GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[gb9]

Hi Studyman,
something weird seems to be happening with some of your posts, there.

in one of ones above the things you wrote are attributed to posthuman

a lot of weird things happen in studyman's posts. those of us who constantly interact ( or correct his opinion based , man made " theology " ), are used to it.

 

[posthuman]

He needs to figure out how to use the quote tags correctly.

Use the 'preview' button; it's helpful.

 

[posthuman]

Jeremiah, btw, prophesied to an Israel that was at that very time literally worshiping literal idols.

An Israel that had a particular covenant. A particular Law.

Do try not to conflate without regard for context.

 

[Jackson123]

Jesus was kinda famous.
And a sign over Him said "king"
This doesn't make everyone who's heard of Him and is literate a believer: see, for example, the other thief, and all the people mocking Him. Even the Sanhedrin knew they couldn't pin any sin on Him, and Pilate said so to everyone. And had the sign made. So, will we meet Pilate in heaven? I hope so, tbh.

Yep, the fact he did crime, more likely he was't believer before. Though not necessarily.

 

[Studyman]

Romans 4:13-17

For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring--not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

Rom. 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

What "Works" is Paul speaking about? Because the Bible clearly says Abraham was blessed "Because" he did something the other people in the land didn't do.

Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

We can argue over whether God's Laws given to Abraham including Loving God and Loving your neighbor, along with the instructions of how to do these things, though it seems the Bible confirms he did both.

But one Law we know He didn't have was the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" given for the atonement of sins. Levi wasn't even born yet. Paul speaks to this "Law of Works" in Rom. 3 and gal. 3 when he tells us this Law of Works" was Added 430 years after Abraham.. Abraham was justified "Apart" from this Law. But to say He was justified because he rejected the instructions given by God to him is a lie Post. Paul isn't saying that at all.

God gave him instructions and he trusted God enough to obey and this action was attributed to him as righteousness. Through this obedience which is called Faith, he is the Father of us all.

Not because he took a goat to the Levite as the "ADDED" Law directed, as the Jews were still pushing, but because he trusted in God enough to follow His Commands.

This is true, you can not find fault with this statement using All the Word's of God. Some things are just Biblical fact.

Christ gave commandments. One of them is give to whoever asks of you without demanding it back.
That's not in the Law of Moses.

Matt. 5:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

Luke 6:
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

You preach this wasn't taught in the Law and Prophets. Another in a long list of false teaching you bring to this forum.

Prov. 20:22 Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee.

Proverbs. 25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

Prov. 24:29 Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work.

Is. 50:5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Gen. 50:15 And when Joseph's brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, Joseph will peradventure hate us, and will certainly requite us all the evil which we did unto him.

The Old Testament teaches the same things Jesus taught. He was the creator of the Word's of the OT. They were His Word's. Your attempts to create another Jesus who teaches differently, although very popular in the religions of the land, is a false teaching just the same. And explains why you can look at scripture but not see it.

Thinking that when He says "keep my commandments" He means the Law of Moses is therefore a logical fallacy, and it doesn't make Romans ch. 3-8 go away. It doesn't destroy the book of Galatians. It doesn't make believers commanded to keep the Law of Moses, as the other believing Pharisees thought.

Moses didn't create even one Commandment. The Word which became Flesh in the person of Jesus the Christ did. So it is a deception to preach Moses had Laws and the Word which became Flesh had different Laws. It is a lie, a falsehood to preach this. When Jesus says "MY Commandments" He is talking about His Commandments that He created as the Word of God. He didn't say "Moses is Lord even of the Sabbath", He said "the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.

I find it fascinating that you exalt yourself as "hidden in Christ", yet you blatantly reject and preach against His very Words over and over. The Pharisees were not trying to get the Gentiles to follow God as did Zechariahs. They called their religion "the Law of Moses" but Jesus said over and over and over, that they were liars. That they didn't follow God's Commandments or teach other to follow God's Commandments. They called much of the Law and Prophets "Heresy" as Paul tells us. You have been shown this several times, yet you either reuse to accept it, or you can't accept it.

I believe all of Romans and Galatians. I understand the Catholic version of them do not destroy the entire rest of the Bible, or all the Word's of God. Men use Paul's Word's to deceive as the Bible warns us. But he only teaches what is taught in the Law and Prophets. That is the only Gospel he or Jesus or anyone else had.

Old news, mate. You're just another believing Pharisee yourself, with the same wrong understanding that was cleared up in the council of Jerusalem 2,000 years ago.

"previously covered"

Well it is "Old news" for sure. The deceiver has been trying to turn people away from honoring God with respect and obedience since the serpent convinced Eve that God's instructions were a lie to keep her stupid.

 

[Studyman]

Jesus was kinda famous.
And a sign over Him said "king"
This doesn't make everyone who's heard of Him and is literate a believer: see, for example, the other thief, and all the people mocking Him. Even the Sanhedrin knew they couldn't pin any sin on Him, and Pilate said so to everyone. And had the sign made. So, will we meet Pilate in heaven? I hope so, tbh.

