Women should not be allowed to preach in church

Lucy-Pevensie · Mar 27, 2018

Your crusader knight doesn't bother me at all. No offence taken. I really WASN'T being serious about the spelling either. I just thought we should diffuse the hostilities.

Depleted · Mar 27, 2018

Silverwings said:

I have a woman pastor who has faithfully led the church for 48 years now, and her husband built the church for her, but has since passed on. She is spoken well of in the community, and everyone has a good word for her. 48 years ago, there were not many , if any women preaching, especially in the small town in which we live, that is right in the middle of the Bible Belt, and full of churches, all led by men. In my way of thinking, it took the power of the Holy Ghost for her to be able to stand in the pulpit and proclaim the Word of the Lord.

In her 1889 book Woman in the Pulpit, Frances Willard, the head of the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union, counted some 500 female evangelist preachers as well as 350 Quaker women ministers.

In protestant theology women were not forbidden to be heard according to the universal ministry doctrine “all of us are priests, provided we are Christians “Luther said in 1520. His claim also meant that priesthood was not sacred, “priesthood being just a ministry” (meaning service)

On 23 March 1930 for the first time a woman was ordained. Her name was Berthe Bertsch and it occurred within the Alsace and Lorraine Reformed Church. Why there ?
Because during WWI women had to work to replace men, in factories as well as in post-offices. There were known cases of pastors’ wives who replaced their drafted or departed husbands, but still fulfilled their duties towards the children, the sick, and even presided over funeral and baptism services.

Women were needed to make up for the lack of men due to the war. “Order, good behaviour, honour, require that women should stop talking when a man speaks ; but when no man speaks, women should preach” Luther wrote in 1521, which sums up the way churches considered women during the first half of the 20th century. Women were definitely needed but were kept to their traditional activities, such as catechism, deaconry, and preaching only if need be.

But women were obstinate. They were qualified, proved their abilities in parishes, where the Church appointed them. They worked.

in the second Great awakening more than one hundred women crisscrossed the country as itinerant preachers, holding meetings in barns, schools, or outside in fields. they were the first group of women to speak publicly in america.

Some argued that she was “bold and shameless,” a disgrace to her family and to the evangelical movement. Others insisted that she was the “instrument of God,” a humble woman who had given up everything for Christ.

Few women in early nineteenth-century America provoked more admiration, criticism, and controversy than Harriet Livermore. She was the daughter of a congressman and the grand-daughter of a senator, but after an emotional conversion experience, she renounced her privileged life in order to become a female preacher.

Reputed to be a gifted evangelist who was also a beautiful singer, she became so popular that she was allowed to preach in front of Congress four times between 1827 and 1844, each time to huge crowds. According to a Washington newspaper, more than a thousand people assembled in the Hall of Representatives to hear her preach in 1827, and hundreds more gathered outside to catch a glimpse of her.

President John Quincy Adams had to sit on the steps leading up to her feet because he could not find a free chair. Harriet Livermore was the best-known female preacher of her day, but she was part of a larger community of evangelical women, both white and African-American, who claimed to have been divinely inspired to preach.

Men used to steal women to become wives. The best man was called that because his job was to help his buddy steal the woman and then keep the woman's family away until after they were married. (At which point, she was his wife, and the family could do nothing about it.)

Bridesmaid dresses used to be the same color as the bride's dress too, because that way it was harder to pick out which of the woman was the one stolen to be the man's wife.

And, wedding dresses weren't usually white until Queen Victoria was married in a white dress.

All interesting historic facts, but really doesn't go into anything about the Bible anymore than your history lesson.

Angela53510 · Mar 27, 2018

Icetech said:

In fact, Joanie Marie gets called on her copy and pastes regularly, by me, and by lots of other people. It is against forum rules. Plus, it is a dishonest lie, to represent yourself as having written something, when someone else did, and passing it off as your own. People were shocked to learn they thought they were talking with her about an issue, when I posted that it was totally an article from a Paul Ellis website on hypergrace. (It is easy to plug in a few words to google, and come up with the same writing posted elsewhere!)

In fact, plagiarism is against the law, it is theft of private property. Some writers even have codicils in their writing, that only a certain number of sentences can be copied and pasted, before the author must approve it.

