The Rapture

tanakh · May 7, 2018

One thing is missing from the Preterist Debate and that is Partial Preterism. They are those who believe that much of the Prophecies were fulfilled in the first century but still believe in a second coming and judgement. Full Preterist need to explain why there is a large number who believe this if as they say they have the correct interpretation of scripture. They also need to explain why most of the Church has believed in a second coming for centuries

soberxp · May 7, 2018

tanakh said:

don't ask me why and how
the second coming of Jesus http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/166353-nomatter-what-u-believe-me-not.html

preston39 · May 7, 2018

PlainWord said:

P....,

Why do you limit your assertion from Daniel...only?

Remember there are 66 books in the KJV Bible.

PlainWord · May 7, 2018

Exegete said:

Correct, the word, "rapture" is an invented word. The word "harpazo" is used which means to "Seize, carry away by force," "Seize on, claim for one's self eagerly," or to "snatch out or away."

Harpazo is found 13 times in the NT. Here they are:

Mat 11:12

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take (Harpazo) it by force.

Mat 13:9 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away (Harpazo) that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

John 6:15

When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force (Harpazo), to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

John 10:12

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them (Harpazo), and scattereth the sheep.

John 10:28-29:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck (Harpazo) them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck (Harpazo) them out of my Father's hand.

Acts 8:39

And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (Harpazo) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 23:10

And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force (Harpazo) from among them, and to bring him into the castle.

In none of the above were these people Harpazo into heaven and changed from a mortal to a heavenly being. Now in fairness, the next two passages has Paul taken to the third heaven, but he didn't stay there.

2 Cor 12:2

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up (Harpazo) to the third heaven.

2 Cor 12:4

How that he was caught up (Harpazo) into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1 Thes 4:17

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (Harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out (Harpazo) of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by

the flesh.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up (Harpazo) unto God, and to his throne.

This last usage, clearly Christ was "harpazo" to heaven as was the case twice with Paul. Having said that, the key is not harpazo, it's where the person or thing is being "harpazo" to. In the case of 1 Thes 4, those remaining were harpazo "in the air." "The air" (aer) is used 7 times and Paul used it in discussing the spiritual dimension in Eph 2:2.

Thus, I am inclined to agree that the 1 Thes 4:17 passage is discussing a remnant being taken away to meet the Lord in the spiritual realm. This section of scripture (1 Thes 4:13-18) has always been taken by the church until the 19th century to be describing the resurrection, which happens first. Then upon death, those who were still alive, or yet to be born, would join them when they died. This view would agree with Heb 9:27, where the notion of living saints being caught up to heaven to stay is in conflict with Heb 9:27.

But your point is well taken. We should always be spiritually ready in our hearts and minds, fully repentant and living righteously, not because of any harpazo but because we never know which day on earth will be our last.

PlainWord · May 7, 2018

preston39 said:

Yes, and in none of them is the literal destruction of the literal heaven and planet earth discussed. To the contrary, three places tell us the Earth abides forever. The places where "heaven and earth's" destruction appear to be foretold like in Mat 24:35 and 2 Pet 3:10 are discussing the destruction of Israel, and not the planet. This destruction and desolation of Israel happened 66-73 AD highlighted by the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD.

When God divinely destroys a country (always by using a pagan foreign army) this destruction is referred to as the destruction of "heaven and earth." It is apocalyptic symbolism and is not to be taken literally. It is a figure of speech. Not understanding ancient figures of speech has lead to so much misunderstanding in today's church.

There are four examples of the "heaven and earth" being destroyed in the 6th century BC, yet we are still here. The first example is the first desolation of Israel at the hands of the Babylonians in 597 BC as found in Jer 4:23-26:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

Notice this figurative language mirrors that of the planet at the start of creation (Gen 1:2)? The prophet is saying that Judah is going to be utterly destroyed and left desolate as if there was no creation. Jeremiah's ministry began in 626 BC, 31 years before King Neb destroyed Judah thus his prophesy was relevant to those of his day and was fulfilled in his lifetime. So in Mat 24, Jesus is using the same apocalyptic imagery, well known to His disciples, to tell them what was going to happen again to Israel in the very near future as this was the topic of Mat 24.