My point was simply that this man knew of Jesus and His Righteousness before he was nailed to the cross. And as Jesus confirmed to Peter, this knowledge was given to him by the Father, and withheld from the other thief and those who would Mock Him.

You are free to reject this belief.

 

[Studyman]

Jeremiah, btw, prophesied to an Israel that was at that very time literally worshiping literal idols.

An Israel that had a particular covenant. A particular Law.

Do try not to conflate without regard for context.

I'm going by what the Scriptures teach, ALL of them.

You preach the OT was only for some ancient bloodline. But Paul taught Salvation from the very scriptures you reject.

1 Cor. 10:
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

What? The Christ existed before the New Testament? How can that be given your preaching Post? Is it your preaching or the Christ's preaching that I must ignore? I going with the Christ Post.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

What? These weren't only for one group of people?

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Maybe it isn't God's Words that are wrong Post.

 

[posthuman]

My point was simply that this man knew of Jesus and His Righteousness before he was nailed to the cross. And as Jesus confirmed to Peter, this knowledge was given to him by the Father, and withheld from the other thief and those who would Mock Him.

You are free to reject this belief.

Jackson asked for a verse saying he accepted Christ before this. My point is that you weren't able to give him any such evidence. Jesus was well known, and it was very likely also well known that no charge could be made against Him, simply by the circumstances of his crucifixion, in fact. Pilate announced the same to the crowd.

It might be the case that man was a disciple, it probably isnt. It's speculation either way.

Some people, who think no one can be saved without H2O baptism, insist the thief was baptized beforehand. I was wondering if that's what you're thinking, too?

 

[Studyman]

Jackson asked for a verse saying he accepted Christ before this. My point is that you weren't able to give him any such evidence. Jesus was well known, and it was very likely also well known that no charge could be made against Him, simply by the circumstances of his crucifixion, in fact. Pilate announced the same to the crowd.

It might be the case that man was a disciple, it probably isnt. It's speculation either way.

Some people, who think no one can be saved without H2O baptism, insist the thief was baptized beforehand. I was wondering if that's what you're thinking, too?

I was pretty clear in by beliefs. Lots of people knew of the Christ but didn't believe. This man, like Peter, seemed to believe. Certainly different than the other thief and those who mocked him. Jesus told Peter this "belief" was granted to him by the Father. It make sense to me that the Thief was also "Granted" this same belief as well. At any rate, there seems to be to the story than what is recorded.

I don't believe that cutting skin off my private parts or being dunked in a body of water makes a person righteous, any more than killing a goat did. So no, I believe there is more to the story, but not "works" of some religious tradition.

 

[Jackson123]

I was pretty clear in by beliefs. Lots of people knew of the Christ but didn't believe. This man, like Peter, seemed to believe. Certainly different than the other thief and those who mocked him. Jesus told Peter this "belief" was granted to him by the Father. It make sense to me that the Thief was also "Granted" this same belief as well. At any rate, there seems to be to the story than what is recorded.

I don't believe that cutting skin off my private parts or being dunked in a body of water makes a person righteous, any more than killing a goat did. So no, I believe there is more to the story, but not "works" of some religious tradition.

The problem is how to prove this thief accept Jesus before the cross.

Yes this thief believe in Jesus like Peter, but is that happen before cross?

 

[lightbearer]

Lies like, for example, you are under Law, not grace?

Heavens!

It is a bad habit. Shame really. You just accused him of slander earlier and now you do the same.

 

[gb9]

The problem is how to prove this thief accept Jesus before the cross.

Yes this thief believe in Jesus like Peter, but is that happen before cross?

studyman does not have to prove anything. he has special knowledge that we do not have.

why earlier , he quoted Proverbs about the Law. so, now we have to accept Proverbs as part of the Torah.

so, see, when one has a make-it-up-as-you-go religion, as he does, he does not have to prove anything. he just plucks a few more verses out of context, writes in his opinions as facts, tells us we are deceived , keeps right on rolling along.

 

[Studyman]

studyman does not have to prove anything. he has special knowledge that we do not have.

why earlier , he quoted Proverbs about the Law. so, now we have to accept Proverbs as part of the Torah.

so, see, when one has a make-it-up-as-you-go religion, as he does, he does not have to prove anything. he just plucks a few more verses out of context, writes in his opinions as facts, tells us we are deceived , keeps right on rolling along.

I understand that Proverbs is not part of your gospel. Please continue sharing your spirit filled replies. They are so enlightening.

 

[Studyman]

one piece of information which may be beneficial is that the King James doesn't seem to use quotation marks.

if we use this translation, which I believe is used above in the post by Studyman, the quotes make a big difference

Then Jesus replied to them: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24&version=HCSB

note the use of the double quotes versus the single quotes, indicating who is saying what.

There are many places in the Bible which say the same warning Jesus gave us in Matt. 24 as I have shown. So I am not relying on one translation or one scripture.

