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Healing through the Son
- Thread starter joaniemarie
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No., I'm not over exaggerating at all. We Christians need to know where the bad things come from and they don't come from God. They come from being here on earth. We are attacked by the world....the flesh....the devil. God doesn't attack us with evil. God sent Jesus to deliver us from evil. God is not schizophrenic and we must not attribute that to Him. What He says He does. He means what He says and He says what He means.
When you are the owner of this site than I'm sure I'll be banned for disagreeing with you. But thankfully you are not the owner or administrator of CC. I have not brought any false teaching here as you have accused me so often of else I would have been banned by robo a long time ago.
Nehemiah., you just can't deal with differing opinions and get very childish and petty over it. I suggest you grow up Nehemiah and stop your bellyaching.
Ok then, seems like you are over embellishing and adding to what I have said.
Here is where we disagree...God does allow us to be tested.
He does not tempt us, but he will allow us to be tested. But he will not allow us to be tested above what we can stand.
1 Corinthians 10
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
God knows what each of us can stand. He will not allow us to be tempted above that, but we will be tested.
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"Let no man say when he is tempted I am tempted of God"
What I am saying is God never tests us with evil., never. That is just wrong to attribute to God. Read the verse you posted about how God will not test us above what we are able... But will with the temptation give us a way of escape... He gives the escape... not the testing. 1 Cor.10:13
Read the following Bible commentary:
There is no divine approval outside of Christ but the good news declares we are “tested and approved in Christ” (Rom 16:10; see also 2 Cor 10:18). The trials of life are not to test us and trip us but to reveal the genuineness of the gift God has given us.
Some people have interpreted this verse to say that the Lord is the one who brings temptation into our lives and that this is His promise that He will not put on us more than we can bear. That is not so. James 1:13 says, “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man”. It’s our own lust that draws us into temptation (James 1:14).
Also, Satan can come against us without any solicitation on our part, as he did with Jesus (Matthew 4:1-10 and Luke 4:1-13). It is not a sin to be tempted; it is sin to yield to temptation.
This scripture is not attributing the responsibility for temptation to the Lord, but rather, the Lord is saying there are limits as to how far He will allow us to be pressured under temptation. Even when we reach this limit, this verse does not promise that the Lord will remove the situation.
He provides a way of escape, but we have to take it. We can rest assured that anyone who yields to temptation failed to see or just plain rejected God’s way of escape. God is faithful to this promise.
Saying that God "allowed" satan to bring destruction on Job's family and to give him a disease is the same thing as us givingsomeone "permission" to rape our daughter or give our children a disease.
We would throw people in jail if they did such a thing and yet we ascribe these very same things to God. Where do we get this sense of injustice that we would put people in jail for such atrocities? We get it from the virtue of goodness which is an attribute of God's character.
The human heart will not trust in anyone who would do such atrocious things and yet we say that God "allows" satan to kill our children and to give us diseases.
The belief that everything that happens is from God's is a deadly false belief and all false religions have it. It's fatal paganism.
Ultimately God has the final say and His will shall be manifested when the physical kingdom comes into being. In the meantime - we have the kingdom of God within us as believers in our spirits. This false belief that God "allows" all things is from the enemy to make us believers passive and the enemy just runs over us at will.
There is persecution for the gospel's sake as we give our lives if called on but that is not the same as what happened to Job and his family.
And we see the end of Job - that God gave back to Job 2x timeswhat the enemy had taken from him.
Job said that "he had spoken foolishly about God and uttered things that he didn't know" but now at the end of the book of Job - he says "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; but now my eye sees You; therefore I retract, and I repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:5-6
Job changed his thinking ( repented ) about what he had previously said and believed about God when He saw Him for who He truly is. We "hear" others speak about what they believe God to be like and thus we say the same things just like Job did.
But like Job - We do the same thing when we see the Father in the life of the Lord Jesus Christ who came to reveal the true heart and will of the Father while He was on this earth. We repent from our beliefs from those that we have heard about the character of God which may not be accurate - we repent to believe what Christ has revealed to us about the true nature of God. Our eyes then see God for who He truly is.
reposted for clarification.
I don't know if you are playing a game with me or what but the first part is what I said...just pretty much repeated.
I said God doesn't tempt anyone.
Here is the thing though...He allows us to be tested. Sometimes he takes the hedge away just like he did with Job and allows us to be tested.
The rest is a commentary...and I think we have both taken this a little off course.
My main point is God did allow Job to be tested and he also can allow us to be tested.
The scripture on Job is plain...there really is no getting around it. Twist as anyone might...God allowed Job to be tested and it was not because Job was sinning. God said he was blameless... Never once said that he was at fault for any of it.
What was the lesson that Job learned? Who was he to question God? It rains on the just and the unjust...
