Not By Works

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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#56,601
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#56,601
eternally-gratefull said:
You really think that is what Jesus meant when he said our righteousness must exceed that of the pharisees? I mean if this is true, (we could do it) why did Jesus come to die?
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How could we do it??
My righteousness must exceed theirs!
I break Gods law to not murder when I have anger in my heart at you!
I tell you I can NOT do it.
I could judge outwardly and pridefully claim I have always kept that law, but who wants to live a farce?
If it is to happen, He must do it. It would be ridiculous for me to claim I can do it.
But He can. He can give me purity of heart. I see His work in me all the time. I didn't used to, when I tried hard to do it myself.

Now will we go into our old dance of you asking me if I never sin and me having to relate to you all of my many sins? ;)
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#56,602
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#56,602
Stunnedbygrace said:
How could we do it??
My righteousness must exceed theirs!
I break Gods law to not murder when I have anger in my heart at you!
I tell you I can NOT do it.
I could judge outwardly and pridefully claim I have always kept that law, but who wants to live a farce?
If it is to happen, He must do it. It would be ridiculous for me to claim I can do it.
But He can. He can give me purity of heart. I see His work in me all the time. I didn't used to, when I tried hard to do it myself.

Now will we go into our old dance of you asking me if I never sin and me having to relate to you all of my many sins? ;)
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The imputed righteousness of our Lord and Saviour will always be greater than mans upright walk.

I think what you are saying stunned, is that this goodness of the Lord works within your heart to be pleasing to Him as you live.

Right? Or did I miss it?
 
L

LightLoveHope

Banned
#56,603
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
#56,603
Stunnedbygrace said:
If it was as simple as just deciding to never have anger in my heart (murder), and so never having it, if that was just a choice, Jesus would not have shed His blood. He would have just said, make the choice to never have anger in your heart.
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Greeting Stunnedbygrace,

Anger is an emotion, which is triggered by events. The true revelation of our problem is
why Jesus needed to come, and die and forgive us and show us love in such a way it would
heal us make us whole.

So things are simple when you know the answer. It is complex and undefeatable when we
do not either understand it and secondly do not know how to be different.

So your proposal does not work in my thinking or experience.
But Jesus came so that we can be changed. And He showed us the way, the process
by which we are transformed. Now how this works and why, is His revelation, but He
says this is the way. Those who avoid the way for whatever reason will not be changed
and will in the end get burnt up.
 
L

LightLoveHope

Banned
#56,604
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
#56,604
Funny you guys making fun of stories or parables.
You would also make fun of Jesus, but then nothing new in that also.

We are called to walk like Jesus, and His parables teach a lot about the spiritual
realities of the Kingdom of heaven, which descriptive words lose.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#56,605
Jul 3, 2015
59,935
29,304
113
#56,605
LightLoveHope said:
Greeting Stunnedbygrace,

Anger is an emotion, which is triggered by events. The true revelation of our problem is
why Jesus needed to come, and die and forgive us and show us love in such a way it would
heal us make us whole.

So things are simple when you know the answer. It is complex and undefeatable when we
do not either understand it and secondly do not know how to be different.

So your proposal does not work in my thinking or experience.
But Jesus came so that we can be changed. And He showed us the way, the process
by which we are transformed. Now how this works and why, is His revelation, but He
says this is the way. Those who avoid the way for whatever reason will not be changed
and will in the end get burnt up.
Click to expand...
Your thinking does not work for many people here, either. Events do not trigger anger. What you believe about the meaning of the event is the trigger. Attitude is ninety percent, and circumstance only ten percent. Also, people too often talk about anger as if it were a sin, when it is not a sin at all if the things that anger you also anger God.

Just don't allow your anger to cause you to sin <<<~ now there's the tricky part.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#56,606
#56,606
LightLoveHope said:
Funny you guys making fun of stories or parables.
You would also make fun of Jesus, but then nothing new in that also.

We are called to walk like Jesus, and His parables teach a lot about the spiritual
realities of the Kingdom of heaven, which descriptive words lose.
Click to expand...
Some pathetic insults,you're doctrine is crumbling,clearly.
 
L

LightLoveHope

Banned
#56,607
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
#56,607
Magenta said:
In your previous post (#56582), you called this a self defeating scenario :eek:
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Do not like to point this out, but we do the dwelling in Gods word and obeying His Spirit,
so are participants in the process of transformation which is my point.

One either accepts God works alone to make us glorified people, which means there is
no restriction other than Gods will who walks in the Kingdom, or we are participants, which
also means we can fail and not achieve what is hoped for.

But this is like building a house, you do not say it is not worth building because it takes
effort and you might not manage to finish the job, you get on with the building.
God is the provider of bricks, cement, tools, design, guidance, but we have to do the work.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#56,608
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#56,608
LightLoveHope said:
Greeting Stunnedbygrace,

Anger is an emotion, which is triggered by events. The true revelation of our problem is
why Jesus needed to come, and die and forgive us and show us love in such a way it would
heal us make us whole.

So things are simple when you know the answer. It is complex and undefeatable when we
do not either understand it and secondly do not know how to be different.

So your proposal does not work in my thinking or experience.
But Jesus came so that we can be changed. And He showed us the way, the process
by which we are transformed. Now how this works and why, is His revelation, but He
says this is the way. Those who avoid the way for whatever reason will not be changed
and will in the end get burnt up.
Click to expand...
Anger is an emotion yes. It is a motion of the heart. It is murder by our Saviors words. By His words, it is a motion of the heart that is murder.

