GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?
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you know, when a person persistently refuses to give a straight answer to a simple question, it's not the person who keeps trying to get a response that's guilty of "deflection"
Philippians 3:1-11
is Paul listing a group of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ((if such confidence were possible)) or a list of things that damn the flesh?
Philippians 3:1-11
is Paul listing a group of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ((if such confidence were possible)) or a list of things that damn the flesh?
total diversion & non-answer, plus, dude it's already been thoroughly discredited many times.
from line one:
that's patently false. "the Law" means "the Law"
it doesn't mean 'man-made traditions'
so nothing else you say based on this lie matters. i read it, sure, but it's based on a lie, and you're deflecting from my point-blank, simple question about Philippians 3, which answer is plainly written right in front of you in that very chapter, in those very verses.
why are you trying to change the scripture?
you and PS both, do you just not like what the Bible says? or just really not understand it? so when y'all read your Bibles, PS thinks the LORD is Satan, and you think the Law is evil human traditions? like some kind of coping mechanism so you can tell yourself you're still a believer?
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Your premise of the question is based on a lie. You have said that Paul, as a Pharisee, was obedient to Gods Law, Blameless.
I have shown where your conclusion in this matter can only be made if you deny the Christ and His Words, deny Paul and his words, and deny the Law and the Prophets and their prophesy they made in regards to the Pharisees and whose Law they followed.
You have ignored the entire Bible to preserve this untruth. Why?
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Paul told me to "beware" of the religious people who do these things.
Now you want me to answer a question based on this falsehood.
If you would acknowledge the Word's of the Christ, and the Word's of Paul and the Prophesy's of the Prophets in regards to what Law the Pharisees followed, God's or theirs, then I would be more than happy to give you an A or B answer.
But since you deflect, re-direct, and refuse to accept the Word's of Christ, what am I to do?
No matter what questions you ask, not matter how many scriptures you reject, Paul never says He followed the Commandments of God, Blameless. The Law of the Pharisees, yes. But not God's Laws.
I admit, I don't know if you are purposefully trying to deceive people, or if you are simply deceived yourself.
But I do know for absolute sure, and have proved without a doubt with scriptures, that the Pharisees, including Paul before his conversion, were NOT following the Commandments of God, but had corrupted God's Laws and created their own.
This is solid Biblical fact that you can not deny using the scriptures available to us.
And since all you do is deflect and change the subject, instead of showing me in the Word where Jesus was wrong about them, I can only assume you know you are preaching a falsehood and are trying to convince others of the same.,
So I gave you your answer, based on the truth of the scriptures, not based on your error regarding the Pharisees and the Law they followed.
You are free to try and make the case that Jesus was wrong about the Pharisees, or that Paul lied about the Pharisees, or that the Prophets lied about the Pharisees.
Or, you could re-think your religious doctrines of the religions of the World and let Jesus teach you about what Law the Pharisees kept.
It's your choice.
I have shown where your conclusion in this matter can only be made if you deny the Christ and His Words, deny Paul and his words, and deny the Law and the Prophets and their prophesy they made in regards to the Pharisees and whose Law they followed.
You have ignored the entire Bible to preserve this untruth. Why?
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Paul told me to "beware" of the religious people who do these things.
Now you want me to answer a question based on this falsehood.
If you would acknowledge the Word's of the Christ, and the Word's of Paul and the Prophesy's of the Prophets in regards to what Law the Pharisees followed, God's or theirs, then I would be more than happy to give you an A or B answer.
But since you deflect, re-direct, and refuse to accept the Word's of Christ, what am I to do?
No matter what questions you ask, not matter how many scriptures you reject, Paul never says He followed the Commandments of God, Blameless. The Law of the Pharisees, yes. But not God's Laws.
I admit, I don't know if you are purposefully trying to deceive people, or if you are simply deceived yourself.
But I do know for absolute sure, and have proved without a doubt with scriptures, that the Pharisees, including Paul before his conversion, were NOT following the Commandments of God, but had corrupted God's Laws and created their own.
This is solid Biblical fact that you can not deny using the scriptures available to us.
And since all you do is deflect and change the subject, instead of showing me in the Word where Jesus was wrong about them, I can only assume you know you are preaching a falsehood and are trying to convince others of the same.,
So I gave you your answer, based on the truth of the scriptures, not based on your error regarding the Pharisees and the Law they followed.