Please don't doubt me on this. The wrath of Christ came in 70 AD and that was the end of "the heavens and earth" in this context. There is no future prediction of the end of literal heaven and earth.

PlainWord · May 7, 2018

tanakh said:

Isn't it interesting that the disciples all looked forward to the coming of Christ (Parousia)? It's all they could talk about, especially Paul. This was for good reason. Christ promised He was coming back to THAT very same generation. All them hoped they would still be alive to see it, although Paul hinted that he wouldn't make it. In fact, in Mat 16, Jesus promised that some of those standing before Him right then and there would witness His return.

Move ahead to the very earliest of the church fathers (after the first century). Let's take Polycarp (writing in 150-160 AD) for example. He doesn't breathe a word about Christ returning. Instead he is looking forward to being with the Lord via martyrdom.

Now look at Ignatius of Antioch, writing before Polycarp (105-115 AD). Same thing. In fact, Ignatius states that the resurrection already happened and was in (his) past. In speaking of the disciples, he says this:

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians

Chapter IX.-Let Us Live with Christ.

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death-whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith,and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master-how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead.

Christ's presence returned in the first century, just as He promised. Any other view calls Christ a liar - just saying - not trying to be bunt or offensive. The resurrection also happened then and all saints were removed from Hades. When we die, we go straight to heaven. No waiting. That's the big difference since Christ returned.

I am not saying He won't come back again, but if He does it will be a third time since the Cross, not the second time.

preston39 · May 7, 2018

PlainWord said:

Correct, the word, "rapture" is an invented word. The word "harpazo" is used which means to "Seize, carry away by force," "Seize on, claim for one's self eagerly," or to "snatch out or away."

Harpazo is found 13 times in the NT. Here they are:

Mat 11:12

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take (Harpazo) it by force.

Mat 13:9 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away (Harpazo) that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

John 6:15

When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force (Harpazo), to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

John 10:12

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them (Harpazo), and scattereth the sheep.

John 10:28-29:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck (Harpazo) them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck (Harpazo) them out of my Father's hand.

Acts 8:39

And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (Harpazo) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 23:10

And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force (Harpazo) from among them, and to bring him into the castle.

In none of the above were these people Harpazo into heaven and changed from a mortal to a heavenly being. Now in fairness, the next two passages has Paul taken to the third heaven, but he didn't stay there.

2 Cor 12:2

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up (Harpazo) to the third heaven.

2 Cor 12:4

How that he was caught up (Harpazo) into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1 Thes 4:17

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (Harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out (Harpazo) of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by

the flesh.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up (Harpazo) unto God, and to his throne.

This last usage, clearly Christ was "harpazo" to heaven as was the case twice with Paul. Having said that, the key is not harpazo, it's where the person or thing is being "harpazo" to. In the case of 1 Thes 4, those remaining were harpazo "in the air." "The air" (aer) is used 7 times and Paul used it in discussing the spiritual dimension in Eph 2:2.

Thus, I am inclined to agree that the 1 Thes 4:17 passage is discussing a remnant being taken away to meet the Lord in the spiritual realm. This section of scripture (1 Thes 4:13-18) has always been taken by the church until the 19th century to be describing the resurrection, which happens first. Then upon death, those who were still alive, or yet to be born, would join them when they died. This view would agree with Heb 9:27, where the notion of living saints being caught up to heaven to stay is in conflict with Heb 9:27.

But your point is well taken. We should always be spiritually ready in our hearts and minds, fully repentant and living righteously, not because of any harpazo but because we never know which day on earth will be our last.

P...,

Had man used Harpazo instead of rapture someone would have questioned why use that instead of rapture.
Also I didn't see your list including the word harpazo relating to Christ, Enoch or Elijah rapture. But, the use of taking up ...rapture....is related.

