Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so belief without works is dead also."


James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”
AND James is not talking about SALVATION, that happens at the moment we first believed. He is talking about HOW GOD'S LOVE will manifest itself OUT in the way that we treat others.

WHEN DID WE GET THAT KIND OF LOVE?
In the MOMENT WE FIRST BELIEVED.


Romans 5:5 (NCV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And this hope will never disappoint us, because God has poured out his love to fill our hearts. He gave us his love through the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to us.

1 John 3:17 (NCV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Suppose someone has enough to live and sees a brother or sister in need, but does not help.
Then God’s love is not living in that person.
Not about salvation?

So what does this part mean?

"This belief is unable to save him"

James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."[/FONT]
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I'm just wondering how hard it is for you to either say YES or NO to confirm or negate something. So i'll just take this as a NO which means that YOU DISAGREE that a DEAD FAITH cannot save and that Faith without works is DEAD.which brings me to the conclusion that you’re really just trying to divide instead of edifying the church. (jude 1:18-19, james 2:22, romans 14:19)

Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Rejecting Scriptures that do not fit and go against your FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE is rejection and trampling under foot of God’s WORD which is the SPIRIT ( john 1:1-3 & 14, 6:63, hebrews 10:26-29, 2 timothy 3:16-17, mark 7:6-13)

Matthew 12:31-37 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the son of man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. YOU BROOD OF VIPERS, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED”


Apostle James words;

... As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

... should be received as God’s own words since they were inspired and led by the Holy Spirit and therefore wrote what they have heard and understood from Christs teachings.

Our Lord Jesus said;

“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?(luke 6:46)

...Who are the ones calling Jesus as their Lord and yet do not do what He says? Are they not those who CLAIM to have Faith but one which is DEAD.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

...So what did Jesus say to them?

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

...And what would he say to them who have FAITH WITHOUT WORKS which is a DEAD FAITH that cannot save?

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

...BECAUSE...

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you EVILDOERS.’

...And why are they called EVILDOERS?

1 John 2:3-4 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Assume what you want to assume....I could care less what you think or your view.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Why is it so hard for you to state faith without works is dead? Works is what proves the faith is not a dead faith.
Why is it so hard for you to state that faith alone is what saves a man....end of story!
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
This is an obvious false statement. Believer's rejoice "together" knowing we will once be united with Christ at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. A bright light should be held up for all to see, not to be put under a peck measure. I know whom my brothers and sisters are in Christ and we rejoice in the fact that we will see each other in heaven, no secrets in God's family.

Notice to forum LightLoveHope is going on ignore, why because I do not want to be exposed to this nonsense.

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1Jn5:13
I have to say, once you believe you know, you are becoming God himself.
It would be nice to believe everyone in a church congregation knows the Lord, or our walk
is the same, and equally blessed.

But take a look at cc.
The spread of conviction, life issues, walk, faith, spirituality vary this much in a reasonable
sized congregation. Some are definatly not saved and come for fellowship, because they
like the people. But we can all praise the Lord and know His blessing as we worship.

Jesus said this about His body the church

Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
"'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
"'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"
Matthew 13:24-29

Now the agenda of some is to actually attempt weeding out, and they do not care
who they hurt or disturb, because their intention is not of the Lord.
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
Why is it so hard for you to state faith without works is dead? Works is what proves the faith is not a dead faith.
If they were to declare this, their hearts which are impure and compromised would condemn them.
Their conscience would rise up and tell them issues they need to resolve and work through.

It is this that drives their theology and hearts, light outside but darkness within.
No matter where they run, the same remains.

The problem is so acute to even say ones heart is the essence of who one is, is too much.
They are prepared to deny their own existence, some going so far as to say they really
are a new perfect spirit that has been created by God and implanted within, and the
old self is their heart which will die when they are resurrected, which they call the flesh.

The problem is this split means they are doomed to die, because they wish to deny their
own existence and that God has saved them and changed them if they repent, confess
and come to Him in faith for cleansing and being healed.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Why is it so hard for you to state that faith alone is what saves a man....end of story!
it's probably pride

the inability to surrender to Gods righteousness...



i see many of the "workers"
going all out on here lately



it's sad


i really wish God would open their eyes
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
it's probably pride

the inability to surrender to Gods righteousness...

i see many of the "workers"
going all out on here lately

it's sad

i really wish God would open their eyes
The Church where I was baptized and learned the fundamentals of the faith would not allow any new member to have a ministry until they were active with the membership for about one year. The reason for this rule was as you say "Pride" Most Churches will offer a "Fundamentals of the Faith", class. These classes are small (4 to 10 people)and designed to give you a solid foundation of your new born faith where you may grow and become fruitful in the work of the ministry of the Church.

"Empty trucks make more noise" and I would bet that a lot of these winers about doing their wonderful works to keep and maintain their eternal salvation are doing just that, crying at nothing and blowing a lot of hot air. A true believer does not need to brag about how many good works they may have, God knows the motivation of each believers heart. Pride is the original sin and it will kill any good ministry.

