I love your example, Joe. Moses was often angry, as so many self-designated prophets often appear to be. He didn't pay a penalty until the last time he got angry though.
Then there's the old prophet that dwelt in Bethel.
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I love your example, Joe. Moses was often angry, as so many self-designated prophets often appear to be. He didn't pay a penalty until the last time he got angry though.
Then there's the old prophet that dwelt in Bethel.
Does that make me a false prophet?
If so what is the penalty?
I'm rather hoping it's a 100 lines "I should not be a false prophet"
While that is true, there are a whole lot of other things that are not in that verse. That is the danger of taking one or two verses and using them as a "formula", be-all end-all.
If you look at verse 5, you could say that we don't even have to believe in Jesus... we were saved simply "by grace"... which is an "un-merited favor". So, nothing needed except the grace of God.
Verse 8 elaborates a little more, at least clarifying that it's by grace "through faith". So, you could say that that's all there is to it... have faith, you're saved, because of God's grace.
Chapter 4 gets a little more definitive... it says there is one Lord, one faith (remember that?), and one baptism. So, we have Jesus, our faith in him, and our baptism.
If you look at Acts 2:38, all you need to do is turn away from you sins and be baptized... nothing else required.
In Matthew, Jesus tells us we are to become disciples, be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit, and we are to observe everything Jesus taught the apostles.
If you look at Jesus and the woman that washed and anointed his feet... her faith saved her. Nothing else mentioned. No grace, no nothing.
Looking at only one scripture for your "formula" is the wrong way to come to a conclusion, or understanding. Much like the old fable about the blind men describing an elephant.
Yes I agree.
But one has to quote verses that back up what they are saying and believe.
Are you agreeing with me or trying to correct me?
When anyone disagrees with WHAT IS WRITTEN, I always say "So I guess GOD LIED then" or "GOD LIED when HE SAID ..." according to YOUR interpretation.
I believe I've quoted Numbers 23:19 often enough for you to know that I don't think "GOD IS A LIAR" and "GOD KNOWS MY HEART" and that's the main thing.
Oh! So now no one can "KEEP GOD IN A BOX" but MOST on here are "Trinitarians" which has LIMITED HIM to just "3?"
How ironic!
GOD DID NOT "change HIS methods" pertaining to baptism the VICEGERENT did!
I believe I've given Exodus 14:16 before in which GOD told Moses to "life up thou rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on *DRY GROUND* through the sea" and they did; and NO ONE GOT WET the same way NO ONE GETS WET by Holy Spirit baptism as they were "baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" (I Corinthians 10:2)!
NO ONE GOT WET!
No one has created "an elephant" or a "stumbling block" for people to prevent your salvation but your VICEGERENT!
Sorry I misquoted Scripture but as much as I've previously quoted Ephesians 4:5 ("one baptism") you should know by now. Don't be "mischievous" because GOD "HATES" IT (Proverbs 6:16-19)!
"GRACE" is not given FREELY it is a "benefit" AFTER being Holy Spirit baptized. Maybe you're referring to MERCY which ALL are given! "GRACE" is what those in Christ "don't deserve" but "MERCY" is what "GOD gives ALL" even UNBELIEVERS!
When you continue to REPEAT Acts 2:38, it shows that you've IGNORED WHAT JESUS SAID in John 14:26 when HE SAID "I will bring ALL things to your REMEMBRANCE whatsoever I've told you" which HE DID as Peter "FORGOT" what JESUS SAID in Acts 1:5 that "fulfilled" water baptism but "REMEMBERED" in Acts 11:15-16 which NULLIFIED ALL WATER BAPTISMS throughout the Book of Acts!
READ IT!
You AGAIN call JESUS "A LIAR" when HE SAID "one baptism" in Ephesians 4:5 and continue to refer to what your VICEGERENT "ADDED" (Matthew 28:19) to make you believe GOD SAID "two" baptisms. Common sense knows 1+1=2 but you people would rather believe your VICEGERENT!
In Luke 7:46 when "the woman that anointed HIS feet" was "forgiven of sins" it was because the Holy Spirit was right there with her (John 17:12) and because she showed "her love for HIM" (Luke 7:47) Jesus "forgave her sin" and FAITH with NOT MENTIONED!
"Mischievous" are we?
"Misinterpreting" Scripture to justify YOUR LIES is calling GOD "A LIAR" which is "BLASPHEMY" (Matthew 12:31-32)!
"That is the danger of taking one or two verses and using them as a "formula", be-all end-all."
How is quoting scripture arrogant? I know that God does not lie, however, if a person can say that God can do what ever he wants without regard to his own word (Malachi 3:6), either God has lied or someone has made a statement without thinking it through clearly. When a person says that the thief on the cross may have been baptized before he was crucified, while he was living a criminals life would be a possibility but highly doubtful. To say that God would make an exception for him if he so desired go's against the Word of God. (Malachi 3:6).
God is no respecter of persons, if God did allow an exception for the thief on the cross and gave him a pass because he wasn't baptized then God changed his method and that go's against (Malachi 3:6).
Or it may be that baptism is just not required for salvation, in which case God's actions at Calvary, the saving of the thief would be in perfect harmony with his word and no exceptions need be made.
