GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

LoveGodForever · Feb 14, 2018

Amazing. How has the issue been settled when someone only states a scripture an OP is about without addressing the OP and the scriptures in it that disagree with your interpretation of the scripture the OP discusses?

Should you not address the scriptures in the OP that disagree with your interpretation of the scripture the OP is about?

Simply restating the scripture the OP is discussing only shows you do not know the Word of God or chosen to reject it.

Would you lilke to address the OP that disagrees with your interpretation of Col 2?

.....................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

Endoscopy · Feb 14, 2018

PS said:

What are the commandments of Jesus? The 613 rules set out as the law in the Torah. What did Jesus say about the law?

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

LibrarianLeo · Feb 14, 2018

rstrats said:

"5 One man regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike.
Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

That God understands where each one of us is comming from and is aware of every word we have heard and read and takes all that into consideration for believers. We need not worry about causing others to sin. If that were a concern, we should gouge out our eyes and cut off our limbs.

29 If your right eye causes you to sin,
gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you
to lose one part of your body than for your whole
body to be thrown into hell.

For example, suppose you are in a crowd and your hand touches a married woman's rear end. When you get home, cut that arm off.

LoveGodForever · Feb 14, 2018

Hi Leo,

Big welcome here and welcome to the thread here. Some comments for you below.

LibrarianLeo said:

You quote Romand 14:5 above. What makes you think this chapter is talking about God's 4th Commandment or Sunday worship when it was never an issue at that time period?

Where is God's 4th Commandment even mentioned in the entire Chapter of Romans?

Romans 14 is talking about food connected to days and fasting dedicated to God NOT God's 4th Commandment.

LibrarianLeo said:

Yes this is what the OP is about did you have anything to share in regards to the OP? Simply stating the topic of the OP does not address the OP the topic is about.

......................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

Endoscopy · Feb 14, 2018

Round and round the argument goes. Where it stops nobody knows. Just like a carneval wheel.

Dan_473 · Feb 14, 2018

Endoscopy said:

from what I've seen, where someone lands depends on their psychology and how they view the spirit working in their lives.

for example, is the book of Colossians complete in itself?
or is it like hearing just one part of a telephone call?

Roadkill · Feb 14, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

You need to time travel back to before Jesus Resurrected from Death in order to be correct. You are stuck in a Loop and I will no longer argue with you.

Hope you do some serious research into the Gospel because teaching things contrary to the latest version of God's word will Land you into trouble with him. The New Testament is Final, it is the last word.
Now I don't know if you are a Messianic Jew or a 7 Day Adventist but you are trying to put Grace under Law and Grace is superior to the Law.
I'm Done with this Thread.

May God's Mercy and Grace shine upon you all!

MHz · Feb 14, 2018

The vision in Acts:10 made all Gentile food clean and since it was part of a group of laws all of them were retired at that time. It was to make the upcoming scattering less of a burden on the 12 Tribes. The 10 Commandment remain intact and the only change was thinking about breaking one was the same as if you actually did it. No Christian repents any of those sins. Most are unaware that change even took place.

M't:5:27:
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time,
Thou shalt not commit adultery:
M't:5:28:
But I say unto you,
That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jas:2:8-11:
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,
ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.
For he that said,
Do not commit adultery,
said also,
do not kill.
Now if thou commit no adultery,
yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.

laymen · Feb 14, 2018

LibrarianLeo said:

Its funny people try try and use this verse to exclude the Sabbath day.But if u notice everyone from the OT to the NT keep the Sabbath day from Gen- Rev. So the only Sabbath this could be talking about is sacrificial sabbath days made by Moses witch were separate From the Sabbath day it’s self or addition to. Amplified bible Lev23:38 This is in addition to the Sabbaths of the Lord and besides your gifts and all your vowed offerings and all your freewill offerings which you give to the Lord.

LoveGodForever · Feb 14, 2018

Roadkill said:

How can you argue with someone when you have made no argument? You have not presented scripture or have you addressed the OP or the scriptures here that disagree with your interpretation of God's Word.

Roadkill said:

I see, so in your view what will get us in trouble with God?

Roadkill said:

So in your view God is lying when he says...

2 Timothy 3
16, ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

and

Matthew 4
4, But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEED OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD. ???

Roadkill said:

Well that is not true whatsoever.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "UNDER THE LAW" ?

Romans 3
19, Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

To be "UNDER THE LAW" means to be guilty of breaking it.

How is anyone trying to get you to break God's LAW?

God's Word teaches us that it is by FAITH we ESTABLISH the LAW through LOVE written on the heart...

