Women should not be allowed to preach in church

[Icetech]

Why can't a man discern between worldly government and the church?

1 Timothy 2:12 is biblical authority and has it's foundation in Genesis 3 and in verse 16 in particular. Paul, a man was given authority concerning the church as well as the other apostles. A man has authority in his own household. God does not like anarchy and rebellion.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Really?


The 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] book of the Bible is Levitcus, did you forget that!



Pi is actually 3.141..... and not 3.145.......

These are recent posts by Angela so I probably could compile a massive list of mistakes since she is approaching 10000 posts. The point is people make simple honest mistakes so it is very disingenuous of her to use as a tool to attack ones competency.

I'm loathe to talk to you but I feel someone needs to point out to you that she said afterwards in her post that she was just joshing. I feel that if no one points out what you missed that you will continue in this until we all become ill...

 

[Icetech]

I agree that Paul has authority or otherwise his writing would not be part of scripture. Still, he did say that 'he' does not permit women to preach or have positions of authority, it does not say that God does not permit. The key word is 'he'. All words in the bible are there for a reason. Paul was stating his positon based on his own spiritual perspective which may, or may not be binding. In his writings there are other such examples as well.

The key word is actually "I" such as 1 Timothy 6:13-14

"I give thee charge in the sight of God......That thou keep this commandment without spot"

The word "I" occurs around 700 times in Paul's epistles and I am confident that many of the usages will mirror 1 Timothy 2:12 and no one would dare to make this same argument in those examples lest they be labeled a Bible rejecting heretic,

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

First you say, none of you listen to Angela. Then you contradict and say you DO listen to her because the HS tells you to. Don't include ME in the bunch of you who don't listen to her. I may not read every one of her posts, or always agree with everything she says, but I DO listen to her when she speaks.

You missed my point. The man asked, who is Angela that I should listen to her?

My point was that we don't listen to Angela because we have taken it upon ourselves to make her of any authority. It is the Spirit Himself who gives her authority with us.

 

[Icetech]

I'm loathe to talk to you but I feel someone needs to point out to you that she said afterwards in her post that she was just joshing. I feel that if no one points out what you missed that you will continue in this until we all become ill...

To men in general sure she did but the comment was a stab to me nonetheless that warranted a response.

 

[tourist]

The key word is actually "I" such as 1 Timothy 6:13-14

"I give thee charge in the sight of God......That thou keep this commandment without spot"

The word "I" occurs around 700 times in Paul's epistles and I am confident that many of the usages will mirror 1 Timothy 2:12 and no one would dare to make this same argument in those examples lest they be labeled a Bible rejecting heretic,

A heretic is just someone who holds a contrary opinion that another person finds objectionable. A lot of people have made this same argument, thousands in fact. I'm certainly not a bible rejecting heretic although I have been called much worse.

 

[tourist]

You missed my point. The man asked, who is Angela that I should listen to her?

My point was that we don't listen to Angela because we have taken it upon ourselves to make her of any authority. It is the Spirit Himself who gives her authority with us.

I perfectly understood what you were saying. In fact, you paid Angela a high compliment. You have also raised an interesting point about the Spirit that is worth considering.

 

[Depleted]

In the same way you need much eisegese for to find arguments for your position. Nobody wonders that nobody can find clear historical reports that women were eldest ore pastors ore were in position to preach in church. If it would be normal in the early church we would find clear hints for that in the first centuries, but we dont find them. You have to use non clear examples like Junias for that. But the bible speaks clear against your view.

I believe that's called deduction from no evidence. Not working for you.

No, there are no "clear hints" in the first couple of centuries. There is very little, if downright nothing about the evidence of what happened in the first couple of centuries in the church. Why? For roughly the reason we wouldn't have much history of the underdogs in Germany had Hitler's extermination plan worked for 200 years. Rome was out to destroy Christianity, so Christians hid. And, quite often they were discovered. And when they were discovered, after the soldiers killed them, they searched for their hidden stash of writings, found one, and destroyed those too.

