Not By Works
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J
Yes that is one of the "main points" of being saved and born again,you are no longer your old self,and you are "never alone" and you "cannot sin willfully without being convicted by the holy spirit" it is not a "picnic".
To put things in perspective being saved and receiving the holy spirit is like "past pleasures" and "wants" being gradually over lapped by what Jesus wants us to be and "our thoughts" being shifted gradually to what Jesus wants us to think on such as scriptures "more abrubtly" coming to mind where as before "scriptures" were like "closed doors to wisdom" that only interested us for a time or for "justification" for our sins "to open"and then "close again" when "uninterested" where as through the holy spirit it's like "wisdom from God's word" becoming as if doors "open wide without even a lock to possibly shut the wisdom out with".
To put things in perspective being saved and receiving the holy spirit is like "past pleasures" and "wants" being gradually over lapped by what Jesus wants us to be and "our thoughts" being shifted gradually to what Jesus wants us to think on such as scriptures "more abrubtly" coming to mind where as before "scriptures" were like "closed doors to wisdom" that only interested us for a time or for "justification" for our sins "to open"and then "close again" when "uninterested" where as through the holy spirit it's like "wisdom from God's word" becoming as if doors "open wide without even a lock to possibly shut the wisdom out with".
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Too many go round and round over this issue. Having worked in the complex world of electronics and software I found the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method useful. So how does the law, sin, faith, and works relate to each other?
Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth pass away. Therefore we are under the 613 rules of the law as written in the Torah.
Sin is transgression of the law and we all sin.
The wages of sin is death.
Faith in Jesus removes the penalty of sin.
This faith produces works.
No works means dead faith.
Dead faith means we are still under the penalty of sin.
Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth pass away. Therefore we are under the 613 rules of the law as written in the Torah.
Sin is transgression of the law and we all sin.
The wages of sin is death.
Faith in Jesus removes the penalty of sin.
This faith produces works.
No works means dead faith.
Dead faith means we are still under the penalty of sin.
If only people would open their hearts and minds and even their eyes and ears to the TRUTH and admit to themselves that a DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE, there will be no quarrels, strife, arguments and misunderstandindgs, abuse, insults and cursings esp. apparent on a CHRISTIAN forum like this.
I just hope that everyone will contribute something for the benefit of the readers and the edification of the church acting as MATURE CHRISTIANS.
Philippians 3:12-15 Pressing on Toward the Goal Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.[/I][/U][/I][/B]
Hebrews 5:11-14 Warning Against Falling Away We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
James 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
Ephesians 4:12-16 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
I just hope that everyone will contribute something for the benefit of the readers and the edification of the church acting as MATURE CHRISTIANS.
Philippians 3:12-15 Pressing on Toward the Goal Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.[/I][/U][/I][/B]
Hebrews 5:11-14 Warning Against Falling Away We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
James 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
Ephesians 4:12-16 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
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Well, i had a conversation with the Redeemer last night.
And he gave me a something to Encourage us all with.
The Good News(you know Gospel)
So here is something for everyone who wants to participate.
Go out today, tonight, and the next few days. Everyone you meet Greet them with,, "Salvation Foundation!..", and then tell them to go and tell their friends also'"Salvation Foundation"
Nothing more nothing less.
And Lets see If God Hears your Petition,..stranger
And he gave me a something to Encourage us all with.
The Good News(you know Gospel)
So here is something for everyone who wants to participate.
Go out today, tonight, and the next few days. Everyone you meet Greet them with,, "Salvation Foundation!..", and then tell them to go and tell their friends also'"Salvation Foundation"
Nothing more nothing less.
And Lets see If God Hears your Petition,..stranger
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There have been differences of opinion on all kinds of theological issues since the early church. The elders back then created the Apostles Creed to define who is and isn't a Christian. All other issues we just have to agree to disagree on and still accept each other as brothers and sisters in Christ!!
Are you trying to place Christians under the yoke of slavery when the bible makes it clear that we have been set free from the law. And your second point is equally as foolish, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. James 2 has been gone through over and over again, Christians will have works but not unto salvation. We are saved unto good works not by them. Epheasians2:10 I can understand why an electronics engineer would find the complexity of the law appealing, but you have fallen from grace.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the law He kept the law perfectly, we could not and cannot today therefore Christ had to die and shed His blood on the cross. If you can keep the the law perfectly then Christ died needlessly. Of course you will not believe this.
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Eph.5:4
Freedom In Christ: Galatians 5:1-6
1) It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
3) Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
4) You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
5) For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the law He kept the law perfectly, we could not and cannot today therefore Christ had to die and shed His blood on the cross. If you can keep the the law perfectly then Christ died needlessly. Of course you will not believe this.
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Eph.5:4
Freedom In Christ: Galatians 5:1-6
1) It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
3) Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
4) You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
5) For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
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Jesus says He is the Life, He is the Way, and He is the Truth.
Jesus IS Salvation. We enter through being reborn in Him. HE is eternal life.
He is the Vine. We are His branches. As a result of being reborn in Him the fruit of the Spirit flows out of us.
If our focus is on something other than Jesus I believe we've missed it.
It is because we ARE saved that we can call Him Lord.
1 John 4:4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
Looking at this Scripture we see these statements: We have overcome. We are saved. We are His children.
Consider this:
If you think you're still being saved, how can you call yourself His children? By what power did you become His children? And if you became His children by the power of the Spirit, why do you think you can perfect yourself by the flesh?
Jesus IS Salvation. We enter through being reborn in Him. HE is eternal life.
He is the Vine. We are His branches. As a result of being reborn in Him the fruit of the Spirit flows out of us.
If our focus is on something other than Jesus I believe we've missed it.
It is because we ARE saved that we can call Him Lord.
1 John 4:4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
Looking at this Scripture we see these statements: We have overcome. We are saved. We are His children.
Consider this:
If you think you're still being saved, how can you call yourself His children? By what power did you become His children? And if you became His children by the power of the Spirit, why do you think you can perfect yourself by the flesh?
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Jack, no-one is against works that follow salvation, and I've yet to meet anyone on here saying that grace gives us an excuse/pass to sin. The issue is when someone makes additional requirements for salvation, when it should be Jesus only.
Are you not contradicting yourself? You agree that salvation cannot be earnt, but when you say it must be maintained by us, aren't you then making obedience a necessary requirement, in addition to the cross?
This reminds me a bit of the legalism in Galatea, which Paul spoke against, where they were trying to add law (circumcision) to the finished work of Jesus, and trying to drag believers back to bondage, when they had been set free.
Which scriptures do you cling to, to support that bit I highlighted in red?
Are you not contradicting yourself? You agree that salvation cannot be earnt, but when you say it must be maintained by us, aren't you then making obedience a necessary requirement, in addition to the cross?
This reminds me a bit of the legalism in Galatea, which Paul spoke against, where they were trying to add law (circumcision) to the finished work of Jesus, and trying to drag believers back to bondage, when they had been set free.
Which scriptures do you cling to, to support that bit I highlighted in red?