Romans 3
31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Romans 1
5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name

GRACE AND FAITH are for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH not a liscence to SIN (Break Gods LAW)

....................

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW)(Acts 17:30-31).There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten(Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

laymen · Feb 14, 2018

MHz said:

Let’s start by looking at the first thing you said. Act 10:17 [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
[/FONT]
seems to me that Peter does not understand what was being shown to him because he had never eatten unclean foods infact if you can show where he has ever eaten unclean food before or after I would be surprised. That said we need to let the Bible interpretation it’s self.
Act 10:19 [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
[/FONT]
“No man is common or unclean”.... so not talking about Food.

prove-all · Feb 14, 2018

gb9 said:

Then Peter said to them, “[Repent], and let every one of you
[be baptized] in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
and you shall receive [the gift] of the Holy Spirit.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding
have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.

-
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom
of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by
the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you,
will seek to enter and will not be able.

-
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you
beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice
such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of
the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that
‘Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.’

MHz · Feb 14, 2018

There are two different passages in that chapter, the first one is specifically for members of the 12 Tribes and the 2nd one is meant for Gentiles who will become know as 'the Church'. It can also be promoted that is was the last day of the 70 week when this happened as that week did not end until 3 1/2 years after the cross. The verse below are the important part to the vision part of that chapter.

Ac:10:14:
But Peter said,
Not so,
Lord; f
or I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Ac:10:15:
And the voice spake unto him again the second time,
What God hath cleansed,
that call not thou common.

This is what is said about the 3 men, important to the story, yes or no?

Ac:10:20:
Arise therefore,
and get thee down,
and go with them,
doubting nothing:
for I have sent them.

Peter and the other Apostles stayed in Jerusalem until 70AD teaching the 12 Tribes the very same message Paul was teaching to everybody who would listen once he entered the nations. Being sent in either direction n is what mage Gentiles clean. The food thing was to make the scattering less of a hardship. That it voided 613 laws is the part that is hard to accept. We still have the 10 Commandments to guide us until the return.

prove-all · Feb 14, 2018

Roadkill said:

There is no mention of the abolition of God’s law or His holy days.
Nothing is done away in these verses. In fact, it is just the opposite.

The very criticism the Colossians were receiving about their observance
of these days proves they were keeping them.

How could they be criticized “with regard to” days they were not keeping?

prove-all · Feb 14, 2018

Roadkill said:

Since the Catholic Church instituted the change, and call everyone else heretics.

The Catholic Doctrinal Catechism states this directly: “Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept? Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her, she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no scriptural authority.” Catholics identify the changing of the day of worship as a sign of Catholic authority!

Catholics, in fact, feel the Protestants should keep the Sabbath as long as they reject the authority of Rome. The Catholic Doctrinal Catechism further states: “Question: When Protestants do profane work upon Saturday, or the seventh day of the week, do they follow the Scripture as their only rule of faith? Do they find this permission clearly laid down in the Sacred Volume? Answer: On the contrary, they have only the authority of tradition for this practice. In profaning Saturday, they violate one of God’s commandments, which He has never abrogated—‘Remember thou keep holy the Sabbath day.’”

Some Protestants admit this. Martin Luther himself wrote in Against the Celestial Prophets: “Indeed, if [sabbatarian Andreas] Carlstadt were to write further about the Sabbath, Sunday would have to give way, and the Sabbath—that is to say, Saturday—must be kept holy.” In his Larger Catchism, Luther wrote that “to avoid the unnecessary disturbance which an innovation would occasion, it [the day of worship] should continue to be Sunday.” He simply accepted Catholic doctrine, which he knew had no scriptural authority.

Methodists, the Church of England, and Presbyterians also have documents
acknowledging that there is no scriptural authority for Sunday worship.

If you read the New Testament from Matthew to Revelation, you’ll read the phrase
“first day of the week” eight times (and the word “Sunday” zero times), and none of
these passages speak of Sunday worship.

The Bible clearly shows us which day the early Christians kept. Jesus Christ kept the
Sabbath (Luke 4:16). The Apostle Paul both kept the Sabbath and preached it to Gentiles
on the Sabbath for 1½ years (Acts 18:4, 6-11).

Many point to an Easter sunrise as authority for Sunday worship.
Like Sunday observance, the sunrise Easter service has pagan origins.
God commands us to observe Christ’s death, not His birth

The Almighty God gave this command: “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy”

The patriarchs, ancient Israel, Jesus Christ, the disciples, the Apostle Paul, and God’s
true Church all kept it as He commanded. All worshipped the Creator of the universe
instead of the work of His fingers. What will you do?

prove-all · Feb 14, 2018

The Bible itself offers no sanction for Sunday worship.
The historical record, which clearly shows when the day of observance
was changed, exactly who changed it, and how it was enforced.

