Healing through the Son

[wolfwint]

Is it God's will that we be transformed "daily" into the image of His Dear Son? If it doesn't happen in one moment... does it mean that verse is not meant for us today? I believe for sure these bodies will wear out and we will get our new bodies that will never get tired or sick or moody or tempted. Just a thought... Moses was not even in the new covenant but he walked in health and his eye was not dim. And Sarah and Moses had a baby because God supernaturally gave them youthful working bodies.

Time is what we are locked into while living in these bodies but like Jesus who had the Holy Spirit to empower Him., we have the Holy Spirit to empower us... as we walk in our new born again creation. Jesus was the FIRST of many brethren... Our flesh is still here but we are not to be mastered by it. Jesus defeated the power of sin but not the presence of sin for us.

Jesus walked in perfect health and obedience because He submitted to God PERFECTLY. We are daily to be learning to walk in the Spirit like He did so we are not controlled by the flesh we were born into before we got saved. Jesus was without sin but He was the first one of "us" humans to follow God perfectly... unlike Adam. Jesus is called the last Adam....

In Christ and in this "new born again spirit man" we have access to the supernatural. And in many areas such as Gal. 5:13-26 tells us believers.

This can't be understood by the flesh nor can it be done by and through our flesh. It be done through the Spirit. Already posted this. Will post again. helps me to keep reading it and thinking on these verses. But let me add too that we are to be daily learning how to walk IN the Spirit and it takes TIME TIME TIME. Because we are in this body IN TIME AND SPACE. Many believers have learned to submit to the HolySpirit without being mastered by the things they used to be mastered by but this took time....

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][a][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][b][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][c][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][d][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][e][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
[SUP]
26 [/SUP]Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking and irritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.

We will become that what you wish for our body now, when the Lord returns and transform us, not before! Every body who says that we can live without sickness ore without sin in our present body is a liar! You should not believe people which teaches such things.

 

[BenFTW]

Again, so “ME” centered! Healing is about God’s will, not guaranteed in the atonement. (You might have missed those discussions, I can repost them if you want to discuss the basic fallacy of the entire foundation of the Word Faith movement.)

No, we do not have the keys to God’s corvette, Jesus has them. Christ purchased our healing for sin sickness. For anyone whom he calls, and they believe. He did not purchase healing for physical illness. Although when it is God’s will, he can and will heal us.,

But nothing to do with this man-centered “me” gospel. All about God, instead!

Angela, why are you so hostile? Put everything aside, I mean everything that we have previously discussed. Rights and wrongs, put them behind us. Why are you acting so hostile, emphatic, and disgruntled? Honest question, no ill-intent.

 

[Angela53510]

No sore feelings Angela. I'm glad that you have good eye sight because it's a pain having to need glasses to read small writing. But I believe these things take time. Time and more time to learn and I'm in for the long haul.

I’ve never had a problem reading close up. But, it has nothing to do with getting a manifestation, sooner rather than later. It has to do with my cataracts changing the shape of my eyes, so that my distance is improving. Something I have never actually prayed for, not because I haven’t wanted to see better, but because its been part of me for as long as I can remember. And people who are near sighted tend to NOT get close up vision problems, I have heard.

Or, maybe it is a gift from God, to make up for other suffering I experience. The first while, it was hard. I used to take my glasses off and lose them everywhere, because I would take them off because I didn’t need them. Well, that is a difficulty I can deal with.

My husband had the eagle’s vision. Gradually, he lost his close up vision, so now, he has reading glasses because he can no longer hold his hands far enough to read what is on the piece of paper. So, I am finally better off, sight-wise than him.

But what a wonderful man, who has stood by me and grown so much in Christ as he has helped me through my sicknesses. Many men leave their wives when they get sick. But, he just kept helping me, driving me to places and being there through everything. God is so good to give me a husband like that! He is most certainly a blessing from God!

 

[joaniemarie]

An evangelist goes to preach the Gospel to a tribe. In approaching the village there stands between him and the village a river. The evangelist seeing the lost on the other side is emboldened, and steps out on to the water and stays afloat. He crosses and does not sink. He then proceeds to preach the Gospel to the lost and many are saved. Finally, it is time for departure.

