GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Jackson123

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Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

John 7:22-24, “Because of this Mosheh has given you the circumcision – though it is not from Mosheh, but from the fathers – and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the Torah of Mosheh should not be broken, are you wroth with Me because I made a man entirely well on the Sabbath? Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”


Why were they not sinning by breaking the Sabbath by “doing work” on the Sabbath? Because they are doing the will of YHWH, the true intent of the Sabbath day:

Isaiah 58:11-14, YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.


The true intent of the Sabbath day is not about only worshiping on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day, it is about doing His will and not doing our own will.

Mat 12:12, “And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath.”

and nobody is letting Jesus keep the Sabbath for them or "resting" in Jesus now, it sounds real nice but the rest Yahshua/Jesus offers is till future, as in when He returns:

Mat 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”


Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Jeremiah 6:16-17, “Thus said יהוה, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.” But they said, We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.’


so you believe it is lawfull to do righteousness on sabbath am I correct?

if the poor work on the Burger King in sabbath to earn money to buy a food for the family is that not right?

How about work to earn money to help the poor?

do you have a verse in the NT that specifically say, no more killing for sabbath violator, kindle fire is OK?
 

Jackson123

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They would have practised water baptism by total immersion in the rivers as did John the Baptist.

They would have taken communion as the Lord commanded.

They met in one-another's homes and they were extorted not to forsake the assembling of themselves together. (Heb 10:25)

They sang hymns, and they studied the Old Testament, presumably mainly the prophets.

The ladies would have worn hats.

This is off the top of my head, I'm sorry I can't offer scriptures just now, I would need to search them out.
thanks dear, I am looking for the specific verse that say, no more killing sabbath violator, no more banned for kindle fire etc.
 

Endoscopy

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HEBREWS 3-4 and MATTHEW 11:28-30 AND GOD'S SABBATH REST IN THE 4TH COMMANDMENT

Certainly, you will not enter God's REST if you do not BELIEVE his WORD and you continue in SIN.

Hebrews 3
8,
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10, Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11, So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12, Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14, For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end;
15, While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16, For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17, But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
18, And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19, So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

WHAT REST ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

Hebrews 4
1,
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2, For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3, For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4, For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

God's REST is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5). Those who BELIEVE GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD does on the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

6, Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7, Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8, For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9, There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.
10, For he that is entered into his rest (SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11, Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).


Now let's compare Matthew 11:28-30 with Hebrews 4.....


....................

Mattehew 11
28,
Come to me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29, Take my yoke on you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.
30, For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

STRONGS GREEK REST meaning; G373 ἀναπαύω anapauo (a-na-pav'-ō) v.
1. (reflexively) to repose, to rest.
2. (literally or figuratively) to be exempt, to remain.
3. (by implication) to refresh.
[from G303 and G3973]
KJV: take ease, refresh, (give, take) rest
Root(s): G303, G3973

G303
ἀνά ana (a-na') prep.
1. (properly) up.
2. (by extension, used distributively) amidst or severally, etc.
3. (by implication, as a prefix) (it often means) repetition (again), intensity, reversal, etc.
4. apiece.
5. (of combined motion) back.
6. (with G3319) through (the midst).

G3973 παύω pauo (pav'-ō) v.
to stop, i.e. restrain, quit, desist, come to an end.
{transitively or intransitively}
[a primary verb (“pause”)]
KJV: cease, leave, refrain

....................

Now compare this GREEK word used here to the one used in Hebrews 4:9...

Hebrews 4
9, There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

The GREEk Word used here is different.

STRONGS GREEK/HEBERW REST meaning of Hebrews 4:9;
G4520 σαββατισμός sabbatismos (sab-ba-tiz-mos') n.
1. a “sabbatism.”
2. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven).

[from a derivative of G4521] σάββατον sabbaton (saɓ'-ɓa-ton) n.
1. the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath).
2. a day of weekly repose from secular avocations.
3. the observance or institution itself.
4. (by extension) a week, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths.
5. likewise the plural in all the above applications.

[of Hebrew origin (H7676)]
שַׁבָּת shabbath (shab-bawth') n-e.
1. intermission, a period of temporary rest.
2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest.

[intensive from H7673]
H7673 שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v.
to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.
{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}
[a primitive root] KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

....................

As you can see from the different GREEK words used in Matthew 11:28 and Hebrews 4:9 both words are indeed different and have a different application.

Both are similar referring to rest but the word REST in Hebrews 4:9 in is reference "Sabbatismos" which is the "REST"specifically found in God's Sabbath the 4th Commandment that refers right back the Hebrew WORD used for rest in Genesis 2.