You are free to try and make the case that Jesus was wrong about the Pharisees, or that Paul lied about the Pharisees, or that the Prophets lied about the Pharisees.
Or, you could re-think your religious doctrines of the religions of the World and let Jesus teach you about what Law the Pharisees kept.
It's your choice.
Studyman,
I believe this is known as attacking the question.
It is true that some questions are invalid.
For example, if someone asked me Is this the first time you've been pregnant?
In this case, I don't believe posthuman has asked an invalid question.
But if you do, why not simply state that up front the first time the question is asked?
(Perhaps you did and I missed it?)
I believe this is known as attacking the question.
It is true that some questions are invalid.
For example, if someone asked me Is this the first time you've been pregnant?
In this case, I don't believe posthuman has asked an invalid question.
But if you do, why not simply state that up front the first time the question is asked?
(Perhaps you did and I missed it?)
I believe there are some fundamental truths in the Scriptures which are rejected by "many" who come in Christ's name.
One such truth is that the Pharisees did not obey God, strive to follow God, Love God with all their heart, were trying to "earn" Salvation by following God, etc. I believe this insidious lie is the foundation of many false doctrines.
Zechariahs followed God's Commandments, but Saul and the Pharisees did not. This fundamental truth can be proven again and again with scriptures and there are only a couple of sentences of Paul that can even be twisted enough to counter the entire rest of the Bible.
Post's question was just like the question "did you ever stop beating your wife". No matter what the answer, it would support the premise, which in our case would be a lie. (I hope in your case,
I know in my case)
Let's establish the truth about the Law the Pharisees followed, which Jesus said were "Commandments of men". The preaching that the Pharisees were trying to follow God's Laws is so old, so settled in the doctrines of the Mainstream Christian church that it is difficult for people to accept anything different. But it wasn't any different in the Days of Paul where "Commandments of men" had been taught as Law for centuries.
The truth is the truth. Our belief or unbelief doesn't change anything.
One such truth is that the Pharisees did not obey God, strive to follow God, Love God with all their heart, were trying to "earn" Salvation by following God, etc. I believe this insidious lie is the foundation of many false doctrines.
Zechariahs followed God's Commandments, but Saul and the Pharisees did not. This fundamental truth can be proven again and again with scriptures and there are only a couple of sentences of Paul that can even be twisted enough to counter the entire rest of the Bible.
Post's question was just like the question "did you ever stop beating your wife". No matter what the answer, it would support the premise, which in our case would be a lie. (I hope in your case,
I know in my case)Let's establish the truth about the Law the Pharisees followed, which Jesus said were "Commandments of men". The preaching that the Pharisees were trying to follow God's Laws is so old, so settled in the doctrines of the Mainstream Christian church that it is difficult for people to accept anything different. But it wasn't any different in the Days of Paul where "Commandments of men" had been taught as Law for centuries.
The truth is the truth. Our belief or unbelief doesn't change anything.
Studyman,
"Post's question was just like the question "did you ever stop beating your wife".
No matter what the answer, it would support the premise, which in our case would be a lie."
if you honestly thought that, why not simply state that up front the first time the question is asked?
(Perhaps you did and I missed it?)
"Post's question was just like the question "did you ever stop beating your wife".
No matter what the answer, it would support the premise, which in our case would be a lie."
if you honestly thought that, why not simply state that up front the first time the question is asked?
(Perhaps you did and I missed it?)
There were lots of false teachers in Christ's day and those cults have continued into the present and been discussed endlessly on the forums. Still people hold to their false beliefs as we can see currently. Put it this way it is far easier to drag someone down that it is to lift them up, and so it is with the truth. I have come to think that maybe the devil loves this bickering as it allows him to get a foothold. Satan is very subtle and I feel we need to build each other up, looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith rather that scrambling around in the muck heaps of the cults.
There were lots of false teachers in Christ's day and those cults have continued into the present and been discussed endlessly on the forums. Still people hold to their false beliefs as we can see currently. Put it this way it is far easier to drag someone down that it is to lift them up, and so it is with the truth. I have come to think that maybe the devil loves this bickering as it allows him to get a foothold. Satan is very subtle and I feel we need to build each other up, looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith rather that scrambling around in the muck heaps of the cults.
I think the first point to remedy this situation is to look at our own DOINGS instead of accusing and blaming others... and in doing so I have found that before labelling another as 'the man of sin' we should consider the SELF being a man or woman of sin....so we don't have much to boast about - do we ?
