Not By Works

LightLoveHope · Mar 9, 2018

Let me make a simple point that shows how untrue this is.

Cornelius was listened to be God for his gifts to the poor and his prayers to God.
He was neither a jew nor a christian, yet God heard him and rewarded his deeds.

It makes a farce of the idea God does not see all people do, and even sinners who
do good things, He values.

It is the enemy who spreads the idea right deeds have no value, and those who
spread such ideas are just doing his work.

Ariel82 · Mar 9, 2018

I have a very simple view....it's focused on Jesus and He teaches me all I need to know via His Holy spirit.

He tells me I am God's beloved child and He will never forsake me...why make it difficult when God simply says "He still and Know I am God."?

Ariel82 · Mar 9, 2018

1 Corinthians 11 v 3
Berean Study Bible
I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
But I am afraid, lest by any means, as the serpent in his craftiness deceived Eve, your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity in Christ.

New American Standard Bible
But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

King James Bible
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

gb9 · Mar 9, 2018

LightLoveHope said:

the Bible records Cornelius as being a God-fearing man. in the greek, that means he was already a believer in the Jewish God , and most like was a partial convert to Judaism . he was not just some random gentile who did not know Yahwah.

so, more deception. just more of the same.

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

gb9 said:

The more he talks and tries to justify his working for sinless pefectionist dogma....the more obvious it is that he rejects a plethora of truth that is contrary to his beliefs....just like PJ that peddle the exact same dogma.....Sometimes I fell like I am on Bombay watching the old dude on the corner in the red hat with the street organ and dancing monkey holding the can collecting chump change......it amazes me how Jesus is devalued by these people while they lift themselves and works up to a point of being above the work, ministry, powers, amd promises of Jesus....

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

gb9 said:

The more he talks and tries to justify his working for sinless pefectionist dogma....the more obvious it is that he rejects a plethora of truth that is contrary to his beliefs....just like PJ that peddle the exact same dogma.....Sometimes I fell like I am on Bombay watching the old dude on the corner in the red hat with the street organ and dancing monkey holding the can collecting chump change......it amazes me how Jesus is devalued by these people while they lift themselves and works up to a point of being above the work, ministry, powers, amd promises of Jesus....

Endoscopy · Mar 9, 2018

VCO said:

><>.t.<><

Look at verse 1 John 3:17, IT IS HOW GOD'S LOVE MANIFESTS IT'S WAY OUT OF US. IT IS NOT OUR WORKS THAT COUNT, IS IT IS ONLY THOSE WORKS MOTIVATED BY GOD'S LOVE, THAT COUNTS. If HE is in you, let HIM have control. It is GOD's Love that must wag the DOGS TAIL, or it is nothing but a Pile of Filthy Rags. You are robbing God of His Glory for what HE is doing in your Life.

1 John 3:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Isaiah 64:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

SELF MOTIVATED WORKS, are of no Value to GOD, only those works that are MOTIVATED by GOD's LOVE within you, are counted as Valuable to GOD.

That is why Paul said this:

Romans 7:18 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.

Romans 7:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this dying body?

Galatians 2:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if we ourselves are also found to be “sinners” while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not!

Galatians 2:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Thank HIM everyday for the opportunity and the ability to LOVE OTHERS with HIS LOVE. Then you will be GLORIFYING GOD, instead of just patting yourself on the back.

When discussing faith and works as stated in the Bible works is done because of the love included in faith. It comes from our love of Jesus for his sacrifice for us. You belabor the point for no real reason. It is part and parcel of our love because of faith producing our works. Without the blood of Jesus covering us our best works are as dirty rags to God because they are tainted by our sin nature living in us as stated by Paul. Though we desire to do good we fail because of the law of sin in us. This is what causes us to sin. Are you claimimg you are sinless?