In scholarship, copy and pasting something without giving correct references, means you are basically ousted from the scholarly world, including never finishing a degree, for plagiarism. Even the college I attend, for my German prerequisite I need for my PhD, sends out monthly notices reminding students not to plagiarize or they will be expelled.

In my world, in the legal world, in the world of scholarship, to copy and paste something is illegal and promotes a definite lie. If you are interested in what CC say in its rules:

Rules - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

So, when someone implied that I had copied and pasted something from some website somewhere, that being Icetech by name, and how he didn't believe what I wrote was important, because it was not my own words, he was accusing me of all the above. Another issue with coming into a forum with guns blasting, and not knowing anything about the people, especially about how important proper references and not plagiarizing is to me!

Especially when I have spent literally years studying this topic, since I took theology back in 2006, in Seminary, and it has been a focus of interest for me, seeing as I was not allowed to preach in certain churches I was a member of, when men were preaching in the summer, who literally had no clue how to preach, or anything about the bible (One man had 200 power point slides of a book he read on the family. He read those slides till he was 1/2 hour over time, and then just walked off the stage, not having covered 50 of them. I know numerous members who did not attend in the summer the preaching was so bad, yet I was not allowed to preach, although I was qualified, because I did not have a broken Y chromosome. Nothing against all my men friends, husbands and sons who do, of course! )

Oh, and I do teach and preach in the Baptist church I attend now, FYI.

Lucy-Pevensie · Mar 27, 2018

Angela53510 said:

Thanks for this! I just checked my 2100 page Collins English-German dictionary, page 1803, and schmuck is indeed "jewelry - masculine noun, with schmucken verb transitive and verb reflexive, meaning - to decorate.

Next time, I'll either use English, or perhaps quote the page of the German dictionary. I always think it is ironical that the one thing they don't teach in foreign language classes is swear words or vulgarities. Not to personally use them, just to know what they are if you see them in writing, or someone says them to you.

My French is very advanced, and yet, I honestly don't know any swear words. Or perhaps, that is the best way to go? If you don't know the word, you can't think it or say it. Oh the other hand, that is kind of like a mental censorship?

I roomed with French Girls in college. They taught me all the swear words first! I never learned much French though because I was doing German & Russian.

joefizz · Mar 27, 2018

Pontiac said:

"respect thy elders" it's simple if you disagree with the elderly here fine but you may want to factor in that some are say "in pain" or "have some degree of mental problems" or are "set in their ways" yelling at bricks walls gets you no where you know,where as "conversing" with "understanding" and a "clear mind" is much more "fruitful" all the way around,sure the elderly may "get on your nerves" at times but well that's part of life and it's wise to know which "battles" to pursue because not always are words of the elderly "intentional" and it may end up "pointless" confronting such a person.

Icetech · Mar 27, 2018

Lucy-Pevensie said:

Present the evidence. Angela sure didn't. I simply does not exist because I looked. Nothing but false accusations and name calling. You may not agree with what posted but was it copy and pasted off of a website as was claimed. Talk about double standards in this forum. I made a slight comment and was attacked and name called. She flat out called James37 a liar and PRODUCED NO EVIDENCE! HYPOCRISY (this is not directed at you Lucy)

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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Depleted · Mar 27, 2018

Icetech said:

And this is why I think there is something wrong with your brain. Seriously? What does this have to do with what the two of you said, what the discussion is on this thread even if we go off topic, or how will it clarify anything for her to answer? It is a nonsensical question. Is there a difference is she did this lately or earlier? Does it change anything if she did or didn't do it?

Please, I implore you to seek medical help. Your displaying the same characteristics of someone with dementia. Deal with it now because it goes down hill fast, if you don't!

PennEd · Mar 27, 2018

Cmon gentlemen!! Who taught you to speak to ladies in such harsh terms? They are not only ladies, but also your sisters in Christ.

This is our Connect group, and counseling Pastor. Her and her husband went out with my wife and I, and several other Church couples Saturday night. We didn't get home til after 11:00.