Sunday Enforced

At the time of Christ, only pagans—specifically, the Roman Empire—worshipped on Sunday. By a.d. 230, however, Catholics were divided on which day they should observe. One early Catholic, Origen, wrote: “But what is the feast of the Sabbath except that of which the apostle speaks, ‘There remaineth, therefore, a Sabbatism,’ that is, the observance of the Sabbath by the people of God? Leaving the Jewish observances of the Sabbath, let us see how the Sabbath ought to be observed by a Christian.

On the Sabbath day all worldly labors ought to be abstained from. If, therefore, you cease from all secular works, and execute nothing worldly, but give yourselves up to spiritual exercises, repairing to church, attending to sacred reading and instruction … this is the observance of the Christian Sabbath.” At that time, this Catholic leader was referring to the seventh day of the week.

Enforced Sunday worship began with the Roman Empire, specifically Constantine. In a.d. 321, Constantine issued an edict forbidding work on “the venerable day of the sun”—Sunday. In a letter following the Nicene Council of a.d. 325, Constantine spoke of the enforcement of Sunday worship for Easter services: “At this meeting the question concerning the most holy day of Easter was discussed, and it was resolved by the united judgment of all present that this feast ought to be kept by all and in every place on one and the same day.” In other words, Easter was to be kept on Sunday, and the Jewish observance of Passover was expressly forbidden.

To those who ignored the decrees of the Nicene Council, Constantine wrote, in another letter regarding Sabbath worship, “Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies: and our care in this respect extends so far as to forbid the holding of your superstitious and senseless meetings, not in public merely, but in any private house or place whatsoever. Let those of you, therefore, who are desirous of embracing the true and pure religion take the far better course of entering the Catholic Church .… [F]rom this day forward none of your unlawful assemblies may presume to appear in any public or private place. Let this edict be made public.”

After Constantine gave his edict, worship on any day except Sunday became illegal. Almost 40 years later, in a.d. 363, the Council of Laodicea determined, “Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath [that is, Saturday], but must work on that day, rather honoring the Lord’s day .… But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema [cursed and excommunicated] from Christ.”

At the Council of Tours in a.d. 1163, Pope Alexander III made this decree: “Whereas a damnable heresy has for some time lifted its head in the parts about Toulouse, and already spread infection through Gascony and other provinces, concealing itself like a serpent in its folds; as soon as its followers shall have been discovered, let no man afford them refuge on his estates; neither let there be any communication with them in buying and selling: so that, being deprived of the solace of human conversation, they may be compelled to return from error to wisdom.”

Historically speaking, there is no question as to who changed the day of worship.

LibrarianLeo · Feb 14, 2018

prove-all said:

Just so you know, there is no need to keep special days. The Law has been fulfilled.
[h=3]Matthew 5:17[/h]“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

but to fulfill them.

from plérés
Definition
to make full, to complete
NASB Translation
accomplish (1), accomplished (1), amply supplied (1), approaching (1), complete (1), completed (3), completing (1), elapsed (1), fill (3), filled (16), fills (1), finished (1), fulfill (20), fulfilled (20), fully carry (1), fully come (1), fully preached (1), increasing (1), made complete (2), made full (5), make...full (1), make...complete (1), passed (2), supply (1).

prove-all · Feb 14, 2018

LibrarianLeo said:

Sorry to hear you do not keep [The Lords Passover] to cover your sins.

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying,
“This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

MHz · Feb 14, 2018

If worshiping God on the wrong day is a sin then perhaps repenting it is all that has to be done to solve the problem. In reality grace covers many sins that do not violate the original 10 Commandments.

M't:12:31:
Wherefore I say unto you,
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
M't:12:32:
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man,
it shall be forgiven him:
but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost,
it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world,
neither in the world to come.

laymen · Feb 14, 2018

LibrarianLeo said:

Just so you know, there is no need to keep special days. The Law has been fulfilled.
Matthew 5:17

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

but to fulfill them.

from plérés
Definition
to make full, to complete
NASB Translation
accomplish (1), accomplished (1), amply supplied (1), approaching (1), complete (1), completed (3), completing (1), elapsed (1), fill (3), filled (16), fills (1), finished (1), fulfill (20), fulfilled (20), fully carry (1), fully come (1), fully preached (1), increasing (1), made complete (2), made full (5), make...full (1), make...complete (1), passed (2), supply (1).

Bless your heart. Fulfilling the law does not abolish it or make void. This strengthens the argument about the Sabbath if anything.

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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