Let's look at the origin of the Sabbath and God's 4th Commandment...

Genesis 2
1,
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

[intensive from H7673]
H7673 שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v.
to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.
{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}
[a primitive root] KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

The above HEBREW meaning is the base root of Sabbatismos from the GREEK word used in Hebrews 4:9 which is referring right back to the origin of God's Sabbath in Genesis 2 and God's 4th Commandment in Exodus 20:8-11.

The meraning here is the REST that comes specifically from BELIEVING and OBEYING Gods WORD' from God's 4th Commandment Sabbath. This is the SABBATH rest according to the commandment.

......................

You have no peace because you do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. We ONLY have rest in Christ if we BELIEVE and FOLLOW Jesus. Those who are still in their SINS do not KNOW God and are like the troubled see that have no peace.

Isaiah 57
20,
But the wicked (SINNERS) are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21, There is no peace, said my God, to the wicked.

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
You keep ignoring a fact about forums. Long posts are mostly ignored. This long idiocy is a prime example of this. Use the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method. I used it in my job both in electronics and software. It also works well in communicating ideas. Short and simple works best. I for example didn't bother to read more than a few sentences of this post you made.
 

lightbearer

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You keep ignoring a fact about forums. Long posts are mostly ignored. This long idiocy is a prime example of this. Use the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method. I used it in my job both in electronics and software. It also works well in communicating ideas. Short and simple works best. I for example didn't bother to read more than a few sentences of this post you made.
If I am speaking to someone I read their post regardless how long they are.
You just don’t have a rebuttal. It’s OK; There is none.
 

PS

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thanks dear, I am looking for the specific verse that say, no more killing sabbath violator, no more banned for kindle fire etc.
Sorry, I didn't realise that. I would have thought the 6th commandment would have covered it, reinforced be Christ's own example of working on the Sabbath coupled with his teaching regarding the Good Samaritan etc., who according to Judaism (another 'ism) were working.

If people are not prepared to accept the New Covenant God made with his people and keep reverting back to Old Testament law, then quite frankly I do not know what they are doing on a Christian forum.
 
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Endoscopy

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Quite right Gal 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV


ὑπὸ νόμον in Galatians means Under Law [no article] the sense intended is Governed by the Spirit rather than by Law.


Rom 3:19
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
KJV


While ἐν τῷ νόμῳ in Rom 3:19 literally says IN THE LAW. The sense is not only 'subject to the law'; but ἐν τῷ refers back to the previous subject namely Rom 3:17-18
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
KJV
First I detest the KJV since it confuses people being written in 1611 and the English language has changed much over the centuries. An example is the commandment "Thou shalt not kill." in 1611 kill meant murder. This is one of the more blatant changes while there are some more subtle changes. ALL LANGUAGES ARE DYNAMIC. Latin morphed into Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, etc. All of the Romance languages descended from Latin. 400 hundred years of changes between KJV and today. NIV is a modern translation in today's English for example I quite often use the Amplified Classic version to glean more understanding. It gives multiple meanings of a word. Here is an example.

John 3:16 NIV
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16 AMPC
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
 

Studyman

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Sorry, I didn't realise that. I would have thought the 6th commandment would have covered it, reinforced be Christ's own example of working on the Sabbath coupled with his teaching regarding the Good Samaritan etc., who according to Judaism (another 'ism) were working.

If people are not prepared to accept the New Covenant God made with his people and keep reverting back to Old Testament law, then quite frankly I do not know what they are doing on a Christian forum.
This is a Bible discussion forum. I am interested in what God's Word says, not ancient Catholic traditions. God's word when describing the New Covenant says nothing about destroying, changing, altering, any of God's Instructions. In fact Jesus teaches just the opposite.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So you're preaching that the New Covenant erased God's Instructions isn't supported by the Word. This is the main problem I have with your religion. You teach for doctrines the commandments of men, not from God. The last religion that did this Jesus rejected.
 

PS

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All God's Commands are about our behavior towards God and other people. The entire Law and Prophets. IMO.
You are right for once, but the reason for what I said, was because I was responding to a post about bestiality.
 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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This is a Bible discussion forum. I am interested in what God's Word says, not ancient Catholic traditions. God's word when describing the New Covenant says nothing about destroying, changing, altering, any of God's Instructions. In fact Jesus teaches just the opposite.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So you're preaching that the New Covenant erased God's Instructions isn't supported by the Word. This is the main problem I have with your religion. You teach for doctrines the commandments of men, not from God. The last religion that did this Jesus rejected.
"Christian Chat"​
 

Jackson123

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Sorry, I didn't realise that. I would have thought the 6th commandment would have covered it, reinforced be Christ's own example of working on the Sabbath coupled with his teaching regarding the Good Samaritan etc., who according to Judaism (another 'ism) were working.