Joaniemarie, Its better to read and talk what the bible says, then reading it in and know better then God what he meant with his word. But this is the thing, when God is different then how we expect him ore when we dont understand him. Then the human try to make God according our imagination. But this will not work. GOD is GOD!
Sorry but the scripture is plain...God took down his hedge and allowed Job to be tested.
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I'm not playing games. Here is what you posted;
I believe we remove ourselves from God's protection when we decide to live by our own wits in our own power and understanding. God doesn't force us to trust Him and believe Him and to take from His super abounding provision. He allows us to make a daily choice. He doesn't zap us nor does He take His hand off of us. We decide to trust in our own limited understanding and reasoning when walk away from His provisions.
Yes, we may at times but it is not always the case sometimes we have to go through trials.
Job did not do anything to walk away from God's protection. The scripture is plain on that....God said Job was righteous and without blame.
God let down the hedge to allow Satan to test Job.
And here is what the NT says about trials and testing:
1 Peter 12
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
I'm not playing games at all. I'm answering your posts. Job was righteous meaning he was in right standing not perfect behaving. Job was a sinner he was not sinless or perfect. Only Jesus is sinless and perfect. The commentary has the Bible verses that cannot be disputed.
James 1:13 says, “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man”. It’s our own lust that draws us into temptation (James 1:14).
Also, Satan can come against us without any solicitation on our part, as he did with Jesus (Matthew 4:1-10 and Luke 4:1-13). It is not a sin to be tempted; it is sin to yield to temptation.
If you want to disagree that is your prerogative. God doesn't take down His protection on His children when they are obeying Him. The world., the flesh and the devil come at us when we are following God's will. But when we choose to walk away or will not change our minds about who God is and how God deals with us we choose to walk out of His truth and end up getting caught in the brush and walking in confusion. This happens but God doesn't make it happen.
Just like Adam and Eve. They believed the lie about God holding out on them. They believed the devil. They didn't trust that God was for them. The devil is still doing the same thing today with believers.
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The Bible says when we want to see the Father we look at the Son. That is the way to interpret the Bible and rightly divide the Word of truth. Is Jesus being revealed in us? Is He being revealed by the Holy Spirit in the Bible? That is how to rightly interpret the Word of God today. The Holy Spirit leads us into ALL truth. We cannot understand the Scriptures without the Holy Spirit revealing Christ to us.
If you don't agree that is your prerogative.
Yes he maintained the faith of Christ protecting it, the sword of the Spirit as it protected Job who was not found with a righteousness of his own but rather by the righteousness of Christ's faith as his labor of love that worked in Job to both will and do the good pleasure of our God .
It takes the Holy Spirit to show us the truth of who Jesus is., and to see who God the Father is. When we see God through the old covenant mindset there is a veil over our eyes. It was true for me as a Christian. Never heard of new covenant Christians trying to live under the old covenant and ended up spinning their wheels sort of speak. I figured the requirements were all the same but they are not. Covenants are all different. And today we live under the covenant of grace not works.
John 5:39-40 is Jesus speaking to the Jews that rejected Him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!
[SUP]
40 [/SUP]And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.
The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )
Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40
Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.
Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )
God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.
A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.
Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!
He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.
The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.
In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )
The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.
The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote
[/QUOTE]
John 5:39-40 is Jesus speaking to the Jews that rejected Him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!
[SUP]
40 [/SUP]And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.
The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )
Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40
Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.
Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )
God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.
A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.
Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!
He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.
The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.
In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )
The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.
The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote
[/QUOTE]
Wow...still don't see where I said God tempted anyone with evil...My head is starting to hurt from this conversation. So just highlight or bold where I said that because I know I will never find it because I'm sure I would have never said that.I'm not playing games. Here is what you posted;
Re: Healing through the Son
Originally Posted by joaniemarie
I believe we remove ourselves from God's protection when we decide to live by our own wits in our own power and understanding. God doesn't force us to trust Him and believe Him and to take from His super abounding provision. He allows us to make a daily choice. He doesn't zap us nor does He take His hand off of us. We decide to trust in our own limited understanding and reasoning when walk away from His provisions.
Yes, we may at times but it is not always the case sometimes we have to go through trials.
Job did not do anything to walk away from God's protection. The scripture is plain on that....God said Job was righteous and without blame.
God let down the hedge to allow Satan to test Job.
And here is what the NT says about trials and testing:
1 Peter 12
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
I'm not playing games at all. I'm answering your posts. Job was righteous meaning he was in right standing not perfect behaving. Job was a sinner he was not sinless or perfect. Only Jesus is sinless and perfect. The commentary has the Bible verses that cannot be disputed.
James 1:13 says, “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man”. It’s our own lust that draws us into temptation (James 1:14).