Endoscopy · Mar 9, 2018

VCO said:

When discussing faith and works as stated in the Bible works is done because of the love included in faith. It comes from our love of Jesus for his sacrifice for us. You belabor the point for no real reason. It is part and parcel of our love because of faith producing our works. Without the blood of Jesus covering us our best works are as dirty rags to God because they are tainted by our sin nature living in us as stated by Paul. Though we desire to do good we fail because of the law of sin in us. This is what causes us to sin. Are you claimimg you are sinless? You mistate what Paul said.

Endoscopy · Mar 9, 2018

Paul was discussing the issue of wanting to do good but failing because of the law of sin living in him. This is what causes all of us to sin. Transgression of the law is sin. None except Jesus has kept the 613 rules of the law found in the Torah.

Don't understand the double post by editing the original one adding a sentence.

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2018

One thing I think many flat deny, reject or overlook is the simple truth that WE produce NOTHING.....it is tue ROOT that produces through the VINE.....JESUS is the ROOT and he is the ONE PRODUCING THROUGH US as a living sacrifice and exactly why ALL glory goes to him and why works do not save, keep saved or top off salvation.....we are placed into the Vine by faith and being born from above/saved/redeemed and then through growth, maturity and transformation he BEGINS TO PRODUCE THROUGH US.......!

VCO · Mar 9, 2018

Endoscopy said:

When discussing faith and works as stated in the Bible works is done because of the love included in faith. It comes from our love of Jesus for his sacrifice for us. You belabor the point for no real reason. It is part and parcel of our love because of faith producing our works. Without the blood of Jesus covering us our best works are as dirty rags to God because they are tainted by our sin nature living in us as stated by Paul. Though we desire to do good we fail because of the law of sin in us. This is what causes us to sin. Are you claimimg you are sinless? You mistate what Paul said.

Man you sure do not know me, I am a Sinner saved by GRACE ALONE.

Endoscopy · Mar 10, 2018

VCO said:

Obviously you didn't correctly read my post!! What do you call the blood of Christ covering us except grace? I didn't use the word but listed the method. A fuller statement is we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus blood covering our sins. Thus we impute our sins to Him and He imputes His rightness to those of us who accept Him as savior.

Endoscopy · Mar 10, 2018

Grace means we are unable to earn salvation by any action we take. Only believing on Jesus saves us.

Shamah · Mar 10, 2018

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:14, “Afterward [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]found him in the Set-apart Place, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse matter befalls you.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:11, “And she said, “No one, Master.” And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

LightLoveHope · Mar 10, 2018

gb9 said:

Cornelius was neither a jew nor a christian. Of course he believed in God which is where
his focus was. Now you view of the gospel is either you are part of your free grace beliefs
or one is doomed.

You then choose people who you decide must be part of your group, because God blessed
them, or not because they are rejected or judged.

By this criteria I must be part of your group, because I walk with the Lord and know His
word and Holy Spirit bearing truth and life in my life. Now your only reason for attempting
to condemn me is because I am not part of your group and its insane belief system.

Now that is deception, because you actually have no reason to disown me. Your actual
reason is if I have the Holy Spirit, and walk like Jesus, I must be lying because that is impossible.
I do not claim to walk like Jesus or be perfect or have arrived, and that I have not sinned in the
past. I cannot tell you about the future because it has not happened. I can say I walk with
Jesus, so it is going from one state of glory to the next.

Do you not see you are actually judging Jesus and the fulfillment of the cross?

It is like someone who wants to see the world is out to get them will always find reasons
to believe it, while someone else who sees God blesses us all everyday, with love and
grace, sees it as well. How does Jesus want to look at life.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8

You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
Galatians 5:13-15

If the fruit of the hearts of those here was encouragement, they would not write and share as
they do to people desiring to know and follow Jesus. But to all who desire more of Him, Amen
Praise the Lord.

LightLoveHope · Mar 10, 2018

dcontroversal said:

The more you lie about what I am saying, it just deludes you and anyone who wants
to listen to you.