Time goes by, months, and he decides to check up on these new converts. He returns to the village. Once again he sees the river and the tribe on the other side. This time, however, he looks up and down the river and notices a bridge has been built. He walks over to the bridge, crosses over the river, and goes into the village. New converts approach the evangelist, almost saddened, and ask, "Why sir, have you not walked across the river again?" He replies, "A bridge has been built."

I or any believer very well could ask the Lord to heal our eyes, but we have accepted glasses as a means of solving our problem. A natural solution, instead of a supernatural one. Like the bridge my glasses are a natural method of fixing a problem, my eyesight. It is not that God doesn't have available to me perfect eyes with 20/20 vision, it is that I have grown accustomed to glasses having worn them since I was a child.

God's promises require faith, and action, for faith without works is dead. I am not seeking 20/20 vision from the Lord at this time, and for that reason I do not have it. I am not believing for it, have faith towards that end, or anything of the like. I previously have been content with glasses, but if I ever wish to forsake glasses or they do not serve me, I very well could pursue healing in this area with an active faith.

God has spoken to me personally of things He has promised to me, and His response was plain, for many it might be insulting. He said, "Believe."

I like the way you explained that Ben. I have not prayed about my eyes yet since finding glasses that have solved the problem to that degree so I've also "used the bridge" But I do occasionally find it annoying to need glasses while in WalMart reading the labels or at work doing rounds and the pager goes off and I don't have glasses to read the lighted letters!!!! But I find other issues I'm dealing with much MORE bothersome and constant and am led to pray on those issues right now. Thanks for this post.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes but..... if Jesus was never sick it was because He never inherited from Mary any genetic or biological infirmity, we cannot say the same for ourselves.

As well, bodies succumb to disease that is how people die.

I really do not think this is about having my "spiritual walking/thinking cap" on as "opposed to my flesh walking/thinking cap"

and I do not see learning to walk in the Spirit as a function of time solely but rather a function of being persuaded (faith) of what God says is true and who He is, the more we are persuaded the more God is able to transform us to what He would have us be.

Having said that I do not see good or perfect health as part of maturing in Christ, Jesus did not tell us to abide in Him for good health, I think that if it was part of the plan He would have told us very plainly.

That He healed was to show Himself as Messiah first to His own and then to the rest of us, this was the all important focus of His life, death and resurrection

Is it God's will that we be transformed "daily" into the image of His Dear Son? If it doesn't happen in one moment... does it mean that verse is not meant for us today? I believe for sure these bodies will wear out and we will get our new bodies that will never get tired or sick or moody or tempted. Just a thought... Moses was not even in the new covenant but he walked in health and his eye was not dim. And Sarah and Moses had a baby because God supernaturally gave them youthful working bodies.

Time is what we are locked into while living in these bodies but like Jesus who had the Holy Spirit to empower Him., we have the Holy Spirit to empower us... as we walk in our new born again creation. Jesus was the FIRST of many brethren... Our flesh is still here but we are not to be mastered by it. Jesus defeated the power of sin but not the presence of sin for us.

Jesus walked in perfect health and obedience because He submitted to God PERFECTLY. We are daily to be learning to walk in the Spirit like He did so we are not controlled by the flesh we were born into before we got saved. Jesus was without sin but He was the first one of "us" humans to follow God perfectly... unlike Adam. Jesus is called the last Adam....

In Christ and in this "new born again spirit man" we have access to the supernatural. And in many areas such as Gal. 5:13-26 tells us believers.

This can't be understood by the flesh nor can it be done by and through our flesh. It be done through the Spirit. Already posted this. Will post again. helps me to keep reading it and thinking on these verses. But let me add too that we are to be daily learning how to walk IN the Spirit and it takes TIME TIME TIME. Because we are in this body IN TIME AND SPACE. Many believers have learned to submit to the HolySpirit without being mastered by the things they used to be mastered by but this took time....

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][a][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][b][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][c][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][d][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][e][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
[SUP]
26 [/SUP]Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking and irritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.