Our lead Pastor quickly got the flu, and asked Pastor Kelly to sub in for him. She had just a couple of hours to prepare for 3 services, the 1st starting at 8:25, the last at 11:00. (I'm a bum on Sunday mornings so I usually go to the 11:00)

I was also thinking about posting this in the healing thread as I believe she does a masterful job with this subject matter. The point is, she is not a lead Pastor but serves our Lord, and we are blessed to have her. I think you guys need to check yourselves.

[video=youtube;QI8CqtisHwE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI8CqtisHwE&list=PLaXq-P3x5wiHPMMWnMUWV_qcPz7aXLkWb[/video]

Icetech · Mar 27, 2018

Depleted said:

It is pure hypocrisy and she should own up to it. In fact the name calling and false accusations should be reported. (she seems to like to report people for doing what she does).

joefizz · Mar 27, 2018

Angela53510 said:

In fact, Joanie Marie gets called on her copy and pastes regularly, by me, and by lots of other people. It is against forum rules. Plus, it is a dishonest lie, to represent yourself as having written something, when someone else did, and passing it off as your own. People were shocked to learn they thought they were talking with her about an issue, when I posted that it was totally an article from a Paul Ellis website on hypergrace. (It is easy to plug in a few words to google, and come up with the same writing posted elsewhere!)

In fact, plagiarism is against the law, it is theft of private property. Some writers even have codicils in their writing, that only a certain number of sentences can be copied and pasted, before the author must approve it.

In scholarship, copy and pasting something without giving correct references, means you are basically ousted from the scholarly world, including never finishing a degree, for plagiarism. Even the college I attend, for my German prerequisite I need for my PhD, sends out monthly notices reminding students not to plagiarize or they will be expelled.

In my world, in the legal world, in the world of scholarship, to copy and paste something is illegal and promotes a definite lie. If you are interested in what CC say in its rules:

Rules - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

So, when someone implied that I had copied and pasted something from some website somewhere, that being Icetech by name, and how he didn't believe what I wrote was important, because it was not my own words, he was accusing me of all the above. Another issue with coming into a forum with guns blasting, and not knowing anything about the people, especially about how important proper references and not plagiarizing is to me!

Especially when I have spent literally years studying this topic, since I took theology back in 2006, in Seminary, and it has been a focus of interest for me, seeing as I was not allowed to preach in certain churches I was a member of, when men were preaching in the summer, who literally had no clue how to preach, or anything about the bible (One man had 200 power point slides of a book he read on the family. He read those slides till he was 1/2 hour over time, and then just walked off the stage, not having covered 50 of them. I know numerous members who did not attend in the summer the preaching was so bad, yet I was not allowed to preach, although I was qualified, because I did not have a broken Y chromosome. Nothing against all my men friends, husbands and sons who do, of course! )

Oh, and I do teach and preach in the Baptist church I attend now, FYI.

It's still baffling and humourous how this topic is still being discussed I mean as I understand it right here on Christian Chat both genders,even teenagers both "teach" or "preach" on here yet "women" are not banned as soon as they "post"(a form of preaching or teaching) so I think the answer is rather "self explanatory" since this site upholds Christian beliefs from the bible and enforces those beliefs if this was such a "clear cut" answer this site undoubtedly would be rather "different".

Icetech · Mar 27, 2018

Angela53510 said:

How about when you do it? I looked hi and low for the evidence of this accusation which was only a few weeks ago and found none.

[FONT=&quot]The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not [/FONT]false accusers

Titus 2:3

Lucy-Pevensie · Mar 27, 2018

Icetech said:

Present the evidence. Angela sure didn't. I simply does not exist because I looked. Nothing but false accusations and name calling. You may not agree with what posted but was it copy and pasted off of a website as was claimed. Talk about double standards in this forum. I made a slight comment and was attacked and name called. She flat out called James37 a liar and PRODUCED NO EVIDENCE! HYPOCRISY (this is not directed at you Lucy)

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Are you James 37 by any chance?

Troubled65 · Mar 27, 2018

So stunned by grace asked,What is "gay purple?". Lol, it's a color much like the rainbow symbol.
I never knew it until recently either.

Troubled65 · Mar 27, 2018

Winerose, I am not "faint of heart". In fact I am facing threat of death at any given moment on any given day for the audacity of clinging to my faith in Christ.

Your name probably suggests you are a luminary...am I right?

