again)

Romans 1
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

____________



20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

^^
(theeeese are born again sons/daughters of God)

___________
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

(and unlike demons who know of Him but have no faith IN Him

there is fruit due to being rooted IN Him)

(born again by grace through faith.... not works)

1 peter


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

(we are those who no doubt continue in the faith)
______________
1 john 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

________
(not those who fall away into unbelief)


heres a bump for context i posted the last time you misused that verse

 

[benhur]

i never said ignore His words

that is just you either trying to bait me

or misunderstanding my words

but i explained them clearly

Then what do you do with Jesus's words that you divide out because you think they sound like the law of Moses words?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Then what do you do with Jesus's words that you divide out because you think they sound like the law of Moses words?

huh?

"divide out?"

i dont do that

what are you talking about

all of scripture is good

you just need to understand what youre reading

if you just take verses you think you understand and end up pushing some false gospel

while ignoring other scriptures you are in error


you may suggest thats what i do

but you cannot back that claim up

 

[benhur]

mark 4

3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.


______________

14 The sower soweth the word.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

(called but not chosen <- no saving faith
not born again.... no root

their hearts were not transformed but rejected the seed
they would reject Him the moment they hear of the truth)
____________

16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

(again no root... not born again
no enduring faith

trials and tribulations were enough to prove they did not have a saving faith)
______________

18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.


(no saving faith... they turn from the knowledge of God to jump back into a life of living in and justifying sin and worldly pleasures instead of accepting they are wicked and need Him)

(like the reprobate)

(never born again)

Romans 1
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

____________



20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

^^
(theeeese are born again sons/daughters of God)

___________
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

(and unlike demons who know of Him but have no faith IN Him

there is fruit due to being rooted IN Him)

(born again by grace through faith.... not works)

1 peter


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

(we are those who no doubt continue in the faith)
______________
1 john 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

________
(not those who fall away into unbelief)


heres a bump for context i posted the last time you misused that verse

These are great scriptures and I believe every one of them. Thank you.

 

[benhur]

huh?

"divide out?"

i dont do that

what are you talking about

all of scripture is good

you just need to understand what youre reading

if you just take verses you think you understand and end up pushing some false gospel

while ignoring other scriptures you are in error


you may suggest thats what i do

but you cannot back that claim up

You said I do not know how to divide out the law of Moses vs grace scriptures. So my question is a ligitimate one. How do you divide out Jesus's words that sound like law of Moses scriptures? If you say you do not do that, then what do you do with his words that demand good works?

 

[benhur]

there is no instance of a "saved person"

a born again son/daughter of God losing salvation in the bible

there are only promises from God against that

So if ES is a real thing, why does Jesus tell us to repent or we will be out?

 

[benhur]

there is no instance of a "saved person"

a born again son/daughter of God losing salvation in the bible

there are only promises from God against that

This is just 1 of many, which I know you are aware of:
Revelations 2: 1-5
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

If you follow the embolden parts, you will not hear one word about believe me and by grace are you saved. It is an evaluation of Jesus about their works, good or bad. These are people that you would call saved, but they have lost their first love of the gospel and have fallen. Jesus gives them a reprieve by telling them to repent or he will come and remove them.

Now you can argue that they were never saved in the first place, but if you go that route everyone in the ancient first century church was not in a saved condition, and nobody in that era made it to eternal life. So that is not a solution to your problem.

The solution is they were saved, but were fallen and if they repent, they would be saved still, but if they did not repent, they would be removed. (meaning they would lose their eternal life)

 

[justpassinthrough]

yup


not believe and also blah blah blah
not pretend to believe

but to whosoever believes



if you want an answer to the rest of your copy and pasted questions

just check our old conversations

answered them all with scripture already

so have many others brothers and sisters here

if you actually take the time to read them

it could be very useful to you

Still more opinion, and no scriptures, in the face of simple truth.


Jesus didn't say these "pretended to believe".

That's just another logical fallacy, to go along with your ad hominem.

You have created a Strawman, in which you "make up" something Jesus didn't say, and then argued about the the thing Jesus never said.


Jesus never said these "pretended to believe".


This is what I have come to expect from those who promote false doctrine, attacking and fasle statements to prop up their man made doctrine.


Thanks for exposing the spirit of error who is driving your Heresy.


I can see the hatred you have for the truth.



Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe

• lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Still more opinion, and no scriptures, in the face of simple truth.


Jesus didn't say these "pretended to believe".

That's just another logical fallacy, to go along with your ad hominem.

You have created a Strawman, in which you "make up" something Jesus didn't say, and then argued about the the thing Jesus never said.


Jesus never said these "pretended to believe".


This is what I have come to expect from those who promote false doctrine, attacking and fasle statements to prop up their man made doctrine.


Thanks for exposing the spirit of error who is driving your Heresy.


I can see the hatred you have for the truth.



Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe

• lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT

Your question has been answered numerous times, Your continued ignoring of those answers and continuing to act as if they have not been answered just makes yourself look bad man.

Again, One can believe and NOT HAVE FAITH, if you do not have faith, Your not saved, whether you believe or not.