 

[BenFTW]

I am praying that some of ya'll WoF don't get really sick and don't get healed. Because what will you say and do then? Will you still praise God or will you resent him for not healing you? Just asking...

What I have learned, having experienced (and experiencing) certain health issues is that while for a time I did direct frustrations towards the Lord, I also came to the realization that He is my Deliverer. How can He deliver me of trouble if I am never in situations that allow me to witness His glory and power? Not that I should expect negative and bad situations but should they come, I know who to rely on to see the victory.

Illnesses and sickness then are opportunities to witness tangibly the goodness of God, and the power of His word. Not that He sent it, but that which was meant for evil God can turn for good. The world is a fallen one, but Christ is risen, and holds the keys of death, and He became a curse for us, setting us free from the curses of the Law. Promises were made in the Old Testament to those under the law, about things pertaining to this life (in regards to health, well-being), how much more in the New Covenant?

The reality is that so called "WOF" people have been sick, but they also have been delivered. They have been sick, and died as well. This too is not a loss but a victory, because they are reunited with God, a better healing. Some are in the process of being healed, to the glory of God. You might ask, "What if they never experience healing in this life, in respect to their specific condition?" It doesn't change the fact that healing is available from God through Christ, be it now, or in the after life. Circumstances do not define the truth of God's word, His word establishes your reality. This is not a delusion but faith, an active pursuit of embracing His words that do not fall to the ground.

 

[joaniemarie]

I am praying that some of ya'll WoF don't get really sick and don't get healed. Because what will you say and do then? Will you still praise God or will you resent him for not healing you? Just asking...

Yes., I'm dealing with issues today and I am looking forward with good expectation to PROVE what that good and acceptable will of God is in such matters for me. I do thank Him for answering and for supplying the answers thus far and for the IN COMING He also answers in other areas I wasn't aware needed the light shined on. So more things are PROVEN as I go along. Just like the Bible promises. So it's very encouraging to know He always does what He says and for my good.

Like the Bible says Romans 12:2 daily seeking and learning to PROVE what is that GOOD and PERFECT and exceptable will of God is personally.



[SUP]2 [/SUP]Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].




I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For by the grace (unmerited favor of God) given to me I warn everyone among you not to estimate and think of himself more highly than he ought [not to have an exaggerated opinion of his own importance], but to rate his ability with sober judgment, each according to the degree of faith apportioned by God to him.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]For as in one physical body we have many parts (organs, members) and all of these parts do not have the same function or use,
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]So we, numerous as we are, are one body in Christ (the Messiah) and individually we are parts one of another [mutually dependent on one another].
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Having gifts (faculties, talents, qualities) that differ according to the grace given us, let us use them: [He whose gift is] prophecy, [let him prophesy] according to the proportion of his faith;
[SUP]
7 [/SUP][He whose gift is] practical service, let him give himself to serving; he who teaches, to his teaching;
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]He who exhorts (encourages), to his exhortation; he who contributes, let him do it in simplicity and liberality; he who gives aid and superintends, with zeal and singleness of mind; he who does acts of mercy, with genuine cheerfulness and joyful eagerness.
[SUP]
9 [/SUP][Let your] love be sincere (a real thing); hate what is evil [loathe all ungodliness, turn in horror from wickedness], but hold fast to that which is good.
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]Love one another with brotherly affection [as members of one family], giving precedence and showing honor to one another.

 

[UnderGrace]

C'mon Ben,

If God had truly given us the keys to healing then all people who believed would be healed and yet reality denies this.

Do you really believe Todd White walked along the street and healed people still?

I give you the keys to a Corvette. Then when you need to go somewhere you ask me for the keys to the Corvette. My response, "I already gave you the keys." Every time you need to go somewhere, travel, you come to me and ask, "Can you give me the keys?" My response? "I gave you the keys." So it is with healing.

We have the keys, we have His promises and His response is to "believe." We keep asking for that which He has already provided through His Son, our savior Jesus Christ. Whether that be healing, forgiveness, or all things pertaining to life and godliness. He has provided it. Christ purchased it. It is ours, by grace through faith.