Dino246 · Mar 27, 2018

Lucy-Pevensie said:

I wouldn't "count" on it.

Lucy-Pevensie · Mar 27, 2018

Icetech said:

James 37 was a peddler of senseless pursuits.
What "evidence" do you want? The poster was banned. See here: Christian Chat Rooms & Forums - View Profile: James37

Crazy nonsense number threads

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/162168-number-pi-bible.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/160856-significance-number-37-holy-bible.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/164229-bible-number-46-a.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/164522-number-9-bible.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/164473-bible-number-5-a.html

Depleted · Mar 27, 2018

Angela53510 said:

In the US, Congress enacted a Communications Act 1-2 decades ago. It basically said that business people who have a social media site are not responsible for the content of the members of that site. (The test case was someone trying to sell a nonexistent apartment to someone on an apartment-rental site, and the person who got hoodwinked into paying for the fake-apartment tried to sue the site too.)

One really important exception though in that law -- plagiarism. Social media site owners are able to be sued by the copyright owner of material stolen, if they see that happening on the site. THAT is how important copyright infringement is.

Personally, I know most people are clueless on what it means to take someone else's material, and then post it without contributing it to the the correct owner, (and how little they understand on it can only be used with permission by the owner), so I usually explain this to a person first. BUT, after it is explained, and the behavior persist, then I report. And when reporting, that is one time mods have to deal with it from the legal standpoint, because if they don't, and the writer finds out and sues them, the writer will win that lawsuit, on the grounds of that act.

MY writing has been stolen twice. (NEVER on this site.)

-- Google deleted the blog because of my report, after I was unable to contact the owner of that blog to let him know what to do. (And, honestly? My writing was free to use wherever, as long as it included the author bio. It was my version of SEOing my site. lol)

-- The second time I couldn't deal with, because the person who stole it was in Mexico. I couldn't talk him into stopping that, and couldn't afford legal action.

All this to say, a writer's copyright is of utmost importance to the writer. What we say is from US, thus making it very personal. So, yup. Totally get why you were angry.

Depleted · Mar 27, 2018

Angela53510 said:

And, Icetech? That IS why Angela got angry. How would you feel if you researched a topic, wrote an article, and then someone said it wasn't your effort? Personally, I would have gone past schmuck in word choice. I would have used a word that would have gotten me banned from this site. BUT I also know that is a common problem I have for two reasons:
1. I'm disabled because of chronic pain.
2. I have insomnia.

So, in such a case, I would have walked away until I could calm down enough to lower the word to schmuck.

In your ceaseless pick-pick-picking of personal injustice to you. In your self-justified anger. In your state where something is truly wrong with your brain, two things you have not bothered to figure out:

1. She did apologize long ago.

2. You have absolutely no idea who she is. I have chronic pain and insomnia. Because I'm half brain-dead myself with the insomnia, I participate in threads like this. Angela's pain levels make my pain levels look like a paper cut! And my insomnia is a walk in the park compared to her insomnia. No one knows what causes my insomnia. Angela's is caused by overwhelming pain! And do you know what she does even in that conditions?

You really do. She showed you. She researches a topic and then shares what she learned. (And, she also learns languages so she can study the Bible in the languages it was written, as well as the languages previous scholars used to write their research.)

You didn't bother figuring out either of those things, because this is all about you!

Either you are one of the most arrogant people I've ever met on this site, (and that is saying a whole lot), or you have something seriously wrong with your brain. Either way, deal with that, because you have ignored what was said was dealt with at least 10 pages ago.

preacher4truth · Mar 27, 2018

Icetech said:

She didn't make a false accusation.

Tell me, what do you think of modern versions? The number 37? The number 3? 9?

Depleted · Mar 27, 2018

Icetech said:

Present the evidence. Angela sure didn't. I simply does not exist because I looked. Nothing but false accusations and name calling. You may not agree with what posted but was it copy and pasted off of a website as was claimed. Talk about double standards in this forum. I made a slight comment and was attacked and name called. She flat out called James37 a liar and PRODUCED NO EVIDENCE! HYPOCRISY (this is not directed at you Lucy)

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

That log in your eye has a name. General Sherman!

Women should not be allowed to preach in church

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