Loss of salvation.

[eternally-gratefull]

News Flash!! I shared my viewpoint as well! I know it may not have as much credence since you disagree, but I think I'm entitled to give it.

Amen, i was going to say his, but figured it was not worth it, glad you did, snce your the one who was accused,

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

HA!! LOL!! I seriously almost spit my coffee as I read this! To put LEFT and me in the same sentence is beyond a joke!

You were gone from here for a couple of yrs. Not sure why, but I remember the vitriol you had toward those that believed in Grace and eternal security back then.

For a while, upon your return, it seemed the Lord had softened your heart, as your demeanor, and correspondence was much improved. I was glad to see that. Hoping you don't revert.

A major thorn was removed from CC. That's probably the main difference in my more laid back attitude. Also being fully aware of the devices used by many false accusers here who are always trying to stir up mischief makes me wise as a serpent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A major thorn was removed from CC. That's probably the main difference in my more laid back attitude. Also being fully aware of the devices used by many false accusers here who are always trying to stir up mischief makes me wise as a serpent.

Your right, a major thorn was removed, but only not the thorn you think of,

and sadly, you did not learn yourself how to stop falsly accusing others. Your still doing the same thing the “thorn” who is no longer here did, they did not learn t stop, we can just pray you can

 

[LW97]

No what the verse is saying...."And if by grace, then is it no more of works..." You have one or the other, By Grace of God or By the Works of Man, Your choice of course.

Yeah, that's what I said.

 

[PennEd]

A major thorn was removed from CC. That's probably the main difference in my more laid back attitude. Also being fully aware of the devices used by many false accusers here who are always trying to stir up mischief makes me wise as a serpent.

So you left c.c. for several yrs because of doctrinal disputes of a single person? Wow! Talk about living rent free in someone's head!

Who's the lefty now? Lol

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Actually, it's the church that has a dangerous infatuation with Gnosticism. We see it in the church's careless disregard for holiness and them thinking that doesn't matter in any way shape or form to their eternal fate, not knowing that how they act shows whether or not they are really saved.

It would seem that the church would want to fully know what the gnostic heresy was so that they don't repeat it, but the exact opposite seems to be the case. Now why is that?

 

[BillG]

Thank you, but this doesn't address the subject of this thread.



Actually, it's the church that has a dangerous infatuation with Gnosticism. We see it in the church's careless disregard for holiness and them thinking that doesn't matter in any way shape or form to their eternal fate, not knowing that how they act shows whether or not they are really saved.




I'll just refer you to the last remaining vestiges of the traditional once saved always saved argument: 'The person who is not living for God is not saved'. Have you switched and now that is a works gospel?

Ralph,

You have to get over this infatuation that if people have doctrinally different views to you it does not mean they have no regard for holiness.

The church does not have a dangerous infatuation with Gnosticism.

Those who keep accusing others of Gnosticism are the ones infatuated by it. They spend so much time accusing others of walking in it just because they have a difference of opinion.

There is not one person that I have seen on this forum promote "We can do all we want as it does not matter any more"

Got Questions

[FONT=&quot]Gnosticism was perhaps the most dangerous heresy that threatened the early church during the first three centuries. Influenced by such philosophers as Plato, Gnosticism is based on two false premises. First, it espouses a dualism regarding spirit and matter. Gnostics assert that matter is inherently evil and spirit is good. As a result of this presupposition, Gnostics believe anything done in the body, even the grossest sin, has no meaning because real life exists in the spirit realm only.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Second, Gnostics claim to possess an elevated knowledge, a “higher truth” known only to a certain few. Gnosticism comes from the Greek word gnosis which means “to know.” Gnostics claim to possess a higher knowledge, not from the Bible, but acquired on some mystical higher plane of existence. Gnostics see themselves as a privileged class elevated above everybody else by their higher, deeper knowledge of God.
[/FONT]
You are being disingenuous to people by accusing them off having no regard for sanctification.
You are being disingenuous to the church as a whole.
You lump all denomination into one basket.