Also, Satan can come against us without any solicitation on our part, as he did with Jesus (Matthew 4:1-10 and Luke 4:1-13). It is not a sin to be tempted; it is sin to yield to temptation.
If you want to disagree that is your prerogative. God doesn't take down His protection on His children when they are obeying Him. The world., the flesh and the devil come at us when we are following God's will. But when we choose to walk away or will not change our minds about who God is and how God deals with us we choose to walk out of His truth and end up getting caught in the brush and walking in confusion. This happens but God doesn't make it happen.
Just like Adam and Eve. They believed the lie about God holding out on them. They believed the devil. They didn't trust that God was for them. The devil is still doing the same thing today with believers.
God took down the hedge and allowed Job to be tested. There is no way around that...
The lesson is that health, wealth, and prosperity on this earth isn't automatically guaranteed just for being righteous and faithful. So if you see someone struggling with any ailments it don't automatically mean they are sinners and being punished or they just don't have enough faith. So let's try not be like Job's friends and get rebuked by God. They were actually preaching prosperity gospel to Job, and got rebuked for it.
I'm amazed to know today that the Bible is not a rule book but a love letter to us. It reveals Jesus in it's pages and through us. We need the Holy Spirit to do this., we can't do it on our own.
We can read the Bible day in and day out but if we are not letting the Holy Spirit change our minds to see Jesus as He is and not what we think or others think He is., we will walk around in religious ideas. It's like the law is holy but the law has no power to make anyone holy. That is done through Christ by grace through faith in the new creation. Then we have the Holy Spirit to be our teacher., not the law. No more school master.
The Bible is clear and it also has more to tell us than what we first heard and read. The Bible is unlike any other book because it is Authored by the HolySpirit and only He can interpret it to those who are WILLING to let Him. The bread of life is Jesus and He is in the Bible from start to finish.
If we read the Bible like a rule book that is what it will be., rules. Reading the Bible with a mind to see Jesus revealed is when we start seeing more and more about Grace and Truth. When we start to see the Love of God in Christ to us then we will know that God is for us not against us. We start learning about the love of God and the grace of God and the new covenant we are now in. We walk in confidence of our standing in Christ.
Jesus is the Good Shepherd to leads the sheep., He never gets behind the sheep using a cattle prod. No. He leads., He goes before us and we who hear His voice follow. No beating sheep up., no breaking the sheep's legs to "teach them a lesson"
Jesus never did that to anyone.
If we want to know the way God deals with us we must look at Jesus and how Jesus dealt with people. Jesus never forced anyone to do anything. His sheep hear His voice and follow most willingly.
We can read the Bible day in and day out but if we are not letting the Holy Spirit change our minds to see Jesus as He is and not what we think or others think He is., we will walk around in religious ideas. It's like the law is holy but the law has no power to make anyone holy. That is done through Christ by grace through faith in the new creation. Then we have the Holy Spirit to be our teacher., not the law. No more school master.
The Bible is clear and it also has more to tell us than what we first heard and read. The Bible is unlike any other book because it is Authored by the HolySpirit and only He can interpret it to those who are WILLING to let Him. The bread of life is Jesus and He is in the Bible from start to finish.
If we read the Bible like a rule book that is what it will be., rules. Reading the Bible with a mind to see Jesus revealed is when we start seeing more and more about Grace and Truth. When we start to see the Love of God in Christ to us then we will know that God is for us not against us. We start learning about the love of God and the grace of God and the new covenant we are now in. We walk in confidence of our standing in Christ.
Jesus is the Good Shepherd to leads the sheep., He never gets behind the sheep using a cattle prod. No. He leads., He goes before us and we who hear His voice follow. No beating sheep up., no breaking the sheep's legs to "teach them a lesson"
Jesus never did that to anyone.
If we want to know the way God deals with us we must look at Jesus and how Jesus dealt with people. Jesus never forced anyone to do anything. His sheep hear His voice and follow most willingly.
That's ok., We don't have to agree. I don't agree with your assessment of the story of Job. I know that God takes care of us much better than we can ever do. We will come up against trails and issues in this life and we learn to follow Jesus and not our own understanding. This is a daily process. Ailments don't mean we are out of God's will. It means we are learning as we go. Life brings trials.
When we walk our own way it's a recipe for a mess. It's a recipe for isolation., confusion., poverty and lack. Job needed an attitude adjustment and he got it. By the end of the book God restored him with more than he had before.
Trusting God for who He says He is ... that is not leaning to my own understanding. When we acknowledge Him in all our ways He WILL direct our paths. And Jesus says where our paths will go....
Psalm 23
[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.
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you're either one of a crew, or you are being allowed to stay here for as member of 'another's CREW..,
Jesus' (Teachings NEVER change)...
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