 

[Angela53510]

Angela, why are you so hostile? Put everything aside, I mean everything that we have previously discussed. Rights and wrongs, put them behind us. Why are you acting so hostile, emphatic, and disgruntled? Honest question, no ill-intent.

How could I not be hostile to a doctrine which killed a friend, and left me in a deep depression when I wasn’t instantly, (or gradually) healed?

How could I not be upset, when Joanie constantly shares these devotionals and blogs that are exegetically wrong? How could I not get defensive for anyone reading these posts of yours and hers, when people are going to be damaged physically and spiritually by this absolutely wrong piece of teaching?

Seriously, how could I not be hostile to you, when you have called me names and put me down because I refuse to knuckle under and believe these pack of lies from the devil?

The fact is, the Word Faith movement killed one of my best friends, when she refused medical treatment. When I wasn’t healed of Rheumatoid Arthritis, a systemic disease that attacks the joints, and organs like kidneys, lungs, heart and skin, and I was put down and told it was because I didn’t have enough faith? Or the new angle which Joanie has said over and over again on this thread and others, that I am “walking in the flesh.”

What lies and garbage!! When you Word Faith people come to realize you are preaching a false doctrine, that pulls people away from God, and apologize for it, then I will stop being on the attack.

I would love to just be nice, and just post the Scriptures. I even did that once:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/144809-word-faith-look-what-bible-says.html

But, as I saw the close mindedness, got told by people like know1 that I was not saved because I am not healed, and thinking back to 2 long years I turned away from God, (although he was faithful to me), I just see the senselessness and stupidity of this terrible 20th century unbiblical doctrine.

I shudder to think how merrily you Word Faith people think you are helping people by sharing this “new revelation.” Except it doesn’t work at all, it is not exegetically correct, and it damages people’s bodies and souls. Think this through for once.

If you say I should be healed, because it is in the atonement, guaranteed, where does that leave me? I think know1 actually got it right. The only logical conclusion of Word Faith, is that if you are NOT healed, you are NOT saved.

So, besides the personal damage, the exegetics is just so wrong and so bad, it is like an insult to me every time I see this Word Faith lie posted and defended.

Got it? Stop insulting me and everyone else by posting this garbage, and you will find me a kind, compassionate and caring person. Right, like I am when I do chaplain work, with the sick and dying! Like I am with people who don’t insist upon posting one after another thread defending outright heresy. Sometimes, righteous anger is called for.

Here’s a suggestion, maybe look up how I am in the Family Forum. Sometimes I get tough with people, but I most try to see them through God’s eyes, and offer suggestions to send them in his direction. I disgree with people all the time here, but without hostility. It’s this garbage that is a trigger for me. And God has really healed me of the pain this damaging doctrine did to me.

But like Blain, I want to stop people who come here looking for answers, and stumble onto this thread, and don’t have the hermeneutical knowledge to understand how it is a lie. I am going to be incredibly emphatic every post, to drive home the point, that Word Faith and hypergrace are lies, and I will stand against every single post made on this topic, so NO ONE ever needs to be seduced by this false gospel.

I’ve been reading through the prophets, and let’s face it, no one wants to be told they are being deceived by false teachers and prophets. But, all those books from Isaiah through to Malachi are there for a reason! To warn the people of God. No, you can’t warn people in love! They won’t listen when you warn them in anger! Well, maybe a few will? That is my hope and prayer!

“I answered,[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“Who would listen
if I spoke to them and warned them?
Their ears are so closed
that they cannot hear!
Indeed, what the Lord says is offensive to them.
They do not like it at all.
11 I am as full of anger as you are, Lord,
I am tired of trying to hold it in.” Jer. 6:10-11
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
“says the Lord.[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]13 “That is because, from the least important to the most important of them,
all of them are greedy for dishonest gain.
Prophets and priests alike,
all of them practice deceit.
14 They offer only superficial help
for the harm my people have suffered.
They say, ‘Everything will be all right!’
But everything is not all right!
15 Are they ashamed because they have done such shameful things?
No, they are not at all ashamed.
They do not even know how to blush!
So they will die, just like others have died.
They will be brought to ruin when I punish them,” Jer. 6:12d-15
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Yes, I do know the context. The prophets are leading people away from God with their man-centered gospel. The people are worshiping false gods and following false teachers. Just exactly like the Word Faith heresy!