I am trying to get your salient point and what it means to us vs rapture. Perhaps you could detail that for us.
.

PlainWord · May 7, 2018

preston39 said:

You won't find Harpazo in the OT as it is a Greek word. I'm making several points. The idea of a living person being taken to the heaven is not a completely invalid concept as you point out. I cited all the examples of harpazo in the KJV. I did not find a case related to Christ's ascension. Perhaps you can cite the verse in mind and I'll check the Greek.

1) Hebrews 9:27 makes clear that it is appointed for all men to die, then comes the judgment. This verse is immediately followed by Heb 9:28 which relates to Christ appearing a second time for salvation. The idea of Christ forcefully removing Christians off to heaven is not found in Heb 9:27-28, rather the idea that all must die first is taught.

2) The 1 Thes 4 so-called "rapture" passage implies that the resurrection takes place followed by a catching up of saints in the air. Not just any saints but rather saints who were still alive at the resurrection. It isn't clear that those saints must die first. On the surface 1 Thes 4:17 and Heb 9:27 appear to be in conflict.

I am suggesting to resolve the conflict perhaps Paul was attempting to say that the resurrection comes first so that all dead saints get to go to heaven and be with Christ before any living saint does, then when the living saint dies, he is caught up to heaven to be with them and the Lord. Since there was clearly a major resurrection in the first century, my suggestion makes sense and harmonizes scripture. Since the first century, no Christian goes to Hades any more. Instead, they immediately go to Heaven as recorded by many witnesses of near-death experiences.

CS1 · May 8, 2018

PlainWord said:

You won't find Harpazo in the OT as it is a Greek word. I'm making several points. The idea of a living person being taken to the heaven is not a completely invalid concept as you point out. I cited all the examples of harpazo in the KJV. I did not find a case related to Christ's ascension. Perhaps you can cite the verse in mind and I'll check the Greek.

1) Hebrews 9:27 makes clear that it is appointed for all men to die, then comes the judgment. This verse is immediately followed by Heb 9:28 which relates to Christ appearing a second time for salvation. The idea of Christ forcefully removing Christians off to heaven is not found in Heb 9:27-28, rather the idea that all must die first is taught.

2) The 1 Thes 4 so-called "rapture" passage implies that the resurrection takes place followed by a catching up of saints in the air. Not just any saints but rather saints who were still alive at the resurrection. It isn't clear that those saints must die first. On the surface 1 Thes 4:17 and Heb 9:27 appear to be in conflict.

I am suggesting to resolve the conflict perhaps Paul was attempting to say that the resurrection comes first so that all dead saints get to go to heaven and be with Christ before any living saint does, then when the living saint dies, he is caught up to heaven to be with them and the Lord. Since there was clearly a major resurrection in the first century, my suggestion makes sense and harmonizes scripture. Since the first century, no Christian goes to Hades any more. Instead, they immediately go to Heaven as recorded by many witnesses of near-death experiences.

OF course the word is Greek the New Testament writing were in Greek.
Acts Chapter 1 shows us Jesus who was taken up into the clouds . this was a literal event.

preston39 · May 8, 2018

CS1 said:

C....,

So was Enoch,
So was Elijah.

Both literal.

PlainWord · May 9, 2018

CS1 said:

Yes of course, but the word, "harpazo" was not used to describe this event. Christ was not taken forcefully. Harpazo implies an involuntary or automatic aspect to the taking or plucking. As I pointed out in the 13 usages in the NT, harpazo does not always mean the subject is taken to heaven, although it can mean this and does mean this in 1 Thes 4:17.

The issue at hand isn't whether or not those taken in 1 Thes 4:17 are taken to heaven, the issue is WHEN? "Clouds" and "air" in this passage refer to the spiritual realm, the glory cloud, the company of angels in other words - heaven. Most believe this harpazo is a future literally snatching away of all believers who are alive in a point in time to the sky, and ultimately to heaven in a singular (one-time) event. And that those taken never face a physical death and that they return again. There is no teaching of a return following this harpazo in this passage and this view contradicts Heb 9:27.

