Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, I will add something that should be interesting.

Jesus in all his recorded sayings in the bible, stresses good works. For instance:

If you love me keep my commandments. BTW, keeping his commandments are part of the sermon on the mount. They are full of good works, such as
1) be a peacemaker
2) be meek
3) hunger and thirst after righteousness
4) be merciful
5) be pure in heart
6) be willing to be persecuted for righteousness sake, and be reviled and allow all manner of evil to be spoken of you for my sake. Be exceeding glad for your willingness to endure for His sake, for your reward is in heaven.
7) ye are the salt of the earth. Salt refers to doing good works, or be cast out and trodden under foot.
8) ye are the light of the world, do not hide your light under a bushel but giveth light to the whole house. Let your light shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
9) who ever teaches men to keep the commandments will be great in the KOH.
10) except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the KOH.
11) who so is angry with their brother is in danger of the judgement. Whoever calls someone a fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
12) be reconciled to men before you offer gifts to God.
13) do not look upon a woman with lust, for thou hast committed adultery with her in your heart.
14) If your right eye offend thee, pluck out. Better tho lose one eye than your whole body perish in hell.
15) If you right hand offend thee, cut it off that the whole body not be cast into hell.
16) do not put away your wife by divorcement, except for fornication.
17) whoever smite the on thy right cheek, turn to him your left cheek also.
18) whoever take away your coat by law, give him your cloak also.
19) whoever compel thee to go a mile with him, go with him for 2 miles.
20) give to him who asketh, and lend to him that needeth.
21) Love thy neighbor and love thy enemy, do good to hate you, that ye may be the children of your Father in heaven.
22) Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father which is in heaven perfect.
23) Do your alms in secret owtherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
24) Pray to your Father without fanfare as the hypocrites do. For your Father knows what you need before you ask.
25) forgive men who tresspass against thee, and your heavenly Father will forgive you. If you do not fogive men, your heavenly Father will not forgive you.
26) fast not as the hypocrite fasts, but fast in secret and be cheerful and your Father shall reward thee openly.
27) where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Lay up treasures in heaven. (Treasures in heaven are good works)
28) No man can serve 2 masters, so serve (do good works) your Father which is in heaven
29) Have great faith that the Father will take care of your needs if you seek ye first the KOG and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you. (IOW do good works and be righteous and all will be OK.)
29) Judge righteously, so you will be judged righteously. Cast out the beam in your eye before you try to cast out the beam in your brothers eye.
30) give not your pearls to the swine or that which is holy to the dogs, lest they trample these underfoot.
31) give (a good work) to all that ask, for who's son would ask for bread and you would give him a stone, or ask for a fish and you give him a serpent? Give good gifts (do good works)to your children and the Father will give tood things to them who ask Him.
32) Enter in at the straight gate and the narrow way, which leads unto eternal life, and few find it.
33) be aware of false prophets, ye shall know them by their fruits. A good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
34) Not everyone that does wonderful works will enter into the KOH. Some, I will say, I never knew thee.

Jesus concludes by saying that those who heareth these sayings and doeth them (do good works), I will liken them unto a wise man.

Remember James said something about hearers of the word only, compared to doers of the word. Remember doers (those who do good works) are blessed, hearers only are cursed.

So there you have it. Jesus is a big fan of good works. He is not a big fan of those that hear the word and believe and figure they are saved and don't have to lift a finger to help build the KOG. Jesus will not have you in his KOH. Your choice.

Oh, and this is just a few pages of the sermon on the mount. Jesus says a lot more about good works that you should hear and do.

He stressed them to his kids, Because they are kids, And Amen, People who are Saved by God, Love God, and are more than happy to try to be like God. If they are not. I would question if they are even Gods children.

He did nto stress them to people. to say do this and you will get to heaven, don;t do it, and you will go to hell.

 

[benhur]

Hi Ben...No one is disputing your above post , we all know that good works will follow , of course they will , because God wills us to do whatever according to His plan...But the OP is about being saved by grace , and not by works...xox...

Sorry, when the OP says, "not by works", I thought it was challenging the idea that works are not necessary to get into the KOG. I apologize if I got that wrong.

 

[dcontroversal]

OK, I will add something that should be interesting.