“16 The Lord who rules over all says to the people of Jerusalem:
“Do not listen to what
those prophets are saying to you.
They are filling you with false hopes.
They are reporting visions of their own imaginations,
not something the Lord has given them to say.” Jeremiah 23:16

“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Matt. 24:24[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

I hope that answers your questions.

 

[BenFTW]

To not be certain if God will heal someone is not to doubt God! THIS is the whole debate.
Gosh sakes...

How is it that Peter could approach the lame man at the gate named "Beautiful" and give him what he has (healing) if Peter did not know God's will in respect to healing? He said, "Rise up and walk!" Now, you might say this was something only an apostle could do, but lets read the verses in context and notice something Peter said about God, the Father.

Acts 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
10 And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
11 And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus

How does a healing glorify Jesus Christ, the Son of God? How did God glorify His Son through an act of healing? It very well may be that Christ through His bloodshed and suffering purchased it. Notice in verse 6 that the command to rise up and walk was done so "in the name of Jesus..." and it is by that authority healing occurs. Why? Jesus is Lord.

 

[joaniemarie]

 

[UnderGrace]

It very well may be that Christ through His bloodshed and suffering purchased it

I am so confused, one minute you say it may be, and then you seem unsure, you admit to illness, but come back with yes we have the keys to healing?

How is it that Peter could approach the lame man at the gate named "Beautiful" and give him what he has (healing) if Peter did not know God's will in respect to healing? He said, "Rise up and walk!" Now, you might say this was something only an apostle could do, but lets read the verses in context and notice something Peter said about God, the Father.

Acts 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
10 And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
11 And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus

How does a healing glorify Jesus Christ, the Son of God? How did God glorify His Son through an act of healing? It very well may be that Christ through His bloodshed and suffering purchased it. Notice in verse 6 that the command to rise up and walk was done so "in the name of Jesus..." and it is by that authority healing occurs. Why? Jesus is Lord.

 

[Didymous]

Mostly what you don't do is answer questions about Bible examples that disprove the theories you try to pass of as Bible truth. I'm beginning to understand why some seem impatient with you.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I am not seeking 20/20 vision from the Lord at this time, and for that reason I do not have it.

O ye of little faith!

 

[joaniemarie]

These truths are not only for healing but also for all other things pertaining to life and godliness. Knowing and believing who we are IN Christ is a major factor in walking it out. Healing is just one of many things we have in the atonement.

...................................................................

“What does it mean to walk by the spirit?” Traditionally “the spirit” has been interpreted as meaning the Holy Spirit. To walk by the spirit thus means doing whatever the Holy Spirit tells you.

But if you look at the context of Galatians 4, you will see that Paul was referring to our reborn spirits. Your spirit is one with Christ and is in CONSTANT FELLOWSHIP with the Holy Spirit. So the choice Paul was describing was whether to walk by the limited sensory experience of the flesh, or the unseen reality of our perfectly sanctified spirits.


To live by the spirit means LEARNING to make decisions from our SPIRIT rather than our MINDS. Sometimes we just know things that reason cannot explain because they are spiritually discerned. We sense a prompting to pray for someone only to learn later that it was for them a moment of great need. This is how Adam and Eve lived before the Fall – their thinking was spirit-led rather than flesh-based.


If we understood that our spirits are perfect already (see Heb 10:14), and that we lack nothing (1 Co 1:7), we would spend less time teaching godly character and more time renewing our minds to live by the spirit.

Instead of preaching on faith and sanctification, we would seek to reveal our true identity in Christ. As Ryan says, “The church preaches too much about who we aren’t.” Knowing who you now are and Who lives in you is the key to Christian living. "

.............................................

I agree with what the author Ryan Rufus says in the above except from his book. This is always so helpful to reminded of and to remember it when asking for anything. It's always because of Jesus. The Bible says we are already perfect in Him. Now we walk out that part of us who IS that new creation.