I believe, on the other hand, this harpazo applies to believers who have died since 70 AD and each go straight to heaven upon their physical deaths and that harpazo is a continuous event we all will experience at the end of our lives.

I believe this is the teaching of scripture and the only view that harmonizes all scripture related to the subject. It also is in fact the way things have been for nearly 2,000 years. So, history so far is on my side.

PlainWord · May 9, 2018

preston39 said:

Yes, both were taken but the word, Harpazo was not used in either case. These were the only two examples we know of where a living person skipped death and went straight to heaven. In both cases these two skipped Hades (Sheol), and were the only two we know about. Abraham, Moses, David, etc, they first went to Sheol to await the Cross and to be freed by Christ. There are no examples of any living person being snatched away to heaven without dying first since the Cross. However, there are plenty of examples of those who had NDEs who got a glimpse of heaven only to be revived and returned to their bodies. Paul was one of these, presumably in 2 Cor 12, if he was talking about himself. John was taken to heaven in spirit and also had an out-of-body experience.

There is absolutely no example of any living mortal since the Cross, skipping death and going straight to heaven since Elijah, not even Christ. When Christ was resurrected, he appeared among men and was visible as an angel would be on earth. When Christ ascended back into heaven, He was transformed into the body of the spiritual realm visible to us only as a very bright light while the door between the spiritual and physical realm was open.

Spiritual beings who enter our physical realm appear like us because they enter our physical realm. We were created in THEIR likeness. This is how angels were seen in the Bible and how Abraham was able to wrestle with God. However, if the spiritual being remains in the spiritual realm with the "door" between realms open, they would be able to talk to us but we would only be able to see them as surrounding bright lights. This is how Paul saw Christ on the road to Damascus.

Prior to the Cross, those who died did not have Christ blood to atone them and wash away their sins. Thus they could not be with God. Spiritual death = Separation from God. Thus there was a gulf between them and heaven. Christ's blood of course provided a "bridge" allowing those saved to finally enter heaven and this happened in the first century in the 66-70 AD time frame. Since the Parousia of Christ in 70 AD at the fall of the temple, His presence is always with us and when we die, we no longer go to Hades, instead we go straight to heaven as spiritual beings NOT dis-embodied souls. We are under the new covenant. The old covenant (Law) passed away when the temple was destroyed.

There is no other work for Christ to do. We are in the Messianic Age which many don't realize is the Millennium spoken of in Rev 20. Heaven is Christ's throne and Earth is His footstool. He is not returning to reign in some earthly Jewish temple. This notion is totally without merit and contradicts numerous passages. Christ dwells within us and we are His Temple.

CS1 · May 9, 2018

preston39 said:

we do not know that for Enoch he walked with God and was no more. Jesus did not go up in a fiery Chariot , yes both were literal .

CS1 · May 9, 2018

PlainWord said:

Yes of course, but the word, "harpazo" was not used to describe this event. Christ was not taken forcefully. Harpazo implies an involuntary or automatic aspect to the taking or plucking. As I pointed out in the 13 usages in the NT, harpazo does not always mean the subject is taken to heaven, although it can mean this and does mean this in 1 Thes 4:17.

The issue at hand isn't whether or not those taken in 1 Thes 4:17 are taken to heaven, the issue is WHEN? "Clouds" and "air" in this passage refer to the spiritual realm, the glory cloud, the company of angels in other words - heaven. Most believe this harpazo is a future literally snatching away of all believers who are alive in a point in time to the sky, and ultimately to heaven in a singular (one-time) event. And that those taken never face a physical death and that they return again. There is no teaching of a return following this harpazo in this passage and this view contradicts Heb 9:27.

I believe, on the other hand, this harpazo applies to believers who have died since 70 AD and each go straight to heaven upon their physical deaths and that harpazo is a continuous event we all will experience at the end of our lives.

I believe this is the teaching of scripture and the only view that harmonizes all scripture related to the subject. It also is in fact the way things have been for nearly 2,000 years. So, history so far is on my side.

