Baptism and holy spirit

wanderer6059 · May 22, 2018

[h=1]John 20:21-23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)[/h][FONT=&quot]21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, their sins[a]have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

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lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Short Definition: I receive, take
Definition: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.
HELPS Word-studies
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983 /lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.

shrume · May 22, 2018

CS1 said:

Where?

(I may not be able to respond right away... Almost dinner time.)

shrume · May 22, 2018

wanderer6059 said:

[h=1]John 20:21-23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)[/h][FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]21 [/B][/FONT]So Jesus said to them again, “Peace [I]be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”[/I][I] [FONT=Arial][B]22 [/B][/FONT]And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “[B]Receive[/B] the Holy Spirit. [FONT=Arial][B]23 [/B][/FONT]If you forgive the sins of any, [I]their sins[[URL="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A21-23&version=NASB#fen-NASB-26891a"]a[/URL]]have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

[/I][/I][/FONT]

lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Short Definition: I receive, take
Definition: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.
HELPS Word-studies
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983 /lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.

Yep. Jesus was telling them how to receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2 clearly states that they received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost.

wanderer6059 · May 22, 2018

shrume said:

no, theological consensus is this is when the followers received the HS, also the ability to understand the scriptures.

[h=1]Luke 24:40-48 New Matthew Bible (NMB)[/h][FONT=&quot]40 And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they still could not believe for joy and wonderment, he said to them, Have you any food here? 42 And they gave him a piece of broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And he took it and ate it before them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]44 And he said to them, These are the things that I told to you while I was still with you: that all must be fulfilled that was written about me in the law of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]45 Then he opened their wits to understand the scriptures, 46 and said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for Christ to suffer, and to rise again from death the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, and must begin at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.[/FONT]

CS1 · May 22, 2018

shrume said:

1thess 1: 4 [FONT=&quot]Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

:[/FONT]5 [FONT=&quot]For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

:[/FONT]6 [FONT=&quot]And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

Rom 8:14

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]For as many as are [/FONT]led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

wanderer6059 · May 22, 2018

shrume said:

[FONT=&quot]10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance [d]without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]11 For behold what earnestness this very thing, this [e]godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter.

[/FONT]2 Cor 7:10-11

peacefulbeliever · May 22, 2018

wanderer6059 said:

They were born again of the Spirit - they did receive Holy Spirit but they did not MANIFEST - bring into evidence the new birth UNTIL the day of Pentecost when they spoke in tongues, i.e. one of the manifestations of the Spirit.

All believers when born again of the Spirit are baptized in holy Spirit, filled with holy Spirit . . . at the time we confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Rom. 10:9,10 . . . repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call. Acts 2:38,39

garee · May 22, 2018

posted in wrong OP

garee · May 22, 2018

shrume said:

Build ourselves up in the faith that comes from hearing God, is to edify God who gives us faith so that thenwe can believe him who works in us, with us to both will and do His good pleasure. (imputed righteousness) .No such thing as self-edifying. We edify him who lives in us, the power to believe is not from us .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

I would ask what does any Christian have that they have not freely received from Him who we edify? And if we have received it why would some say they have not and rather edify themself? Tongues is a sign to those who mock scripture who believe not prophecy (all things written in the law and the prophecy). Prophecy is for those who believe Christ.(no outward sign arranged for that) The sign is for those who rebel against the word of God it does not support Christians You are simply turning things upside down as if we require a sign before we can believe.

Perhaps reading slower might help.

Wherefore tongues arefor a sign, "not" to themthat "believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying servethnot for them that believe not,(no faith) but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians

Who is tongues a sign directed at as proof of something

shrume · May 22, 2018

CS1 said:

shrume said:

wanderer6059 said:

Please read the context:

8) For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.

9) Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

11) For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

It does not say that "the Holy Spirit creates a godly sorrow so the person can see thier need for Christ", as CS1 claimed. It says Paul made them sorry through his previous epistle to them (1 Corinthians). Also, 1st and 2nd Corinthians are written to "to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus", and "the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints". They were written to Christians, people already born again.

shrume · May 22, 2018

shrume said:

CS1 said:

Which one of those scripture states "The scriptures show us the Holy Spirit creates a godly sorrow so the person can see thier need for Christ."?

Rom 10:
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God is drawing all men, He wants all men to be saved, He is not willing that any should perish (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9).

People need to hear the Gospel so they can believe it. Once they hear, ANYONE can freely choose to believe, and become saved.

shrume · May 22, 2018

garee said:

Sorry, garee. I believe that several of the things you put forth directly contradict the scriptures. The Bible CLEARLY states that when a Christian speaks in tongues, it edifies him. I do not understand how you can flatly state "No such thing as self-edifying."

But I will answer your last question.

When an unbeliever sees the correct operation of the manifestation of speaking in tongues in a Christian meeting, it should be a sign to him. In order for someone to see and hear Christians speaking in tongues, Christians obviously need to be speaking in tongues (and interpreting).

JB2018 · May 23, 2018

Lewiz said:

There's no listing in scripture that the Spirit came upon Hannah.