You think that if you had a pure loving heart you would share as you do? No.
You would prize the love and grace that resides in any hearts, because this is rare,
and mainly people are over burden with hurt, pain and sin.

The problem with our hearts is always they will justify not changing and paying a
price of sacrifice for love and life, but that is what Jesus calls us to every day.

Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it.
What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?"
Luke 9:23-25

I would please ask you one question. A man who asks His followers to do the above,
do you think he would then say, I do not mind how you live your life? No.
You would have to be deluded to think this man, this Lord, Messiah, God, the creator
would say or mean such a thing.

gb9 · Mar 10, 2018

LightLoveHope said:

Cornelius was neither a jew nor a christian. Of course he believed in God which is where
his focus was. Now you view of the gospel is either you are part of your free grace beliefs
or one is doomed.

You then choose people who you decide must be part of your group, because God blessed
them, or not because they are rejected or judged.

By this criteria I must be part of your group, because I walk with the Lord and know His
word and Holy Spirit bearing truth and life in my life. Now your only reason for attempting
to condemn me is because I am not part of your group and its insane belief system.

Now that is deception, because you actually have no reason to disown me. Your actual
reason is if I have the Holy Spirit, and walk like Jesus, I must be lying because that is impossible.
I do not claim to walk like Jesus or be perfect or have arrived, and that I have not sinned in the
past. I cannot tell you about the future because it has not happened. I can say I walk with
Jesus, so it is going from one state of glory to the next.

Do you not see you are actually judging Jesus and the fulfillment of the cross?

It is like someone who wants to see the world is out to get them will always find reasons
to believe it, while someone else who sees God blesses us all everyday, with love and
grace, sees it as well. How does Jesus want to look at life.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8

You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
Galatians 5:13-15

If the fruit of the hearts of those here was encouragement, they would not write and share as
they do to people desiring to know and follow Jesus. But to all who desire more of Him, Amen
Praise the Lord.

it is fine for the fruits of our heart to be encouragement , as long as that is balanced with truth and honesty. emotions do not determine what is true. facts do. facts need to override emotions.

LightLoveHope · Mar 10, 2018

Ariel82 said:

why make it difficult?

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7:14

My quest in my life is not to define life or the Lord, but to learn life and know the Lord.
So the answers maybe simple or maybe complex before we start.

If you read the bible, begin to learn the layers, you will begin to see it is a mystery.
It is both light, and subtle, almost one thing but also another.

How can God judge a man for steadying the ark of the covenant, swallow into the
ground Korah, slaughter Jericho, yet pardon a thief on a cross for some revelation
they had over a few hours.

How can God the creator become a man, tell us He will do all we ask, but leave us
wondering why things do not work out simply? If God loves, why so much suffering,
why has technology changed so much, yet God could have brought this about.

Or creation in 6 days, yet it appears to take billions. Or the law is good, yet we seem
to fail so easily.

So it is difficult, no one is making it like this, it is what it is.
The instant security folk want cotton wool reality, and are not prepared to meet the
burning fire. We are so unbelievably blessed today, with so much knowledge yet how
many read scripture every day, or ponder on the deep things of God or relationships or
love. The impure heart will always destroy their owner and excuse anything to avoid
resolution.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin
1 John 1:5-7

This forum is always just a taster of something more in Jesus. So walk on, follow
drink deeply, and let Gods word and Holy Spirit lead the way, Amen.

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 10, 2018

LightLoveHope said:

She said motive matters. You say this is untrue.

Heart motive is everything to God. It is EVERYTHING to Him. It is how He judges - not outwardly as men do, but inwardly, in the hearts motives.

benhur · Mar 10, 2018

dcontroversal said:

According to your belief system, I don't have to worry a bit. I believe and I have faith, and I trust Jesus, therefore I am saved. (in past tense). If I decide to obey the commandments of Jesus or not, it is of little concern, since I have been saved. That's how it works, right?

And if that is not right, tell me where I am wrong?

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