Does God Sever Fellowship With Us When We Sin?

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Ralph- said:
The manifest goodness of God in your salvation is dependent on your obedience, specifically your obedience to treat people as God expects you to treat them (according to whatever your level of growth in Christ makes you accountable and responsible for).

Just as the children of God, the Israelites, could not enter into, nor stay in, the manifest blessing of the promised land because of disobedience so we also will be shut out from the manifest blessings of the promises if we choose to disobey God.
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Works salvation preaching right here peoples..
 
dcontroversal said:
He also implied that budman pushes a live as you choose and sin all you want lifestyle which is a flat lie!
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He said the believer CAN do that and they will still be saved. But he said they should not.

John on the other hand says don't be deceived, the person who does that is not born again and belongs to the devil:


"make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."-1 John 3:7-10


So we can plainly see that you can NOT live any way you choose, if you decided to do that, and still be saved. Because to do that is to show that you do not belong to Christ in salvation.

For us saved people, as long as the word of the gospel continues in us and doesn't get uprooted from our hearts in unbelief we will not be practicing sin but will be growing up into our new lives in Christ.



So let's review so this doesn't escape anybody:

the one who practices sin is of the devil

No one who is born of God practices sin

anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God

nor the one who does not love his brother


"Make sure no one deceives you", people! Read the plain words of the Bible.
 
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Adstar said:
Works salvation preaching right here peoples..
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Read carefully to what I said...
Ralph- said:
The manifest goodness of God in your salvation...
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I wasn't saying you get salvation by obeying God. When you obey God you dwell in the manifest blessings of your salvation--peace, and joy, and abundance of 'zoe' life. When you don't obey God you do not get to enjoy the manifest blessings of your salvation and you dwell in emptiness of spirit.

This has nothing to do with working for justification/salvation. It has everything to do with if you are going to enjoy the spiritual benefits and abundance of your salvation or not. The benefits are conditioned on your obedience to God. Justification itself is conditioned on your trusting/believing.
 
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Ralph- said:
I said I don't excuse my sin.
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you can say it all you want, it does. Ot make it true, the fact you claim yu still sin, yet sin does not cause you t lost salvation suggests otherwise, because in reality you believe the same as they do. The fact is if they are justifying sin, so are you, period,

Hypergrace doctrine justifies habitual sin in the name of grace. It says there is nothing grace can not cover, even going back to unbelief. Read the quote I posted.
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read which quote? The quote from a person wh yu have failed to prove follows the hypergrace doctrine? How can i believe you when are you not being sincere? Budman does not follow pastor prince and his hypergrace gospel.
John, on the other hand, says the person who is living in the habit and practice of sin is not saved. Hypergrace vehemently disagrees with that, even though John's words are the plain words of scripture.
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John says they were never saved, he says whoever does 5is has never seen Gid or known him, everyone her i know who followes hypergrace trachers agrees wih this premis, yet you do not. Why is that?


Here is a fact, the only difference in reality between you and me (and hypergrace) is that you think we can lose faith in God, we believe that a person who truly had faith would never stop believing because God will never give us a reason to stop trusting.

So in reality, based on belief or lack of belief (only,no sin or works are involved because as you say, you do not believe we earn salvation bu works, and you claim sin does not cause your u to lose salvation), we either are all excusing sin, or non of us are, you cant have it both ways, i know people who believe as you, who i know are saved, we just disagree on this issue of loss of faith, we dont argue because we both agree, that person will not be in heaven. But i cant do that with you, because unlike them you focus on sin and works to much, so in your view, it is not just a faith/lack of faith issue.
 
UnderGrace said:
I do think eternal assurance is the heart of the gospel so yes something to stand firm on.:)
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Amen, if we do not have faith in security in christ, what is our faith in? Certainly not christ, then how could we be saved apart from faith in christ?
 
joaniemarie said:
I agree with you UnderGrace and security in Christ is what I've also learned to stand firm on and was totally weak and unproductive without that wonderful amazing security. :) But trust is something we learn as we go. I see many things that Christians say who do not believe in eternal security to be RIGHT on but in other areas they are off.

But so are those who believe in eternal security. Those believers also get off on tangents too. We each have our human weaknesses. We can all get petty and silly and argue about things that only the Holy Spirit can reveal. I heard a preacher once discuss this issue.

He said it's like arguing with a young child about how he should have a grown beard by now and condemning him for not having a long beard yet. That's how we are with other Christians.

"WHERE'S YOUR BEARD!!!!??? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!!??? ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING?? WHERE'S YOUR BEARD?!!

A person can argue all they want from day to night but it will not form inside the other a grown up mature beard. :)


And in all seriousness., I don't see how anyone can live joyfully and peacefully when they are in a "precarious" situation.
Don't you just love words!!! Since losing my spell check., I've had to use the dictionary more. :)
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Remember, the gospel is the issue, what we believe concerning end times, if spiritual gifting, or age of the earth does not matter in the eternal perspective, what we believe as far as the gospel is serious. As paul said, if ANYONE teach a different gospel, let them be accursed.

There is one gospel if you have two people placing their faith in different gospels, at least one is in trouble (assuming the other has it right)
 
Ralph- said:
But you also believe that sin does not cause you to lose salvation, so you excuse sin too, then.

Think things through before you post.
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You just provd my point, if do, then so do you (do you ever read what your responding to?

eternally-gratefull said:
you can say it all you want, it does. Ot make it true, the fact you claim yu still sin, yet sin does not cause you t lost salvation suggests otherwise, because in reality you believe the same as they do. The fact is if they are justifying sin, so are you, period,
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You also just prove how tricky and sly you are by not completed the quote of my words, whcih said the very thing you insinuatd, as if i did. T believe that myself.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
You just provd my point, if do, then so do you (do you ever read what your responding to?



You also just prove how tricky and sly you are by not completed the quote of my words, whcih said the very thing you insinuatd, as if i did. T believe that myself.
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I do not excuse sin by saying to myself when I'm tempted to sin, "I can do this because of God's grace."

Do you?


Hypergrace/Freegrace doctrine says you can.
 
UnderGrace said:
It does get rather tiresome, the accusation that is.:(
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I posted a quote describing Hypergrace/Freegrace theology. Did you miss it?

That makes about three times I've posted here at CC.


And like I said, debates I've had with others who subscribe to that theology have said the very same things that are in what I posted, so I know the article is not unfairly slanted or inaccurate. Besides, it quotes Charles Stanley directly. You do know who Charles Stanley is, don't you?
 
UnderGrace said:
It does get rather tiresome, the accusation that is.:(
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If someone really wants to know, it's easily researched. What's tiresome is providing asked-for evidence to some who put their hands over their ears and say "LA LA LA LA..." so that they don't hear it, and then pretend later to have never received what they asked for.
 
Yes I did miss it,

Tell me the number of the post.

What is Grace to you?

I will be back:)

Ralph- said:
I posted a quote describing Hypergrace/Freegrace theology. Did you miss it?

That makes about three times I've posted here at CC.


And like I said, debates I've had with others who subscribe to that theology have said the very same things that are in what I posted, so I know the article is not unfairly slanted or inaccurate. Besides, it quotes Charles Stanley directly. You do know who Charles Stanley is, don't you?
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Do you know what is God's grace?

It does not say that.:(

Please do not lump hyper grace and free grace they are not the same.

Ralph- said:
I do not excuse sin by saying to myself when I'm tempted to sin, "I can do this because of God's grace."

Do you?


Hypergrace/Freegrace doctrine says you can.
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