When I chose to listen to the old flesh it leads to confusion and fear. Not so in the new creation that trusts first what the Holy Spirit says about me. Those who have Jesus are Righteous because that is the gift we received that He gave each of us. I can't believe so many mature Christians say this sounds "new age"

John 16:8


And when He comes, He will convict and convince the world and bring demonstration to it about SIN and about RIGHTEOUSNESS (uprightness of heart and right standing with God) and about JUDGEMENT:
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]About sin, because they do not believe in Me [trust in, rely on, and adhere to Me];
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]About righteousness (uprightness of heart and right standing with God), because I go to My Father, and you will see Me no longer;

The Holy Spirit is always reminding the believer of our right standing in Christ. Not about judgment because there is no more judgment or condemnation. All of that was taken care of on the cross when Jesus said it is finished.
[SUP]



11 [/SUP]About judgment, because the ruler (evil genius, prince) of this world [Satan] is judged and condemned and sentence already is passed upon him.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]I have still many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them or to take them upon you or to grasp them now.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future].
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]He will honor and glorify Me, because He will take of (receive, draw upon) what is Mine and will reveal (declare, disclose, transmit) it to you.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]Everything that the Father has is Mine. That is what I meant when I said that He [the Spirit] will take the things that are Mine and will reveal (declare, disclose, transmit) it to you.

 

[joaniemarie]

We will become that what you wish for our body now, when the Lord returns and transform us, not before! Every body who says that we can live without sickness ore without sin in our present body is a liar! You should not believe people which teaches such things.

I disagree because we are new creations in Christ now. And each day we are to be being transformed by the renewing of our minds. We need to learn to think totally differently than our old manner of living and thinking used to do.

We don't live without sickness.,, we live in victory over sickness as we LEARN to walk out who we ALREADY ARE IN Christ ..by and through the Holy Spirit who guides us.... teaches us.... comforts us.... and leads us into all truth. Just like we learn to grow the seed of our new creation in Christ. It gets watered by the Word of God and it grows up to be mature sons of God IN Christ.

The Bible is clear when it says His SEED remains in us and we cannot sin. Have you ever thought of what that means? We are already righteous and already sons. Now we walk out who we are and our new man cannot sin although our old flesh is totally against and apposed to our spirit and vs/vs

How in the world do we NOT sin when we know we do? What is the Bible talking about? It's talking about our NEW CREATION IN CHRIST.

We will not stay the same when we walk in this truth.

I posted these verses and keep posting them because it's how we learn to understand and gain a firm grasp on the truth of the HolySpirit's work in daily life. It takes hearing the Word over and over hearing and hearing and hearing. Thinking on these things during each challenge from life here that comes.

 

[Angela53510]

Yes., I'm dealing with issues today and I am looking forward with good expectation to PROVE what that good and acceptable will of God is in such matters for me. I do thank Him for answering and for supplying the answers thus far and for the IN COMING He also answers in other areas I wasn't aware needed the light shined on. So more things are PROVEN as I go along. Just like the Bible promises. So it's very encouraging to know He always does what He says and for my good.

Like the Bible says Romans 12:2 daily seeking and learning to PROVE what is that GOOD and PERFECT and exceptable will of God is personally.

I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].

Joanie, what on earth are you talking about?? This portion of Scripture has NOTHING to do with healing, at all! It is not even mentioned as a gift in verses 3-10

You are ravaging the text, by making God's "will" about healing, rather than about - God's will! You are doing eisegeis, which is reading INTO the text, what you want it to say! (Eis - in, into Greek)

Chapter 12 begins Paul's exhortations to the Romans. He wants them to think in a Christian way, rather than thee ways of a Jewish rabbi, or a Gentile philosopher. This is about ETHICS!

Paul wants them to think about:
1. The basic factors involved in the formation of a Christian's ethical consciousness
2. The essential motivations of a Christian's ethical thinking and action
3. Questions regarding how a believer in Jesus is to determine how he or she should think and act in the various personal, societal and ecclesiastical situations.
4. The need to put all these matters into practice.

