Not By Works

mailmandan · Feb 13, 2018

I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on their works. They were self righteous. There are false prophets who prophecy in the name of Jesus and even make false prophecies. Also, Satan may grant the power to one of his agents to cast out demons from another of his agents in order to gain attention and loyalty from an audience for his own evil agenda.

In Matthew 10:1, we also see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

NoNameMcgee · Feb 13, 2018

geez these blind men who have no faith in what Jesus did on the cross ...

how can you not see whats right in front of you?

-salvation is from what Jesus did.. not what you do...
(not by works but by grace through faith)

-once you are born of God (born again) you are already saved... forever

the fruits of the spirit is another issue entirely

elamor
watch yourself

youre baiting and implying there are zombies here but you cant even rightly divide the scriptures

you dont even know what works God has used the real brothers and sisters here for....

absolutely ridiculous

it's crazy how often those pushing a false gospel just post the same few verses out of context that don't even address the issue at hand..

NoNameMcgee said:

imputed righteousness
Romans
Chapter 4

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

________

ephesians 2

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ

_______

Philippians 3

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

________

1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

_______

romans 3

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________

To all who believe.... Doesn't fade

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 John Chapter 5

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

dcontroversal · Feb 13, 2018

I see you totally avoided the question......here one more time and see if you can answer for all to see.....rather simple at the end of the end of the day....bolded below??

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

I said Catholic dogma<---a works based vanilla café blend gospel.....do you believe works are part of the equation for salvation...to gain or keep it?

ElAmor said:

Do you teach, promote, preach and practice obedience to God’s Word which includes His Laws, commandments, teachings and instructions?

If I do as Jesus did, do you call me a catholic or a works salvationist or a sinless perfectionist? I am proud to walk as Jesus did. If I only claim to have faith but don’t practice that faith, i’m a liar, a hypocrite and the truth is not in me.

1 John 1:6-7 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Matthew 23:2-3 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Do you practice what you preach and your faith?

James 2:22-24 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Many scriptures would prove that salvation is not by faith alone but as it is written;

Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Only dead faith cannot save but faith that works in Love is the kind of faith that by God's grace would save.

So let us teach OBEDIENCE as Jesus did and instructed us to do and be the true children of God who serves and obeys His commands through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hebrews 5:7-10 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

dcontroversal · Feb 13, 2018

Budman said:

You say we don't have two natures, Ralph.

Once again.....

"That makes no sense when John says those born again will not, nor can, sin.

And Paul goes into great depth about the two natures in Romans 7:

"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." (verses 15-20)"

I am not going to allow you to run away from this. I'm not going to let the thread progress until it's buried. I'm going to keep posting it until you answer it. If we don't have two natures, why does Paul keep talking about his sinful nature and the sin that is living IN him?

He cannot answer truthfully because it is one of many truths that destroys his dogma.....Peter's as well......actually ALL sinless perfectionists who push a self help guru working for dogma....

dcontroversal · Feb 13, 2018

ElAmor said:

HAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHA wow man.....can you read......what they lack is SAVING FAITH because they believe in a WORKS BASED salvation and a right o enter based upon their works....the above bolded is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they did and said...they BOASTED of WORKS and never said anything about FAITH and or the sacrifice/blood of CHRIST...

NO wonder you miss the mark on a regular basis......

NoNameMcgee · Feb 13, 2018

ElAmor said:

NoNameMcgee said:

geez you dont understand hebrews

because He was the final sacrifice

there remains no more sacrifice for sins as the hebrews did

Hebrews 10
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

the enemies that are His footstool

are the adversaries who are devoured

we are they who are sanctified by HIS offering

no more sacrifice remains for any sin

willing

or not

just one more proof of you misrepresenting scripture

dcontroversal · Feb 13, 2018

Lucy-Pevensie said:

Did you notice that he posted the exact opposite of what they had actually done..........their problem is that they had no saving faith.......notice the bolded error of his statement.....totally contrary to what actually happened.....the bolded below...they BOASTED of their works as the right and means of entry into the kingdom....they had NO SAVING FAITH and were never saved to begin with....