Jesus in all his recorded sayings in the bible, stresses good works. For instance:

If you love me keep my commandments. BTW, keeping his commandments are part of the sermon on the mount. They are full of good works, such as
1) be a peacemaker
2) be meek
3) hunger and thirst after righteousness
4) be merciful
5) be pure in heart
6) be willing to be persecuted for righteousness sake, and be reviled and allow all manner of evil to be spoken of you for my sake. Be exceeding glad for your willingness to endure for His sake, for your reward is in heaven.
7) ye are the salt of the earth. Salt refers to doing good works, or be cast out and trodden under foot.
8) ye are the light of the world, do not hide your light under a bushel but giveth light to the whole house. Let your light shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
9) who ever teaches men to keep the commandments will be great in the KOH.
10) except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the KOH.
11) who so is angry with their brother is in danger of the judgement. Whoever calls someone a fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
12) be reconciled to men before you offer gifts to God.
13) do not look upon a woman with lust, for thou hast committed adultery with her in your heart.
14) If your right eye offend thee, pluck out. Better tho lose one eye than your whole body perish in hell.
15) If you right hand offend thee, cut it off that the whole body not be cast into hell.
16) do not put away your wife by divorcement, except for fornication.
17) whoever smite the on thy right cheek, turn to him your left cheek also.
18) whoever take away your coat by law, give him your cloak also.
19) whoever compel thee to go a mile with him, go with him for 2 miles.
20) give to him who asketh, and lend to him that needeth.
21) Love thy neighbor and love thy enemy, do good to hate you, that ye may be the children of your Father in heaven.
22) Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father which is in heaven perfect.
23) Do your alms in secret owtherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
24) Pray to your Father without fanfare as the hypocrites do. For your Father knows what you need before you ask.
25) forgive men who tresspass against thee, and your heavenly Father will forgive you. If you do not fogive men, your heavenly Father will not forgive you.
26) fast not as the hypocrite fasts, but fast in secret and be cheerful and your Father shall reward thee openly.
27) where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Lay up treasures in heaven. (Treasures in heaven are good works)
28) No man can serve 2 masters, so serve (do good works) your Father which is in heaven
29) Have great faith that the Father will take care of your needs if you seek ye first the KOG and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you. (IOW do good works and be righteous and all will be OK.)
29) Judge righteously, so you will be judged righteously. Cast out the beam in your eye before you try to cast out the beam in your brothers eye.
30) give not your pearls to the swine or that which is holy to the dogs, lest they trample these underfoot.
31) give (a good work) to all that ask, for who's son would ask for bread and you would give him a stone, or ask for a fish and you give him a serpent? Give good gifts (do good works)to your children and the Father will give tood things to them who ask Him.
32) Enter in at the straight gate and the narrow way, which leads unto eternal life, and few find it.
33) be aware of false prophets, ye shall know them by their fruits. A good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
34) Not everyone that does wonderful works will enter into the KOH. Some, I will say, I never knew thee.

Jesus concludes by saying that those who heareth these sayings and doeth them (do good works), I will liken them unto a wise man.

Remember James said something about hearers of the word only, compared to doers of the word. Remember doers (those who do good works) are blessed, hearers only are cursed.

So there you have it. Jesus is a big fan of good works. He is not a big fan of those that hear the word and believe and figure they are saved and don't have to lift a finger to help build the KOG. Jesus will not have you in his KOH. Your choice.

Oh, and this is just a few pages of the sermon on the mount. Jesus says a lot more about good works that you should hear and do.

And BTW, Jesus never used the word grace, once in his sayings. Now don't get me wrong. I believe that by the grace of God we are saved, but I also believe good works is a large step forward to receiving that grace.

So what......

a. This thread is about how one is saved not works or what one does after they are saved
b. Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW Covenant
c. No one has denied that a believer will bear fruit

NEXT.........

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi Ben...No one is disputing your above post , we all know that good works will follow , of course they will , because God wills us to do whatever according to His plan...But the OP is about being saved by grace , and not by works...xox...

Amen...ROSE gets it............of course she is open to the truth of the bible.....

 

[Rosemaryx]

Amen...ROSE gets it............of course she is open to the truth of the bible.....

Hi Dcon...Ben has stated that he sees that now...All is good , he sees we are saved by grace ...xox...

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Sorry, when the OP says, "not by works", I thought it was challenging the idea that works are not necessary to get into the KOG. I apologize if I got that wrong.

nope

its the opposite


the OP would not challenge that works are not necessary


it is the imputed righteousness of Jesus which grants His sheep access into His kingdom

not works

but we ought to build eachother up unto every good work as His children who are saved already by grace through faith

 

[dcontroversal]

Sorry, when the OP says, "not by works", I thought it was challenging the idea that works are not necessary to get into the KOG. I apologize if I got that wrong.