I'm just going to deal with the first 2 verses, which is plenty to think about!

"Therefore I exhort you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a sacrifice—alive, holy, and pleasing to God—which is your reasonable service. 2 Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect." Romans 12:1-2 NET[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Therefore, takes us back to chapters 9-11, and what Paul wrote about the mercies of God.

Verse 1:
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Παρακαλῶ [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]- to exhort, encourage someone to do something. Often used of troops who were about to go into battle. Here it is a request based on the apostolic authority of Paul.

[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]οἰκτιρμῶν [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]- Gentive Active Participle - mercy, compassion, and pity arising out form the miserable state of th done in need. Plural may be reflective of the individual acts of compassion, or due to Hebrew rachamim (deep compassion). the Genitive informs the reader that the divine mercies are the power by which this exhortation should take possession of one's will. Of course, these mercies are from God - [/FONT][FONT=&quot] τοῦ θεοῦ.
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]παραστῆσαι[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Aor. Active Infinitive - to present a sacrifice, literally meaning "to place beside" for any purpose. Infinitive direct discourse as the object of the verb.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]τὰ σώματα [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- the body. It refers to the physical body in verse 1. Verse 2 singles out the ind for renewal.
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]θυσίαν ζῶσαν [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- Double accusative - [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]θυσίαν [/FONT][FONT=&quot] - offering, sacrifice. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ζῶσαν [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- living Present Active Ptcp. The living sacrifice stands in contrast to those which were killed and refers to constant dedication.
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]ἁγίαν [/FONT][FONT=&quot]-Acc. singular [/FONT][FONT=&quot] holy, set apart from profane of daily use and dedicated to the service of God.
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]εὐάρεστον [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- well-pleasing, acceptable w. Dative.
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]λογικὴν [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]- pertaining to reason, rational, spiritual. The use of our bodies is characterized by conscious, intelligent, consecrated devotion to the service of God. The word could mean "spiritual" in the sense of inner or real, "rational" in the sense of appropriate as human beings as rational and spiritual creatures of God, "rational" in the sense of acceptable to human reason, or "logical" in th sense of fitting the circumstances.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]λατρείαν [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- service, worship - Accusative in apposition to "pertaining to."

Verse 2
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]συσχηματίζεσθε [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]- Present, Imperative Passive -form or mold something after something. It refers to external conformity. The verb indicates the adoption or initiation of a pose or received mode of conduct. Present Imperative indicates the discontinuation of an action in progress or else that the action is not to be continually done. Permissive passive, "Do no let yourselves by molded."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]μεταμορφοῦσθε[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] - Present Imperative Passive - to transform, to change the inward reality, "but be transformed in your inmost nature." Permissive and theological passive "let yourselves be transformed by God.

[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]ἀνακαινώσει[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] - Dative Singular - renewing. Instrumental Dative - "by the renewing" Renewing our minds is, by definition, an internal process. God is at work in us, changing us from the very way that we think.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]τοῦ [/FONT][FONT=&quot]νοός -[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Genitive Singular - mind, the thinking power, reason, in its moral quality and activity. Objective Genitive

[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]δοκιμάζειν [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]- Present Active Infinitive - to prove by testing, to accept as approved after testing.
[/FONT]
God's mercy manifested in the Spirit's work of inward renewal does impel us towards the obedience the gospel demands. Looking at the words "conform" and 'transform" we find them to be very different words in Greek. They have different roots, unlike English, and most commentators believe that "conform" refers to a superficial resemblance, whereas "transformed" refers to an inward and genuine resemblance.

Paul is looking for a transformation at the deepest level that is infinitely more significant than conformity to the world's pattern that is distinctive in so many lives.

In the word "transforming" the tense present, and in this case, the "renewing of the mind" is a continuing process with the Holy Spirit initiating and for us - obedience.

When a person comes to Christ, that person is "transferred" into the new age or realm. He or she is no longer under sin's dominion. (See Romans 6). Yet, sin still affects the believer. Although we belong to the new era introduced by Christ, the old era is still with us. We still live in a world strongly influenced by sin and ungodly ways of thinking and believing.