If people are not prepared to accept the New Covenant God made with his people and keep reverting back to Old Testament law, then quite frankly I do not know what they are doing on a Christian forum.
6 th commandment is do not kill it is in the OT, but kill sabbath violator is also command from God.

So I still do not know where in the NT say stop killing sabbath violator.

I need to know if sabbatarian not kill sabbath violator base on the Bible or tradition of man
 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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6 th commandment is do not kill it is in the OT, but kill sabbath violator is also command from God.

So I still do not know where in the NT say stop killing sabbath violator.

I need to know if sabbatarian not kill sabbath violator base on the Bible or tradition of man
Have you sot the scripture reference to hand? I think you will find it is one of the 613 Mitzvot laws that were written by the priesthood after they came out of Babylonian exile.
 

Endoscopy

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Sorry, I didn't realise that. I would have thought the 6th commandment would have covered it, reinforced be Christ's own example of working on the Sabbath coupled with his teaching regarding the Good Samaritan etc., who according to Judaism (another 'ism) were working.

If people are not prepared to accept the New Covenant God made with his people and keep reverting back to Old Testament law, then quite frankly I do not know what they are doing on a Christian forum.
Here is what Jesus said about the law.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.


As you were saying about the law!
 
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Endoscopy

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6 th commandment is do not kill it is in the OT, but kill sabbath violator is also command from God.

So I still do not know where in the NT say stop killing sabbath violator.

I need to know if sabbatarian not kill sabbath violator base on the Bible or tradition of man
You are using the KJV. In modern translations it is "You shall not murder." in 1611 kill meant murder!!! This is the problem with KJV. Language is dynamic and 400 years sees lots of changes. Use a modern translation for better understanding of the Bible.
 

PS

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6 th commandment is do not kill it is in the OT, but kill sabbath violator is also command from God.

So I still do not know where in the NT say stop killing sabbath violator.

I need to know if sabbatarian not kill sabbath violator base on the Bible or tradition of man
Here we are. It was given only to the Israelites.

Exo 31:12-18 KJV
(12) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
(13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
(14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
(15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
(16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
(17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
(18) And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
 

PS

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Here we are. It was given only to the Israelites.

Exo 31:12-18 KJV
(12) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
(13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
(14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
(15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
(16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
(17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
(18) And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Quite frankly I have a problem with killing people, due to the 6th commandment.
 

Magenta

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Quite frankly I have a problem with killing people, due to the 6th commandment.
Killing is not commanded against, but murder. Murder is killing illegally.
 

Endoscopy

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Basic gospel.

Sin is transgression of the law.
We all sin.
The penalty of sin is death at judgement.
Jesus sacrificed himself as the unblemished Lamb of God.
Accepting Jesus as our savior removes the penalty of sin.
Our sin is imputed to Him.
His righteousness is imputed to us.

I give thanks to God for this. Knowing the end from the begining He saw the Crucifixion of Jesus required to save those who accepted His sacrifice.
 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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Killing is not commanded against, but murder. Murder is killing illegally.
Hello Magenta, when I think of Jesus who I believe is God with us (Immanuel) and the commandments he gave to us about turning the other cheek for example, and not to insult people by calling them fools, then I still have a problem with the premeditated taking of life, which in actuality, is murder. :)
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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Killing is not commanded against, but murder. Murder is killing illegally.
The problem is 400 years of language changes.
KJV Thou shall not kill.
NIV You shall not murder.

Notice verse 7.

Here is the 10 commandments in KJV and NIV.
10 commandments KJV and NIV

Exodus 20 King James Version (KJV)

1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


Exodus 20 New International Version (NIV)

The Ten Commandments
1 And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Basic gospel.

Sin is transgression of the law.
We all sin.
The penalty of sin is death at judgement.
Jesus sacrificed himself as the unblemished Lamb of God.
Accepting Jesus as our savior removes the penalty of sin.
Our sin is imputed to Him.
His righteousness is imputed to us.

I give thanks to God for this. Knowing the end from the begining He saw the Crucifixion of Jesus required to save those who accepted His sacrifice.
"At Judgement" (end times) and by God, not by man.