"harpazo" is the verb the context is Jesus is the one who is taking them.

PlainWord · May 9, 2018

CS1 said:

Jesus was taking who? Not those being "harpazo'd." Look at the text again. It doesn't say anyone is doing the taking here. Here it is in the YLT.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away (harpazo) in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be.

Replace "clouds" and "air" with Heaven. I think this is saying that those who are still living (at the time of the 66 AD resurrection) will be caught up to heaven when they die to meet those who were resurrected previously, meeting them and the Lord in Heaven.

abcdef · May 9, 2018

PlainWord said:

Brother PW,

Is everything finished by 70 ad or not? Because it seems that everything that you are professing is designed to meet that criteria.

You have found a place that seems to have the answers, I have been there before, it is not completely correct. You have accepted many things without doing some deeper thinking on some of the scriptures.

-----

The time line is not correct for one thing. Not every prophecy was fulfilled by 70 ad.

The result is that the scriptures must be made to fit the 70 ad period.

The 2 Pet 3:1-12, is a good example. The elements are air, water, earth and fire. Even that information website says that.But then, the elements must be changed into symbols related to the 70 ad dest, instead of recognizing the relationship to the literal world wide flood in the context.

For example, the waters symbolize people Rev 17:15. But if you say that the waters are the people of the gentile nations in 2 Pet, that would show all the gentile nations destroyed by fire in 70 ad, which did not happen.

So to satisfy the completely false teaching that everything was done by 70 ad, the meaning of the verses are changed to meet that criteria.

-------

Another thing that you have accepted without really thinking is that everything in Daniel is done by 70 ad.

The statement by the angel in Dan. 12, that everything shall be finished by the scattering (70 ad), is about the last vision only, not the whole book with the other visions.

This is why they say that the stone striking is the dest of Jerusalem and not the coming of Jesus for the kingdom.

But the reality is, that the kingdom started on Pentecost, only a few inches from the end of the brass. Followed by the dest of Jeru soon after. The whole time period from the invasion of Rome at the beginning of the iron, until the dest of Jeru was only 130 years approx., and the legs/toes show a time much longer than that.

-----

tanakh · May 10, 2018

PlainWord said:

The OT saints were removed from Hades at Christs resurrection. We are told some appeared in Jerusalem, and since then believers who die go straight to Heaven. Paul said that Christ would bring those who had died with him at his coming. Its fairly certain that they didn't turn up in AD70 so from that I reckon the coming he spoke of in Matthew 24 didn't happen then What did happen then is Gods judgement on the nation that he did prophecy would happen in their lifetime. What happened then happened before when most of the Country ended up in Babylon. No one suggests that Christ returned then. The only difference is that the Jews didn't have to wait 2000 years for s small proportion to come back.

If you take the whole of his conversation together its obvious that Jesus was covering the whole of the Disciples questions and the form it takes is similar to how the prophets delivered their messages. The events refer to more than one period of time. Its the only logical answer because after he speaks of 'this Generation' he goes on to speak about his sudden coming and the sheep and goats being separated. The Jewish War lasted from AD68 to AD71 so the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple didn't happen suddenly like a thief coming in the night. It spread over the whole of Judea.

Endoscopy · May 10, 2018

PlainWord said:

Yes, a day = a year sometimes, like in the case with Dan 9. But not in this case because in this case we have the historical record which lines up nicely. Always go with the immediate fulfillment when you have one, rather than looking for an additional fulfillment years later.

Look closely at the passage:

and she brought forth a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, and caught away was her child unto God and His throne,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]and the woman did flee to the wilderness, where she hath a place made ready from God, that there they may nourish her -- days a thousand, two hundred, sixty.

The Woman brought forth Jesus - this woman was 1st century Israel

and the Woman fled into the wilderness after His ascension. This has to be the Christian church in Jerusalem which famously left the city when the Roman armies appeared and not one soul was lost.

