Baptism and holy spirit
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I gave you the appropriate scriptures in the previous post.
1 Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Did someone interpret? Were there lost souls present? Did others speak in tongues?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
1 Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Did someone interpret? Were there lost souls present? Did others speak in tongues?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
No no you are dodging 1cor 13:8 you answer the one i asked and show that you can be far and explain what the "Perfect" is in 1cor 13:8
yes sould were savfed that night
at our Younth meeting, Yes edification did happen too. Now back to 1cor 13;8 and10
yes sould were savfed that night
at our Younth meeting, Yes edification did happen too. Now back to 1cor 13;8 and10
Was there an interpreter present?
Face to face is not when we are present with the Lord it is when we see ourselves as God sees us. As sinners in need of salvation and completely unable to save ourselves. We see ourselves as completely dependent upon Gods grace and mercy for our daily needs.
The completed revelation of God was still a work in progress when 1 Cor 13:8 was penned. Those sign gifts were given to establish the authority of the apostles and disciples until the word was completed. Today we have the authority of Gods word to proclaim Christ and tell men of their need to be saved. Our great commission is to be a witness of the salvation Christ has given us.
Tongues, prophesy, and knowledge have passed away because we now have the sure word of God as testimony of Gods power to save. That which was in part is done away. We now understand as a man not as children.
With the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit we love the Lord and we love our fellow man to whom we witness of Christ. We love our enemies as our hope is that they will be saved and no longer strive against God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
No I did not say I was saved that night please do not do this ok it's better you just let it go ok. Because again you will not prove your position biblically in 1cor 13:8-10 “That which is “Perfect”.
in context this is “the Coming of the Lord” as Paul Greatly mentioned it in many of his writings as the Holy Spirit led him to do. It is not the creation of the bible. Gods word is always: true , Perfect, and alive.
That is why I was speaking to another and said as I knew those like you would home in on a personal testimony. You did not see the good in it you sought to attack and for that you sir you and I are done.
in context this is “the Coming of the Lord” as Paul Greatly mentioned it in many of his writings as the Holy Spirit led him to do. It is not the creation of the bible. Gods word is always: true , Perfect, and alive.
That is why I was speaking to another and said as I knew those like you would home in on a personal testimony. You did not see the good in it you sought to attack and for that you sir you and I are done.
LOl face to face is how we will see Jesus you need to understand authorial intent. Who was Paul speaking to? And how would they apply the word then? They did not have the New Testament; they had the Prophetic writings and the LAW. And the Testimony of Christ and HIS Gospel message. IF the Bible was what Paul was speaking about in 1cor 13:8 the verse alone does not support that. But the Normative in the writings of Paul do support the coming of the Lord which in Corinthians, Paul does talk about.
I'm with you CS1. You don't attack a persons testimony of how they met God.
Honestly, I can't even follow your posts roger. I got the impression you were saying the tongues gift given to him was false because no one was interpreting. But honestly, you have no idea if an interpreter was necessary. There could have been someone there, a foreigner, who heard him speak in their language, like at Pentecost, and there weren't interpreters there because the people heard their own tongue/language being spoken. God could have been speaking through him to one little old man in the back who went to church out of some kind of desperation even though he didn't understand what anyone was saying because they weren't speaking his tongue and then he suddenly heard a message just for him from God. It might have been five words. If God said the right 5 words to a man, you don't know but that it convinced him and he met God! Heck, even CS1, who spoke the tongue, has no idea what God was doing! He doesn't even know what he himself said!
And CS1 is the only one here yet who has the gift of tongues who hasn't said something that sounded completely off kilter to me. Like...if you don't speak in tongues you've never prayed in spirit, which those of us who know we HAVE, (but without tongues), will NEVER accept as truth because we know darn well it isn't true.
At this point, given the entire conversation from start to finish, if I had a question about tongues, I'd be most likely to go to him rather than any of the other tongues posters, because I think he probably understands it better than they. And I don't think even HE understands it completely because how could you? It's a manifestation of God, who is Spirit - can ANY man ever understand a manifestation of God completely??
You know, if tongues speakers would get off this idea that they need to fully explain this manifestation of the Spirit, and just drop the things they insist on clinging to - like that if you've never received this particular gift you've never prayed in spirit - that are not true because we have prayed in spirit and darn well know it - and just admit that they can't fully explain it but will do their best, and just use their gifting without insisting the Spirit has to give it to everyone, we'd get a whole lot further.
But no, they will keep insisting they know everything about it and know for a fact that we've never prayed/communed in spirit, and that we're just willfully refusing to open our mouths and speak, or that we're frightened of it, or that God gives the gift to everyone (which is so completely off kilter from what the entire long passage about parts of the body says that if an English teacher were to give them a reading comprehension quiz, they would flunk it), then there wouldn't be these problems. That's not to say that a few odd ducks here and there who NO ONE ever agrees with because they scarcely EVER understand a verse correctly wouldn't mosey in and start spouting off crazily, but most wouldn't, because we DO believe in various tongues, but we just can't abide throwing simple reading comprehension out the window!