After hiding in small groups for 200 years, the only things that made it through, were the second stash of hidden writings -- the writings the group decided were too important, so they hid them better than the "good stuff" pile. Any history of their particular group would have been included in the "good stuff" writings. The "too important" writings was the base for the Bible we have today.

So, you're thinking their are clear hints of what happened in the original church? There aren't! There are old bones in catacombs and the writings that became the NT. About all that is left of those first 200 years.

 

[Depleted]

Paul states in 2 Corinthians 3:12 that "we use plainness of speech." It is apparent some people do not like what the Bible has to say.

It is, however, that's from watching the junk you come up with and then call it, "what God said."

 

[Depleted]

There you have it ladies...we can't get up on that "pole pit..."

I'm 62. I can't pole pit at my age, even if I knew what that meant.

 

[Depleted]

I might regret this but what is eisegese?
I've been reading it in posts a lot lately...

Exegeteing is studying writing for what it really says.

Eisgeseing is studying to make the writing fit what you want it to say.

 

[Depleted]

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. ESV

But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. NASB

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[SUP][a][/SUP] she must be quiet. NIV

I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent. HCSB

I permit no woman[SUP][a][/SUP] to teach or to have authority over a man;[SUP][b][/SUP] she is to keep silent. NRSV

The list goes on and on…

So you are right and all of these translations are wrong?

Do you deny this?
Titus 2:1[FONT=&quot] But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 and so train the young women to love their husbands and children,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]6 Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.[/FONT]

And if you do not deny it, then pay particular attention to verses 6-8. Because you are a young man without self-control, integrity, and sound speech and those qualities are good.

Thus saith the older woman.

[SUB](BTW, I do not believe women should teach men their own age or older as a sermon. I obviously do believe women should be teaching men something. And this is why. Because no one has yet taught you about how to talk to your elders.)[/SUB]

 

[Icetech]

I do not deny it. Those quoted verses must be understood in their correct context which is part of the discussion.

 

[Icetech]

It is, however, that's from watching the junk you come up with and then call it, "what God said."

What junk do you speak of?

 

[Icetech]

A heretic is just someone who holds a contrary opinion that another person finds objectionable. A lot of people have made this same argument, thousands in fact. I'm certainly not a bible rejecting heretic although I have been called much worse.

I was not calling you a Bible rejecting heretic. The only point I wanted to make is there are instances where Paul uses the word "I" and no one would dare say it is just Paul's opinion.

 

[Depleted]

Nothing but a bunch of nonsense!! This is a perfect example of why women should not teach in the context of 2 Timothy 2.

And this is the reason you ignore Titus 2. You are so much better than everyone else, so we should all listen to you say very little, then blame it on God, as if you talk for him.

This is also why you won't be winning any converts, even if someone agreed with you.

Titus 2:[FONT=&quot]6 Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.[/FONT]

 

[Icetech]

We listen to the Spirit, who tells us to listen to her.

Unfortunately this may be a true statement..

2 Corinthians 11:14

There cannot be a contradiction between what Angela teaches and what the Bible states and that is debatable at this point.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think the only thing debatable at this point is whether you have the mind of God on ANYTHING that you could share with us or if all you have is dead letter.

 

[melita916]

So this thread is still going?

is there ice cream at least???



carry on.

 

[Icetech]

Nothing but a bunch of nonsense!! This is a perfect example of why women should not teach in the context of 2 Timothy 2.

And this is the reason you ignore Titus 2. You are so much better than everyone else, so we should all listen to you say very little, then blame it on God, as if you talk for him.

This is also why you won't be winning any converts, even if someone agreed with you.

Titus 2:6 Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled.7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.

I do regret the post that I made and it was in haste. Angela had previously posted a huge amount of information in a single post and followed it up with one equally as large when the argument she makes is already on the internet and a link to the appropriate site would have been sufficient.