We are NOT magically set apart from the world when we believe. Indeed, God wants us to stay in this world, so that, as "salt and light" we may redeem it for him.

It is the grand salvation-historical scheme that informs Paul's passing reference to [FONT=&quot]τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ [/FONT]"this world" (or age - verse 2). Though ever-present, pressing in on us from every side, this age must not "press us into its mold." Remember that we belong to the new age Christ inaugurated, we must seek to live out the values of that new age, allowing the Spirit to transform our innermost thoughts and attitudes.

We need to understand that God wants internal transformation. The heart of the matter is clearly the work of God's Spirit changing the way we think from within. But because we still live in a world hostile to God and are still prone to interpret God's Spirit for our own selfish advantage, we also need commandments to indicate when we misunderstand the Spirit or fail to internalize His values.

These verses are about ethics, nothing to do with shaping your mind in a way that you will be healed of your ailments. We are guided by our minds, in the process of being renewed so that they perfectly reflect God's will. But that process will never be complete in this lifetime. So we need the external guidance of God's commands. Put the commands at the heart of ethics, and we end up with a superficial incomplete obedience. But exclude the commands entirely and we end up with self-centred and erratic obedience.

That is what these 2 verses are about. As for the rest of Romans 12, it really constitutes a separate part of the book of Romans.

 

[joaniemarie]

[h=2]

Re: Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says![/h]

Our Father is even more wanting for His children to be well then we are. Would we want our own children to be sick to teach them something? Would we put a sickness on our own children? No, a thousand times No.

Would we withhold help from our children to "teach" them something? Of course not. We would be thrown in jail for the things that we say God does to us.

Our Father loves us more then our mere human love does but He operates from different perspectives and principals then we do on this earth.

.........healing is definitely in the true gospel message.....as can be seen when Paul preached the gospel in Lystra. in Acts 14.

Acts 14:7-10 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]and there they continued to preach the gospel.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]At Lystra a man was sitting who had no strength in his feet, lame from his mother's womb, who had never walked.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]This man was listening to Paul as he spoke, who, when he had fixed his gaze on him and had seen that he had faith to be made well,

[SUP]10 [/SUP]said with a loud voice, "Stand upright on your feet." And he leaped up and began to walk.

Paul was preaching the GOSPEL.... the man lame was listening to Paul and then he had faith to be made whole...where did this man get faith to be made whole in his body?

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

The man that was lame from birth heard in the preaching of the gospel of the grace of Christ that he could be made whole. He believed...Paul saw it in him and encouraged him to act on his faith.


Healing is a part of the gospel of the grace of Christ as the forgiveness of sins is.

Jesus even said concerning a lame man put before Him - "Which is easier to say. Your sins are forgiven or get up and walk?"

Jesus called healing the "children's bread". Jesus is the bread of life. Even in the Old Covenant God said that none of these diseases will come if you do the law of Moses. We have a better covenant based upon better promises.

If others have a different opinion on healing in Christ - they are allowed to have it We don't have to insult each other because of a different opinion.

This principle still works in this area and in other areas as well.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.



I totally agree with this post from another thread concerning the same topic.​

 

[joaniemarie]

Healing is a part of the gospel of the grace of Christ as the forgiveness of sins is.

Jesus even said concerning a lame man put before Him - "Which is easier to say. Your sins are forgiven or get up and walk?"

Jesus called healing the "children's bread". Jesus is the bread of life. Even in the Old Covenant God said that none of these diseases will come if you do the law of Moses. We have a better covenant based upon better promises.

If others have a different opinion on healing in Christ - they are allowed to have it We don't have to insult each other because of a different opinion.

This principle still works in this area and in other areas as well.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.



I totally agree with this post from another thread concerning the same topic.

 

[BenFTW]

O ye of little faith!

I understand that is how you perceive what others are saying (and it isn't) but why would you being against such accusations proceed to use them? To make a point, right? Answer a fool according to his folly, except in this case, it is your foolish comprehension of what others are putting forward that has led you to this response.