You did get it wrong....it is saving faith, being born from above as in saved that places one in the Kingdom of God....wake up...we are paid wages (misthos<-reward) for services rendered....the services rendered do not earn a place in the kingdom....MANY think this and will attempt this path ONLY TO BE CAST from his presence......

it pleased god by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE <-NO WORKS TO BE SAVED-->SAVED UNTO not BY!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi Dcon...Ben has stated that he sees that now...All is good , he sees we are saved by grace ...xox...

Thanks Rose....look again at what he said.....

Sorry, when the OP says, "not by works", I thought it was challenging the idea that works are not necessary to get into the KOG. I apologize if I got that wrong.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I get the feeling some important points have been conceded.

1. Works or fruit will flow from a believer, or else they do not know the Lord
2. Obedience to love and righteousness will be demonstrable.
3. All Jesus's words are applicable to all those who have faith.

Now though some want to create a big issue for weak believers or those who
come to faith but soon fall away, it appears most actually accept the basics.

I do wonder how many are true "Free Grace" believers there are here.
Certainly the doctrine obeying God is just believing in Jesus which implies obedience
is not necessary, while others appear to agree this is part of a true heart transformation.

Grace and peace to you

 

[benhur]

He stressed them to his kids, Because they are kids, And Amen, People who are Saved by God, Love God, and are more than happy to try to be like God. If they are not. I would question if they are even Gods children.
He did not stress them to people. to say do this and you will get to heaven, don;t do it, and you will go to hell.

Lets see if I can understand what you just posted?

He (Jesus) stressed them (the items in the sermon on the mount) to his (Jesus's) kids?

I question if they are God's children too?

He (Jesus) did not stress them (the items in the sermon on the mount) to people. to say do this and you will get to heaven, don;t do it, and you will go to hell.

Are you saying that Jesus was talking to kids and not grown people when he gave the sermon on the mount?

Now Jesus did say in Matthew 5:20 that if your righteousness did not exceed the righteousness of the pharisees, you would not enter into the KOH.

Jesus says in Matthew 5:48 for us to be as perfect, even as his Father is perfect. (do you think a person can be perfect? Apparentyly Jesus and his Father do).

Jesus says in Matthew 6:14 that if you forgive men, then the Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive men, then he will not forgive you. So how does this line up against Jesus saved me, and will forgive me of my sins. Don't you have to say, Jesus has saved me and will forgive me of my sins, as long as I do a good work and forgive other men who have trespassed against me?

Jesus says in Matthew 7:14 that the gate is strait, and the path is narrow which leadeth to eternal life, and few there be that find it. That Jesus's sacrifice covers the whole world seems like a lot of people, not just a few.

Jesus does say in Mattew 7:24 that doers (those that do good works) are wise and will withstand the floods and make it into the KOG. Those that are hearers only of the word (not doers of good works) are not wise and will not make it into the KOG.

Matthew 7:28 And when Jesus had ended these saying, the PEOPLE were astonished at his doctrine.

Pretty clear to me that you better be in the church as a doer, and not a hearer only. Be wise.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

im working on a project....
im going to do a breakdown of John
i just found out how much time its gonna take

i got over zealous

but
heres a sample verse
without my added words for context to aid sapplings
john 6


26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I suspect there is a problem with definitions.

Everyone of a protestant view holds we are saved by faith alone, not something we earn.
Alongside this is the true fruit or reality of this change, a changed heart and life in
conformity with Jesus and His ways.

It is this conformity that is being challenged, and the accusation to not be conformed is
acceptable. This appears to be Free Grace theology, though some think they are arguing
for salvation by faith alone, which is confusing the ideas. Others get dragged into the OSAS
discussion, which obscures who is saying what.

One simpler way of differentiating people is those who reject Jesus's commands as only
for the Jews, which many do hold to. For me there is the deeper question, if you know
Jesus to upset Him grieves ones heart. It is this sorrow that shows were we are and how
we are growing in grace and love, and I hear many sharing similar things though they hold
different views on doctrinal points. Grasping this reality for me speaks more of the kingdom
than the favorite verses or points being made.

Knowing ones heart, and knowing how love through Jesus and His revelation sets us free.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lets see if I can understand what you just posted?

He (Jesus) stressed them (the items in the sermon on the mount) to his (Jesus's) kids?

I question if they are God's children too?