The only time we should 'stand sure is when we quote the 'Words of GOD...NOT our own !
Today's understanding of the words "confidence in the flesh" leads us away from the path the Lord wants us to walk. Today most people in the world do have confidence in fleshly things like spas, jewelry, makeup and no confidence in Godly things. Scripture shows us as it pictured a man telling other men he was praying instead of speaking to the Lord. But when church people condemn all God had led His people to do to worship Him in true worship, and calling it confidence in the flesh it is going too far.
It is a fine line to be drawn between saying ways of worship is wrong and saying that it is the worship that is important, not the way of worship.
It is a fine line to be drawn between saying ways of worship is wrong and saying that it is the worship that is important, not the way of worship.
No. They Sought it not by the Faith but by works of the Law. The Faith of Christ is the Love for and Faith in and of GOD, and the Love of our Fellow man. Without this we can keep all the Book of the Law and the Decalogue and not be saved because our hearts are not right.
No they were following the letter of the Law and not the heart of it; LOVE. GOD is LOVE and through Christ as HE is so are we in this Word. This is the foundation of our Faith. The Faith of Christ. Through this we establish the Law. For the LAW depends on LOVE.
Only if their hearts were right. Because their hearts were not right they did not recognize he whom they were seeking. Nor were they truly following that which Moses shared. Worse yet as you proclaim and history teaches they added to it.
No; Paul converted from the Letter of the Law to the heart of it; LOVE through the unity given to him to Christ. For he was dead nevertheless he lived yet not him but Christ liveth in him and the life he then lived he lived by the Faith of Christ.
This gift is available to us all. For the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; the book of the Law) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; the book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Book of the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)
For Christ (the word; the Book of the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the (letter of the ) law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:4 KJV)
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law (the Letter). For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; (Having no Faith; no heart transformation)
(Rom 9:31-32 KJV)
Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; For it is HE that works in us to both will and do HIS good pleasure. For we are the Temple of the MOST HIGH GOD; the Body of Christ HIS Church. For which a man shall leave father and mother and cleave; and they two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery but I speak of Christ and His Church.
(2Co 3:3-5 KJV)
Amen!
No they were following the letter of the Law and not the heart of it; LOVE. GOD is LOVE and through Christ as HE is so are we in this Word. This is the foundation of our Faith. The Faith of Christ. Through this we establish the Law. For the LAW depends on LOVE.
Only if their hearts were right. Because their hearts were not right they did not recognize he whom they were seeking. Nor were they truly following that which Moses shared. Worse yet as you proclaim and history teaches they added to it.
No; Paul converted from the Letter of the Law to the heart of it; LOVE through the unity given to him to Christ. For he was dead nevertheless he lived yet not him but Christ liveth in him and the life he then lived he lived by the Faith of Christ.
This gift is available to us all. For the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; the book of the Law) down from above
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; the book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Book of the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)For Christ (the word; the Book of the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the (letter of the ) law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:4 KJV)
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law (the Letter). For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; (Having no Faith; no heart transformation)
(Rom 9:31-32 KJV)
Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; For it is HE that works in us to both will and do HIS good pleasure. For we are the Temple of the MOST HIGH GOD; the Body of Christ HIS Church. For which a man shall leave father and mother and cleave; and they two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery but I speak of Christ and His Church.
(2Co 3:3-5 KJV)
Amen!
He is determined to label genuine believers (who disagree with him) as Pharisees, who have created our own Laws, our own righteousness and he places us all in the same boat of unbelief.
Yet he considers himself a believer, whose righteousness has exceeded the righteousness of the Pharisees, which is his own righteousness of following God's Commandments, blamelessly. How many times have we heard that from LGF?
The righteousness that Jesus was talking about is the same righteousness that the apostle Paul was talking about in Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
The Bible continues to be under attack by SDA's, Hebrew roots and spin off groups who play the same game in salvation as other false movements of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to the Gospel. Even though they deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Their doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)
Yet he considers himself a believer, whose righteousness has exceeded the righteousness of the Pharisees, which is his own righteousness of following God's Commandments, blamelessly. How many times have we heard that from LGF?
The righteousness that Jesus was talking about is the same righteousness that the apostle Paul was talking about in Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
The Bible continues to be under attack by SDA's, Hebrew roots and spin off groups who play the same game in salvation as other false movements of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to the Gospel. Even though they deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Their doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)