I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." Isaiah14:14
 
Last edited:

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
I have to say, once you believe you know, you are becoming God himself.
It would be nice to believe everyone in a church congregation knows the Lord, or our walk
is the same, and equally blessed.
You are a false teacher and I wish you would kindly refrain from responding to my posts,

of course you probably will not.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113



Notice to this thread; LightLoveHope is on my ignore list.
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
You are a false teacher and I wish you would kindly refrain from responding to my posts,
of course you probably will not.
Greeting TruthTalk,

I think you do not understand the principle of forums and public discussion threads.
They are open to people to respond, but not necessarily to one individual but to the
points being made. It is this openness that makes them live.

You do love these direct comments "false teacher" but unfortunately unless you specify
what you are disagreeing with it is just you do not like or agree with something, without
saying what it is. I do not like this approach, and am surprised you claim authority to
talk like this, without any justification. This is the critical tactics of cult leaders, of people
who believe in aggressive and confrontational behavior against people they feel threatened
by has value, but it always backfires.

I wonder what is so threatening and you feel so vulnerable about.
Maybe this scripture which you cannot look at is the crucial reality.

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thess 4:7-8

Now if I am a false teacher to share Gods calling, you are the false teacher and rebelling against
God. I wonder if you understand how serious such a thing is, but I would suggest based on you
attitude you fulfill what Jesus described people as being

For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.
Matt 13:15
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0

Notice to this thread; LightLoveHope is on my ignore list.
Hey guys, TruthTalk cannot see what I am writing, so if you want to let him know
please do, it is a service he needs.

I have wondered why people use ignore lists, because it is better to learn how to
control ones responses, when provoked than not know what is being said.

And so many have said so so is on my ignore list, and then they look anyway.
So it does make me laugh, because it is really declaring not being able to cope with
a variety of opinions and approaches to faith. And if one claims to have been in
ministry, one wonders how effective this was if such things were so upsetting.

Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus, Amen.
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
I suddenly thought, I am being exalted to the level of a teacher.

Thankyou for the complement, but I have only one teacher, the Holy Spirit, and I share
what He has brought to my heart. I pray that it might be a blessing and help.

And to be honest if a Free Grace believer calls me a false teacher, Amen, I would seriously
worry if they did not find my sharing a challenge. God bless you all
 
U

Ugly

Guest
So it does make me laugh, because it is really declaring not being able to cope with
a variety of opinions and approaches to faith. And if one claims to have been in
ministry, one wonders how effective this was if such things were so upsetting.
That's your interpretation. It doesn't mean it's the only one or the right one. There can be various reasons for adding someone to ignore. Not just one single, negative concept you see.
And due to your limited view it causes you to make assumptions or judge the heart/capacities/situation someone is in.
We sometimes have users that will follow another user around the site and constantly attack them or their posts.
Also you have no idea what one may be going through in their lives making it more difficult for them to cope with things and they may need the relief.
Yet you assume it's only intolerant people that use it.

And you tall about others inability to use control, but when someone makes it clear they don't want to hear you you then encourage others to pass your message on, showing a lack of respect and a lack if control and a need to be heard no matter what. All the while insulting that person's character.

No wonder they put you on ignore. Insulting someone with a smile and a friendly time is still an insult, no matter how you mask it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
If they were to declare this, their hearts which are impure and compromised would condemn them.
Their conscience would rise up and tell them issues they need to resolve and work through.

It is this that drives their theology and hearts, light outside but darkness within.
No matter where they run, the same remains.

The problem is so acute to even say ones heart is the essence of who one is, is too much.
They are prepared to deny their own existence, some going so far as to say they really
are a new perfect spirit that has been created by God and implanted within, and the
old self is their heart which will die when they are resurrected, which they call the flesh.

The problem is this split means they are doomed to die, because they wish to deny their
own existence and that God has saved them and changed them if they repent, confess
and come to Him in faith for cleansing and being healed.
This right here is the same crap Peter pushed.....very judgmental as it judges one's heart and motive and to be honest is nothing more than your twisted opinion!
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
909
252
63
I suddenly thought, I am being exalted to the level of a teacher.

Thankyou for the complement, but I have only one teacher, the Holy Spirit, and I share
what He has brought to my heart. I pray that it might be a blessing and help.

And to be honest if a Free Grace believer calls me a false teacher, Amen, I would seriously
worry if they did not find my sharing a challenge. God bless you all

Grace is free.....and the Word tells us that....you obtained the Holy Spirit by....hmm....what was it again? Oh yeah, GRACE!!! Did you work for it? Umm......well let's see, I didn't work for mine, I just believed in my heart that Jesus was my Lord and Savior and BOOM, He sent me the Holy Spirit. My question is.........how did you work to receive yours when mine was free?