 

[Studyman]

i might believe you if we haven't all been watching you try to do exactly what you slanderously accuse me of, for 6mo or more now.

Romans 2:1 does not destroy Romans 3:23. it does not destroy Romans 4:5. it does not destroy Romans 7:1. it does not destroy Galatians. it does not destroy Colossians. it does not destroy Philippians.

Nice dodge again.

Again you deflect, change the subject, omit, ignore. You never once address any of the scriptures I post or my understanding of them.

For 6 months you have been doing this. Refuse to answer questions, refuse to acknowledge responses to your posts. All I get is deflection and misdirection.

You just said;

Christ gave commandments. One of them is give to whoever asks of you without demanding it back.
That's not in the Law of Moses.

A little deceptive as to what Jesus really said, but it's close enough.

Matt. 5:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

Luke 6:
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good (Tell them the truth) to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

Even the premise of your question was deceptive and not honest with what Jesus trying to say. But even at that, your preaching that the Law and Prophets didn't teach what Jesus taught is simply untrue according to the scriptures.

Prov. 20:22 Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee.

Proverbs. 25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

Prov. 24:29 Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work.

Is. 50:5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Ex. 22:25 If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.
26 If thou at all take thy neighbour's raiment to pledge, thou shalt deliver it unto him by that the sun goeth down:

27 For that is his covering only, it is his raiment for his skin: wherein shall he sleep? and it shall come to pass, when he crieth unto me, that I will hear; for I am gracious.

Lev. 25:
35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.
36 Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.

37 Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.

Lev. 19:
33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

It is the Word of God which exposes your preaching Post, not me. You don't have to preach these falsehoods. But if you want to, that's a whole different program isn't it? If you don't want me posting scriptures you don't like, then stop with your little digs and quit replying to my posts.

Because I will forward the Word's of God every time.

 

[Dan_473]

There are many places in the Bible which say the same warning Jesus gave us in Matt. 24 as I have shown. So I am not relying on one translation or one scripture.

if you are referring to this warning, then I agree.

Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘I am the Messiah!’ They will fool many people.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew24&version=NIRV

 

[gb9]

another reason why I will never accept your religion- I would have to believe that Proverbs is law, when it is not even commands, just wise saying.

and that Solomon was a prophet, which of course is one of your ( wrong ) opinions , not backed up by any Scripture any more that gentiles were told to go to synagogue when that was not even written in the Acts 15 letter.

 

[Studyman]

The problem is how to prove this thief accept Jesus before the cross.

Yes this thief believe in Jesus like Peter, but is that happen before cross?

This verse is popular with folks who like to believe man can live as they want their entire life, and on their death bed, "accept Jesus" and they are saved and will be awarded eternal life. "Death bed Conversion" it's called.

I don't believe that was the message of the story. I believe this man "Repented", "turned to God" and did "works" Worthy of repentance even if these works were only acknowledging the Christ as who He was.

He Humbled Himself to the Son of God, he didn't even ask to be saved. That kind of humility come from God's Spirit, not from Mans. There is more to this story IMO.

But there is no more proof than what he said. That he knew Jesus didn't do anything to deserve this treatment, even though the entire mainstream preachers and those who followed them was yelling "crucify Him". It seems obvious there is more to the story. IMO.

 

[Jackson123]

This verse is popular with folks who like to believe man can live as they want their entire life, and on their death bed, "accept Jesus" and they are saved and will be awarded eternal life. "Death bed Conversion" it's called.

I don't believe that was the message of the story. I believe this man "Repented", "turned to God" and did "works" Worthy of repentance even if these works were only acknowledging the Christ as who He was.

He Humbled Himself to the Son of God, he didn't even ask to be saved. That kind of humility come from God's Spirit, not from Mans. There is more to this story IMO.

But there is no more proof than what he said. That he knew Jesus didn't do anything to deserve this treatment, even though the entire mainstream preachers and those who followed them was yelling "crucify Him". It seems obvious there is more to the story. IMO.

So you don't believe in death bed conversion. So how long before die, require for a man to repent to make him save?

Can you give a verse to support what your believe?

 

[Studyman]

if you are referring to this warning, then I agree.

Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘I am the Messiah!’ They will fool many people.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew24&version=NIRV

Yes, they will claim Jesus is the Messiah. It doesn't say;

Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘They are the Messiah!’ They will fool many people.

It says; Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘I (Jesus the Christ) am the Messiah!’ They will fool many people.

How many folks could you deceive today if you went on this forum telling folks you were Jesus?

But how many folks could a person deceive if they claimed to come in the Name of Christ, and they taught that Jesus was truly the Messiah?

How can I both "Come in Jesus' name, and also Claim I am Jesus?


This is why the Bible says to "Come out of her my people". By the great mercies of the Word which became Flesh, He, as he promised, has freed me from the deception and death which the Broad Path brings.

I'm not ashamed for trying to help other brothers to escape her as well. Even if I know I will be ridiculed and scorned for doing so.