You cant just say, "Oh well the thief may have already been baptized, but if he wasn't Oh well God can do what he wants too". Not when it go's against his own words!
The definition of exception is: "something excepted; an instance or case not conforming to the general rule". If baptism is required for salvation, then God would have had to make an exception or change his method which does not conform to the general rule. Which of course didn't happen, because baptism was not required. WOW!
I agree with you that baptism was not mentioned in that passage.... and I'm certainly not trying to "correct" you... that is not my job to do....
I was just giving you my thoughts on how I read scripture. Anybody (not pointing fingers) can take one verse and make it "prove" their point, but that is not a good way to study and understand scripture.
I believe hornetguy would be in full agreement. Water baptism is not required for salvation. That does not mean that it is not required of a Christian saved by grace through faith (with includes the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit).
What many Christians today fail to understand is that Christ and the apostles viewed Christian baptism as PRACTICALLY SYNONYMOUS with conversion. You will see this over and over again in the Acts of the Apostles. But it is not thus regarded today, and in many cases it is not even mentioned to new converts as a commandment of Christ. And then we have the Hyper-Dispensationalists who claim that Christian baptism is not even necessary today. That contradicts Scripture.
Malachi is not saying that God will not ever change His mind, or do something extra-ordinary.
Otherwise, God would have not changed His mind to destroy Sodom, if there could be found 50 righteous people there, and on and on.... He had said He was going to destroy the city, but changed His mind, at least until the righteous could not be found.
There are other examples, but my point is, you are trying to hold God to "His word"... by YOUR standards... and that is a dangerously arrogant thing to do. God does as He wills, to suit His purpose.
Jesus forgave people as he saw fit... the thief on the cross is his final example of that. It does not mean that God lies.. it means that God does as He wills.
GOD DOES NOT CHANGE (Mal 3:6)!
GOD'S "ORIGINAL" baptism (I Corinthians 10:1-2) was baptism by the Holy Spirit (Exodus 13:21) "unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" in which NO ONE GOT WET (Exodus 14:16) as TODAY via Holy Spirit baptism.
Water baptism was ONLY TEMPORARY performed by John UNDER THE LAW in which people "REPENTED; BELIEVING THAT JESUS WAS COMING" (Acts 19:4)!
JESUS CAME AND IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OVER BECAUSE JESUS "FULFILLED" (ACTS 1:5)!
BUT YOU VICEGERENT GOT BUSY "ADDING" MATTHEW 28:19 MAKING JESUS "A LIAR" IN ACTS 1:5 AND "ADDING" I PETER 3:21 WHICH CONTRADICTS AT LEAST THREE OTHER SCRIPTURES; PLUS OTHER "ADDITIONS" IN THE BOOK OF ACTS (ACTS 16; ACTS 19:5+OTHERS)!
TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE, PETER "FORGOT" WHAT JESUS SAID IN ACTS 1:5 AS EVIDENCED IN ACTS 11:15-16 YET "FULFILLING" WHAT JESUS SAID IN JOHN 14:26 "I WILL BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR *REMEMBRANCE*..."
GOD DOES NOT CHANGE (MALACHI 3:6) BUT YOUR VICEGERENT SURE DID CHANGE HIS WORD!
PROVIDE "ONE" SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS "OBEDIENCE IS BY BEING WATER BAPTIZED?"
MATTHEW 28:19 WAS "ADDED" BY THE VICEGERENT AND MAKES GOD "A LIAR" IN EPHESIANS 4:5 AND SO WAS I PETER 3:21 "ADDED" BY THE VICEGERENT WHICH CONTRADICTS AT LEAST THREE OTHER SCRIPTURES.
HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM IS THE "ONE BAPTISM" MENTIONED IN EPHESIANS 4:5 AND SINCE JESUS *IS* THE HOLY SPIRIT HE BAPTIZED THE THIEF ON THE CROSS (JOHN 14:18; 17:12)! GOD IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSON AND DOESN'T TREAT US ANY DIFFERENTLY!
CONSEQUENTLY SINCE THE THIEF ON THE CROSS WAS *NOT* WATER BAPTIZED *NOR* DID HE "TAKE COMMUNION" THESE ARE MAN MADE RITUALS MADE UP BY YOUR VICEGERENT!
U
UnderGrace
Guest
I NEVER said GOD LIES!
I say "HE DOESN'T CHANGE" (Malachi 3:6) when it comes to baptism EITHER!
Exodus 14:29 "The Children of Israel walked upon DRY LAND..." and NO ONE GOT WET although "Baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" (I Cor 10:1-2)!
Jeremiah 6:16 "Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the OLD PATHS, where is the GOOD WAY, and WALK THEREIN, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, WE WILL NOT WALK THEREIN."
GOD DIDN'T CHANGE when it came to baptism because the FIRST baptism was one in which NO ONE GOT WET and so is the LAST!
"Which INCLUDES baptism by the Holy Spirit?"
Oh? So you can just "ADD" to the WORD OF GOD (Rev 22:18-19) and say "I'm saved?"
Didn't you READ Acts 11:15-16 wherein Peter "FORGOT" what JESUS SAID in Acts 1:5?
If Matt 28:19 was TRUE why would Paul say "Christ sent me NOT to baptize" (I Cor 1:17) AFTER JESUS had ALLEGEDLY COMMANDED the disciples?