Later in Rev 12 we have this:

and the dragon was angry against the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, those keeping the commands of God, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I said earlier that this was the gentile church being persecuted but there is another possibility. Soon after the War and destruction of Jerusalem, Caesar Vespasian ordered that all the seed of David be sought out and killed. Again, if we have a perfect fulfillment not long after the prophesy was given, we should go with that.

This is recorded by Eusebius around 300 AD.

Chapter XII.—Vespasian commands the Descendants of David to be sought.

He also relates that Vespasian after the conquest of Jerusalem gave orders that all that belonged to the lineage of David should be sought out, in order that none of the royal race might be left among the Jews; and in consequence of this a most terrible persecution again hung over the Jews.

You believe whatever you want to believe Biblical or not. I reject your opinions on the matter.

Endoscopy · May 10, 2018

PlainWord said:

You love to distort the Bible to your partially Biblical pretorist view of eschatology. You need to get a fully Biblical one. Go back and let the full Biblical teachings be what you use instead of the partial Biblical pretorist view.

PlainWord · May 10, 2018

A-F,

Most of it fits in the 70 AD time frame once you understand it. Jesus, the disciples, Paul, etc, all taught things that were to happen in the near future. "Quickly," "soon," "at hand," "this generation," etc., are words used to indicate the timing of things to take place. Nothing in the NT hints at far distant (i.e. 2,000+ years) fulfillment. In Daniel 12 we find language stating some things are reserved for the "time of the end" and this end was Israel, when the power of the holy people had been completely shattered. The next time this happened to the "holy people" (Israel) was in 70 AD. But let's leave Daniel aside for a moment so I can address some of your points first.

Most things were fulfilled in the first century, the destruction of Jerusalem, the passing of the Law, the full transition to the new age, our age, the Messianic Age, AKA the "millennium." Oh, I dig deep brother A-F and have spent years on this stuff finding a prophetic model that harmonizes all scripture as my goal. Of all the 4 main views of eschatology, with all their variations, my view has the least problems, if it has any problems at all. I would classify myself as a partial (almost full) preterist and/or an in-millennialist, meaning we are in the millennium now.

Not every - most. The "age to come" is mentioned in several places, (Mt 12:32, Mk 10:30, Lk 18:30, Eph 1:21, 2:7, and Heb 6:5). Thus we know at the time these passages were written, the next age had not started yet. Since we have clear teachings of a future age, when we see "end of the age" or similar language used, we know the end of their age (Mosaic or Law) is being discussed. Many translations incorrectly use "end of the world" instead of "end of the age" which is causing massive confusion out there.

Who was Peter writing to? Did he have anything relevant to say to them? Would a literal destruction of the planet (and heavens) some thousands of years later have any significance to them and how they were living?

Read all of 1 Peter and 2 Peter together to gain the context. For instance, 1 Peter was written to:

the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia

2 Peter was written to likely the same group Peter was ministering to:

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.

If you look at 1 Pet 1, you find this:

who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

and this:

To them (the OT prophets) it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

and this:

and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

and this:

He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

See that??? They were in the "last times." Peter says the same thing in Acts 2:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh."

They were in the last days of the Mosaic Age, the Law. This age ended when the temple was destroyed. At this same time, the new age, our age, fully transitioned over the course of 40 years from the Cross to 70 AD, just as there was 40 years of transition from Egypt to the Promised Land.

For example, the waters symbolize people Rev 17:15. But if you say that the waters are the people of the gentile nations in 2 Pet, that would show all the gentile nations destroyed by fire in 70 ad, which did not happen.

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Peter is using "flood imagery" to describe the soon pending destruction of Israel. He confirms they are the scoffers in the same "last days" that he mentioned earlier. He discusses them in greater detail one chapter earlier in 2 Pet 2. 2 Pet 3:10-12 is the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Look at verse 13. They were to look for the "new heavens and earth" not us. Then see vs 17:

You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked.

They knew this beforehand so that THEY would not be judged as the others. They were to be looking forward to these things because these things were to happen while they were still alive.

The Rapture

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