End rant.
Honestly, I can't even follow your posts roger. I got the impression you were saying the tongues gift given to him was false because no one was interpreting. But honestly, you have no idea if an interpreter was necessary. There could have been someone there, a foreigner, who heard him speak in their language, like at Pentecost, and there weren't interpreters there because the people heard their own tongue/language being spoken. God could have been speaking through him to one little old man in the back who went to church out of some kind of desperation even though he didn't understand what anyone was saying because they weren't speaking his tongue and then he suddenly heard a message just for him from God. It might have been five words. If God said the right 5 words to a man, you don't know but that it convinced him and he met God! Heck, even CS1, who spoke the tongue, has no idea what God was doing! He doesn't even know what he himself said!
And CS1 is the only one here yet who has the gift of tongues who hasn't said something that sounded completely off kilter to me. Like...if you don't speak in tongues you've never prayed in spirit, which those of us who know we HAVE, (but without tongues), will NEVER accept as truth because we know darn well it isn't true.
At this point, given the entire conversation from start to finish, if I had a question about tongues, I'd be most likely to go to him rather than any of the other tongues posters, because I think he probably understands it better than they. And I don't think even HE understands it completely because how could you? It's a manifestation of God, who is Spirit - can ANY man ever understand a manifestation of God completely??
You know, if tongues speakers would get off this idea that they need to fully explain this manifestation of the Spirit, and just drop the things they insist on clinging to - like that if you've never received this particular gift you've never prayed in spirit - that are not true because we have prayed in spirit and darn well know it - and just admit that they can't fully explain it but will do their best, and just use their gifting without insisting the Spirit has to give it to everyone, we'd get a whole lot further.
But no, they will keep insisting they know everything about it and know for a fact that we've never prayed/communed in spirit, and that we're just willfully refusing to open our mouths and speak, or that we're frightened of it, or that God gives the gift to everyone (which is so completely off kilter from what the entire long passage about parts of the body says that if an English teacher were to give them a reading comprehension quiz, they would flunk it), then there wouldn't be these problems. That's not to say that a few odd ducks here and there who NO ONE ever agrees with because they scarcely EVER understand a verse correctly wouldn't mosey in and start spouting off crazily, but most wouldn't, because we DO believe in various tongues, but we just can't abide throwing simple reading comprehension out the window!
End rant.
1 Corinthians 14:18-23
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
I did not address your testimony of salvation. I merely asked a biblical question based on 1 Cor 14 about your appearance of tongues.
Go ahead and pick and choose which parts of the text you wish to believe. But in total context tongues were predicted to end and for centuries they ended.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Go ahead and pick and choose which parts of the text you wish to believe. But in total context tongues were predicted to end and for centuries they ended.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When the Lord returns we will be in our glorified bodies. What possible reason would we have to speak in tongues? If part of the coming of the Lord involves the great tribulation then it would be Jews speaking tongues. Perhaps the 144,000 who will be evangelizing during that time. The church is with the Lord so it won't be us speaking tongues at that time.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Scripture gives us specific criteria for the presence of tongues. I only asked if those specifics were present. We are told to try the spirits.
If you cannot demonstrate that the conditions set forth in 1 Cor 14 were met then I suggest that something is out of order. These questions should be asked anytime tongues are said to have been present.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you cannot demonstrate that the conditions set forth in 1 Cor 14 were met then I suggest that something is out of order. These questions should be asked anytime tongues are said to have been present.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
That is not the face to face of 1 Cor 13. The OT always portrayed Christ in veiled terms. Promises to Israel of a Redeemer but not specific enough to recognize Him unless you were really looking.
The NT makes it very clear that Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah. The face to face with Christ revealed in the NT scriptures.
Messiah is described in Isaiah 53 but to this day Israel will not see Him. We see Him because we are able to take the NT and relate Christ back to the OT scriptures.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The NT makes it very clear that Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah. The face to face with Christ revealed in the NT scriptures.
Messiah is described in Isaiah 53 but to this day Israel will not see Him. We see Him because we are able to take the NT and relate Christ back to the OT scriptures.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We see through a glass darkly - does not mean "veiled" . . . the Greek word for darkly is ainigma where we get our word "enigma" meaning something difficult to understand; a puzzle. If this context is talking about the completed Bible, i.e. the NT - then why do we all still have questions? Why are some things still difficult to understand? We should be understanding and know even as we are known . . . nope, none of us are mature or completely grown up in Christ. We still have a way to go so I guess even with the completed NT, we still see darkly and not as yet, face to face. We still only know in part so we still nee the "that which is in part" e.g. then that which is in part shall be done away, e.g. prophecies (we prophecy in part), tongues and word of knowledge.
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