 

[BillG]

It would seem that the church would want to fully know what the gnostic heresy was so that they don't repeat it, but the exact opposite seems to be the case. Now why is that?

Rather than accuse people of being gnostics why not try to explain why.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It would seem that the church would want to fully know what the gnostic heresy was so that they don't repeat it, but the exact opposite seems to be the case. Now why is that?

I think most churches know what it is, you on the other hand, i am not so sure, as bill said, the only people who seem to be having trouble with it are thise trying to call others gnostic heretics, like you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rather than accuse people of being gnostics why not try to explain why.

Thank you, maybe he will listen to you,

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Rather than accuse people of being gnostics why not try to explain why.

Uh I can't recall calling anyone a gnostic. Can you?

 

[Magenta]

A major thorn was removed from CC. That's probably the main difference in my more laid back attitude. Also being fully aware of the devices used by many false accusers here who are always trying to stir up mischief makes me wise as a serpent.

I always thought you dealt quite fairly with those who disagreed with you, and those with whom you disagreed. You were not prone to resorting to personal attacks, preferring instead to stick with the facts regarding Scripture and the history of the church. It did get heated simply because there was an apparent gaping chasm between what you were presenting and what others were presenting.

 

[BillG]

Careful. Your first question is getting into gnosticism, i.e., salvation by one's spiritual nature rather than by obedience to the faith.

Regarding your second question, no.

1st one....

 

[BillG]

Let's hope not. I was just drawing a line between what the Christian gnostics believed and the faith.

2nd one......

 

[BillG]

It would be a good for everyone to examine their beliefs to discern whether they believe

1. Christians are saved because they have been born again as eternal spiritual beings who cannot be lost no matter what they do in life
2. Christians are saved because they remain in Christ through a living faith that does the will of GOD

#1 is what the Christian-gnostic heretics believed.

3rd one......

 

[UnderGrace]

Thank you EG

Your right, a major thorn was removed, but only not the thorn you think of,

and sadly, you did not learn yourself how to stop falsly accusing others. Your still doing the same thing the “thorn” who is no longer here did, they did not learn t stop, we can just pray you can

 

[UnderGrace]

Thank you BillG!

This whole gnostic slander does and did cause a lot of strife.

3rd one......

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There is not one person that I have seen on this forum promote "We can do all we want as it does not matter any more"

What you described I call front-door anti-nomianism. Back-door anti-nomianism doesn't teach doing anything is OK, but it does teach that behavior can't affect salvation. So they are effectively the same things. One is just more blatant than the other.

Formally, the former is called libertine anti-nomianism, and the latter is called Sandemanian anti-nomianism, named after Robert Sandeman who in the 18th century taught a heretical doctrine of grace in which behavior was irrelevant to salvation.

I call it back-door anti-nomianism because it's like saying, "I don't care who you bring home with you, just use the back door".

 

[BillG]

It would seem that the church would want to fully know what the gnostic heresy was so that they don't repeat it, but the exact opposite seems to be the case. Now why is that?

The above is your response to Ralph's post below

Actually, it's the church that has a dangerous infatuation with Gnosticism. We see it in the church's careless disregard for holiness and them thinking that doesn't matter in any way shape or form to their eternal fate, not knowing that how they act shows whether or not they are really saved.

So by inference you agree with Ralph.

I therefore assume that you agree with Ralph that the church has no regard for holiness.

So anyone who disagrees with you are in affect gnostics.

Also can you quote anyone here who promtes we can do what we want when we come to faith, because what we do in fact does not matter.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I always thought you dealt quite fairly with those who disagreed with you, and those with whom you disagreed. You were not prone to resorting to personal attacks, preferring instead to stick with the facts regarding Scripture and the history of the church. It did get heated simply because there was an apparent gaping chasm between what you were presenting and what others were presenting.

Bless you for the feedback. That was exactly how I strove to conduct myself, so it's good to hear that's how you perceived it.