Originally Posted by ElAmor

This is for the ZOMBIESwho call him Lord but do not do what He says.(luke 6:46) They love to boast about their faith void of works but come judgment day they will say that they have works but unfortunately God cannot be mocked and they will be rejected.

NoNameMcgee · Feb 13, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Did you notice that he posted the exact opposite of what they had actually done..........their problem is that they had no saving faith.......notice the bolded error of his statement.....totally contrary to what actually happened.....the bolded below...they BOASTED of their works as the right and means of entry into the kingdom....they had NO SAVING FAITH and were never saved to begin with....

Originally Posted by ElAmor

This is for the ZOMBIESwho call him Lord but do not do what He says.(luke 6:46) They love to boast about their faith void of works but come judgment day they will say that they have works but unfortunately God cannot be mocked and they will be rejected.

hes consistently proving he does not understand the bible....

dcontroversal · Feb 13, 2018

mailmandan said:

I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on their works. They were self righteous. There are false prophets who prophecy in the name of Jesus and even make false prophecies. Also, Satan may grant the power to one of his agents to cast out demons from another of his agents in order to gain attention and loyalty from an audience for his own evil agenda.

In Matthew 10:1, we also see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

AMEN brother.....modern day Pharisees push the same self help guru save yourself by your works dogma while throwing Jesus under the bus.....it is ALL his work, faith, grace, mercy, blood, sacrifice, power, promises.....and it is genuine saving FAITH alone that saves a man and places him into the vine and into the kingdom having been born of incorruptible seed eternally by the word of GOD....we are KEPT by the power of GOD and the promises of JESUS stand sure.......

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

LightLoveHope · Feb 13, 2018

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you,
who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:1-5

We are sanctified for obedience to Christ.
We are kept by faith.

Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed.
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:13-16

We are called to be holy in all we do.

We are saved by faith to live Holy lives.

Now you need to remember this is not a super spiritual option, it is all our calling.
This is Peter writing after the cross to the people of God, us.

Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.
1 Peter 1:17

Some believe fear is evil. Yet Peter is calling us to know we should fear the Lord,
and know our dwelling is with Him and we are strangers on this earth.

Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1:22

We have purified ourselves by believing in the cross and Jesus and obeying its commands.
Many claim to be born again of an imperishable seed yet are not purified. Something has
gone wrong. Their hearts are still in the world and its longings and not embedded in Christ
and the Kingdom.

LightLoveHope · Feb 13, 2018

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,
now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:1-5

We are a holy priesthood.

Get rid of all malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, slander.

How is it sincere believers are accusing other believers who hold almost identical beliefs of
heinous sins? It is so odd that walking a righteous path causes such antagonism.

Now bear in mind, no one knows each other here, just the words typed.
So all you can judge another by is their opinions and expressions.

So when I talk of walking a righteous path, it is literally meaning obeying Jesus and His commands,
which defines His holy people and friends.

Now if you hold you can do evil, and still hold to be Holy, there is something wrong.
If you call sinful that which is not sinful, there is something wrong.
If you cannot believe Christ washes you clean through repentance, confession and faith,
something is wrong.

Now these 3 tests appear to be failed by many, so they have not grasped Jesus and the
apostles teaching. If being holy and pure does not burn in your soul, to be like Jesus your
one true goal, then why do you claim to follow Him at all.

I am not a monk, because that is about withdrawal from the world and I believe we are to
be lights, burning bright and overcoming in the world but not of it. It appears few have this
goal or mission in their hearts.

Foundations

To say people are trying to prove themselves before God by obedience, is a wrong idea.
But we obey because it is our heart to do that which is right. And because we know we
can love, we know we have met Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells within.

Ralph- · Feb 13, 2018

Budman said:

Okay, good. This was first on my list this morning. You saved me the trouble of finding it.

Romans 7 - Living in the flesh

Romans 8 - Living in the Spirit. The answer to living in the flesh.

The person who lives in the flesh (Romans 7) is not born again. Paul said so (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21). The person who lives in Romans 7 will not inherit the kingdom of God. Grace does not make it so you can be an adulterer, a fornicator, a homosexual, a thief, a bully, an envious person, a mean person, a pornographer, etc. and be saved at the same time. Anyone who lives in the flesh is not saved. Their life of living in the flesh makes that obvious.