But God used Eli the priest when he answered her.

1 Samuel 1:12-18 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now it came about, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli was watching her mouth. [SUP]13 [/SUP] As for Hannah, she was speaking in her heart, only her lips were moving, but her voice was not heard. So Eli thought she was drunk. [SUP]14 [/SUP] Then Eli said to her, "How long will you make yourself drunk? Put away your wine from you." [SUP]15 [/SUP] But Hannah replied, "No, my lord, I am a woman oppressed in spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have poured out my soul before the LORD. [SUP]16 [/SUP] "Do not consider your maidservant as a worthless woman, for I have spoken until now out of my great concern and provocation." [SUP]17 [/SUP] Then Eli answered and said, "Go in peace; and may the God of Israel grant your petition that you have asked of Him." [SUP]18 [/SUP] She said, "Let your maidservant find favor in your sight." So the woman went her way and ate, and her face was no longer sad.

Please, read the Book & use Book answers.

Please understand that people receives revelations of the scriptures....this is not my revelation but it makes sense.

Lewiz · May 23, 2018

JB2018 said:

Revelations outside the context of scripture are for false prophets.

Eisegesis is a sin.

garee · May 23, 2018

Sorry, garee. I believe that several of the things you put forth directly contradict the scriptures. The Bible CLEARLY states that when a Christian speaks in tongues, it edifies him. I do not understand how you can flatly state "No such thing as self-edifying."

I see that a little differently, brother.

Prophecy simply edifies God (the speaker) who puts his words and His thoughts on the lips of His prophets. The word that works in us.

Do not puff yourself by edifying our own self.It is God who makes us differ from one another. Even the apostles did not edify or puff their own selves up. Theyunderstood what they did have they received it from God. No such thing as self-edification. That’s more of aCatholicthing.

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For whomaketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 1 Corinthians 4

A sign to start edifying oneself?

We should begin at the foundation in Isaiah 28. We can look at four verses

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little Isaiah:28:10

In other words,compare the word of God, to the word of God, or faith to faith.. as hearing God through the scriptures. No oral traditions of men called fathers or Kings

For with stammering lips and another tongue will hespeak to this people.Isaiah:28:11

For with mocking lips and another language God will speak to all nations, mocking the Jews who refused to hear all things written in the law and the prophets. They would harden their hearts and not receive the Sabbath rest spoken of in Hebrews 4.

To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.28:12-13

To fall backward is an indication man is under the judgement of God. The admonition is to them (ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem)
Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Isiah 28:14

According to the law as it is written in 1Corinthians 14 as a way of mocking (stammering lips) in Isaiah 28 those who would not hear the word of God prophecy. God would bring new prophecy in all the other languages of the world and yet they would still not get under the authority of Gods' word (prophecy) which tongues God brining prophecy in other languages is a sign against those who believe not Prophecy (no faith).
There isno outward sign to those who do believe prophecy ..just a new softened heart and desire to hear prophecy and obey it. The sign is not to the believer. But is directed at the unbelieving Jew who requires a sign (not prophecy) before they will believe,

In the law it is written,(Isaiah 28) With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14

I

Its God speaking brining prophecy (the word of God) he understands all the languages in the world. He is the interpreter. Scripture is not of any private interpretation. As he spoke he gave the words meaning.

No sign gifts we walk by faith of our unseen God.

eternally-gratefull · May 23, 2018

boy this turned from a baptism thread to a tongues thread.. Talk about off topic.

wanderer6059 · May 23, 2018

peacefulbeliever said:

They were born again of the Spirit - they did receive Holy Spirit but they did not MANIFEST - bring into evidence the new birth UNTIL the day of Pentecost when they spoke in tongues, i.e. one of the manifestations of the Spirit.
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All believers when born again of the Spirit are baptized in holy Spirit, filled with holy Spirit . . . at the time we confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Rom. 10:9,10 . . . repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call. Acts 2:38,39

but from what i see that is not how it worked.

you clearly see here in John the Received, and latter in acts the were filled or baptized.

wanderer6059 · May 23, 2018

shrume said:

Please read the context:

8) For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.

9) Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

11) For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

It does not say that "the Holy Spirit creates a godly sorrow so the person can see thier need for Christ", as CS1 claimed. It says Paul made them sorry through his previous epistle to them (1 Corinthians). Also, 1st and 2nd Corinthians are written to "to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus", and "the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints". They were written to Christians, people already born again.

the letters were of the Spirit, divine origin.... and it was the Spirit at work in the word and the conviction in there own heart. that is why, and the only why it could be Godly sorrow... and the spirit operates in correction the same way as salvation.

CS1 · May 23, 2018

shrume said:

Which one of those scripture states "The scriptures show us the Holy Spirit creates a godly sorrow so the person can see thier need for Christ."?

Rom 10:
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God is drawing all men, He wants all men to be saved, He is not willing that any should perish (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9).

People need to hear the Gospel so they can believe it. Once they hear, ANYONE can freely choose to believe, and become saved.

which of thoses verses does not show the Spirit of God involved ?

notuptome · May 23, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

Bound to happen when many today have no depth of knowledge of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

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