He (Jesus) did not stress them (the items in the sermon on the mount) to people. to say do this and you will get to heaven, don;t do it, and you will go to hell.

Are you saying that Jesus was talking to kids and not grown people when he gave the sermon on the mount?

Now Jesus did say in Matthew 5:20 that if your righteousness did not exceed the righteousness of the pharisees, you would not enter into the KOH.

Jesus says in Matthew 5:48 for us to be as perfect, even as his Father is perfect. (do you think a person can be perfect? Apparentyly Jesus and his Father do).

Jesus says in Matthew 6:14 that if you forgive men, then the Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive men, then he will not forgive you. So how does this line up against Jesus saved me, and will forgive me of my sins. Don't you have to say, Jesus has saved me and will forgive me of my sins, as long as I do a good work and forgive other men who have trespassed against me?

Jesus says in Matthew 7:14 that the gate is strait, and the path is narrow which leadeth to eternal life, and few there be that find it. That Jesus's sacrifice covers the whole world seems like a lot of people, not just a few.

Jesus does say in Mattew 7:24 that doers (those that do good works) are wise and will withstand the floods and make it into the KOG. Those that are hearers only of the word (not doers of good works) are not wise and will not make it into the KOG.

Matthew 7:28 And when Jesus had ended these saying, the PEOPLE were astonished at his doctrine.

Pretty clear to me that you better be in the church as a doer, and not a hearer only. Be wise.

before we go any further

Do you understand what the term children of God means, Do you also understand it does not matter what age you are in human terms, you are still calld a child (kid) of God.

My daughter is 32, my other one will turn 30 years this year, I still call them my kids.

If you now understand this, Can you go back, reread what I posted. and try to make a response which is not derogatory? or is this above your ability?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Dcon...Ben has stated that he sees that now...All is good , he sees we are saved by grace ...xox...

I would wait before i make this conclusion sis, I have seen nothing which would show me ben has the same view of grace as we do.

 

[benhur]

You did get it wrong....it is saving faith, being born from above as in saved that places one in the Kingdom of God....wake up...we are paid wages (misthos<-reward) for services rendered....the services rendered do not earn a place in the kingdom....MANY think this and will attempt this path ONLY TO BE CAST from his presence......

it pleased god by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE <-NO WORKS TO BE SAVED-->SAVED UNTO not BY!

OK can I say this, we are saved unto good works, which would in a sense be a sign that we have been saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK can I say this, we are saved unto good works, which would in a sense be a sign that we have been saved.

yes, But we are still saved by grace apart from works, this salvation being unto works which we were created to do (eph 2)

 

[LoveGodForever]

CHILDREN OF GOD AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL WHO ARE THEY?

1 JOHN 3
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: whoever SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNOWS HIM.
7, Little children, LET KNOW ONE DECEIVE YOU: he that DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, even as he is righteous.
8, HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
11, For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12, Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And why slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13, Marvel not, my brothers, if the world hate you.
14, We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brothers. He that loves not his brother stays in death.
15, Whoever hates his brother is a MURDERER: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

No need to be in confusion here. God's Word makes it very clear who God's saints are.

Revelation 12: [17], And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: [12] HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus. Yep if you are still in your SINS you are not on God's side or do you know him.
...............

Just like any of the other 10 Commandments, God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. He who God sends speaks with words of God (John 3:34)

 

[joefizz]

Sorry, when the OP says, "not by works", I thought it was challenging the idea that works are not necessary to get into the KOG. I apologize if I got that wrong.

Well the bible as well as people can be "confusing" and it's good to realize if you have "misunderstood something" I cannot tell you how many times I have put my foot in mouth so to speak because of a misunderstanding or likewise other people who have misunderstood things I say or post,I've found it's good to ask for "clarification" even if you might know just what someone is saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well the bible as well as people can be "confusing" and it's good to realize if you have "misunderstood something" I cannot tell you how many times I have put my foot in mouth so to speak because of a misunderstanding or likewise other people who have misunderstood things I say or post,I've found it's good to ask for "clarification" even if you might know just what someone is saying.

You know it is bad when you can not even touch your toes, but you can stick your foot in your mouth, it takes alot of power and energy..lol yet we (Yes, I include myself) do it all the time..

 

[BillG]

OK can I say this, we are saved unto good works, which would in a sense be a sign that we have been saved.

Yes you can say this, because that's the truth.
Jesus says to Peter.

"Come follow me"

Peter followed. Faith

Then Peter did the works he was called to do.

Simples really