You remind me of peterjens. He used to come in here. Don't know when he stopped posting...anyway, you remind me of him. :)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#56,611
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#56,611
stonesoffire said:
The imputed righteousness of our Lord and Saviour will always be greater than mans upright walk.

I think what you are saying stunned, is that this goodness of the Lord works within your heart to be pleasing to Him as you live.

Right? Or did I miss it?
Click to expand...
Yes, I guess it could be phrased this way...I would say it more like...He renews my mind and I see things more clearly. I would never preach or recommend to men an outward keeping of the law when their problem is inside and proceeds from their inside. It would be harming rather than helping them.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#56,612
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#56,612
or we are participants, which also means we can fail and not achieve what is hoped for.
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What, exactly, are you hoping to "achieve"?
 
B

benhur

Senior Member
#56,613
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
#56,613
dcontroversal said:
Amongst other fallacies pushed by 7th Day workers for . ..
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It is not a fallacy to worship on Saturday if that is what you believe. The key is that you come together and worship on a day that you think is the right day to worship.

Some Christians think the right day is Saturday. Some Christians think the right day is Sunday. The NT does not difinitively help us to know what the absolute right day is, so either day has to be OK.

What is not right is the Christians that believe Saturday is the right day, continually harrass other Christians that worshipping on Sunday is against God and you will find yourself in hell. And it is not right that Christians who believe Sunday is the right day to worship coninually harrass other Christians that worshipping on Saturday is against God and you will find yourself in hell.

So can we all just get along. Thank you.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#56,614
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#56,614
benhur said:
It is not a fallacy to worship on Saturday if that is what you believe. The key is that you come together and worship on a day that you think is the right day to worship.

Some Christians think the right day is Saturday. Some Christians think the right day is Sunday. The NT does not difinitively help us to know what the absolute right day is, so either day has to be OK.

What is not right is the Christians that believe Saturday is the right day, continually harrass other Christians that worshipping on Sunday is against God and you will find yourself in hell. And it is not right that Christians who believe Sunday is the right day to worship coninually harrass other Christians that worshipping on Saturday is against God and you will find yourself in hell.

So can we all just get along. Thank you.
Click to expand...
From where did all this wisdom come...?:)
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#56,615
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#56,615
benhur said:
It is not a fallacy to worship on Saturday if that is what you believe. The key is that you come together and worship on a day that you think is the right day to worship.

Some Christians think the right day is Saturday. Some Christians think the right day is Sunday. The NT does not difinitively help us to know what the absolute right day is, so either day has to be OK.

What is not right is the Christians that believe Saturday is the right day, continually harrass other Christians that worshipping on Sunday is against God and you will find yourself in hell. And it is not right that Christians who believe Sunday is the right day to worship coninually harrass other Christians that worshipping on Saturday is against God and you will find yourself in hell.

So can we all just get along. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Well, Colossians 2:16 is clear we are not to judge by, among other things, a sabbath day.

What truly matters is if one believes that Jesus died on the cross and rose again the third day as full payment for their sins. (Acts 16:31
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#56,616
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#56,616
Stunnedbygrace said:
Yes, I guess it could be phrased this way...I would say it more like...He renews my mind and I see things more clearly. I would never preach or recommend to men an outward keeping of the law when their problem is inside and proceeds from their inside. It would be harming rather than helping them.
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It would be putting a bandaid on a mortal and blood spurting wound.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#56,617
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#56,617
Is our problem really inside?

You hit on the truth but then swerved aside.

The problems we have are from soul, (mind, will, emotions) which the Word of God will renew to proper thought.

I am crucified. I is ego. My ego has been crucified with Christ, my ego no longer lives yet we have life, and this life I live, I live by the faith of Jesus....there's a great truth here...who loved me (before the foundation of the world) and gave Himself for me.

Our flesh or our human nature, has been put to death for us by the Cross. Dead to sin, alive to God. Finished.

Do we know this?

We are an entirely new being. Do we believe this? Being formed into and by the Divine nature freely given.

So anger rises. Self control, a fruit of the Spirit, called upon in this situation, keeps one from raising the voice. Knowing or being aware of who you really are of, and what you have that is greater within keeps you able to deal with whatever problem you are having. Plus disassociating oneself from the person or persons causing the anger, is very helpful too. We are only responsible for our own temple.

We may fail for a time, but practice makes perfect.

We have all we need to have victory within our spirit man. Just need to learn to pull from there, rather than respond out of soul.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#56,620
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#56,620
stonesoffire said:
Is our problem really inside?

You hit on the truth but then swerved aside.

The problems we have are from soul, (mind, will, emotions) which the Word of God will renew to proper thought.

I am crucified. I is ego. My ego has been crucified with Christ, my ego no longer lives yet we have life, and this life I live, I live by the faith of Jesus....there's a great truth here...who loved me (before the foundation of the world) and gave Himself for me.

Our flesh or our human nature, has been put to death for us by the Cross. Dead to sin, alive to God. Finished.

Do we know this?

We are an entirely new being. Do we believe this? Being formed into and by the Divine nature freely given.

So anger rises. Self control, a fruit of the Spirit, called upon in this situation, keeps one from raising the voice. Knowing or being aware of who you really are of, and what you have that is greater within keeps you able to deal with whatever problem you are having. Plus disassociating oneself from the person or persons causing the anger, is very helpful too. We are only responsible for our own temple.

We may fail for a time, but practice makes perfect.

We have all we need to have victory within our spirit man. Just need to learn to pull from there, rather than respond out of soul.
Click to expand...

Yes, I can say with certainty that the problem is on our inside. It is what comes from inside a man that defiles a man.
Not sure where I swerved from the word of God there...
 
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