19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."-Galatians 5:19-21

If you think grace makes it so you can "live like this" then you have made grace a license to sin showing yourself to not be saved. You will not go into the kingdom when Jesus comes back.

Any more questions?

LightLoveHope · Feb 13, 2018

Danger of aggressive criticism

I have seen young believers, who have one view or the other, spot an issue,
wade in and make their comment. Back comes the response, sometimes finding
a personality weakness, and down they drop.

So two imperfect vulnerable people end up really hurt, over an issue that could
be viewed probably both ways, so both were right, but need to grow a bit more
to see each others perspective. This is why Paul called people to avoid this
kind of disputing, because it discourages both, and hurts too many.

Knowing Christs love and grace, amen, His blessing and forgiveness, but also
understanding the power of love, its victory and what evil truly is and how
destructive it is. Both are needed.

I wonder, as people claim to be trapped in continuous sin daily, which sins they
are talking about? And why do they find it so hard to walk Jesus's way and simply
by an act of will through faith choose to love rather than sin?

Ralph- · Feb 13, 2018

Which do you 'live in', Budman, deek? The flesh or the Spirit?

Don't be afraid to say you live out the very doctrine you defend here. If you are indeed living in the flesh and think you are saved at the same time just say so.

So, are you living in adultery, fornication, pornography, thievery, lies, envy, rage, selfish ambition, etc.? You should not be afraid to admit it since you are so adamant about defending this as the regular way of life of the true believer. So, are you?

Cee · Feb 13, 2018

People need to be renewed in the spirit of their mind as well.

Paul tells believers they are "carnal-minded". This means fleshly-minded.

The "two-natures" that people sometimes experience is because of this.

James explains this when he teaches about being "double-minded".

He says some ask so they can spend it on their passions. This is fleshly.

Paul says some exalt being baptized by Paul and others Apollos, and corrects them saying, "Who is Paul, who is Apollos? Are you not still carnal minded?"

These are what we would call, "babes in Christ". They need to grow up. Paul continually discusses this in his letters.

We know believers can be carnal-minded. Scriptures themselves testify of this because they are continually reminding carnal-minded believers who they are in Christ.

In fact one of the Scriptures you quoted, 1 Co 6:9-10, if you keep reading Paul follows with as such WERE some of you. They needed to be reminded.

Bless you.

Ralph- said:

Ralph- · Feb 13, 2018

LightLoveHope said:

I composed my post while you were posting. We were thinking the same thing.

Let's see if they can admit what they claim is true about the Christian, that there is no difference between living in the flesh and growing up and away from the deeds of the flesh. I have the feeling they're suddenly going to want to make the distinction between living in the flesh and stumbling into it on occasion. Watch.

Ralph- · Feb 13, 2018

Cee said:

Sorry, Cee. If the person who claims to be born again is living in the very same life he had before his confession of Christ he is not born again as he thinks. No change means no change occurred. This does not mean Christians are sinless. It means they aren't what they used to be even if they still have a long way to go.

See, Cee, SOMEBODY has to fit into the category of the one who 'lives in sin' and who will not inherit the kingdom. If just sinning no matter how little or how much you sin is the person who will not inherit the kingdom then EVERYBODY won't inherit the kingdom, including you and me. And if you say grace is what makes it so they will be lost and you will be saved, even though you 'live in sin' just like them, then that makes grace a license to sin, which it is not.

So you can see this new grace doctrine is a false, no-win argument. You either are changed and changing showing yourself to be saved, or you are not changed and changing showing yourself to not be saved and not in line to inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back.

LightLoveHope · Feb 13, 2018

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.
For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
1 Peter 2:24-25

Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
1 Peter 2:12

Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.
1 Peter 2:16

This is our calling, to be lights in a dark world, to show the overcoming of Christs love in a cold
heart that was lost, but has now found life.

For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.
1 Peter 2:15

Ralph- · Feb 13, 2018

NoNameMcgee said:

We know if we have faith in what Jesus did on the cross and are saved by how we act. If we are still living in our old lives of sin we have not been transformed by faith in Jesus. We are not saved. We will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back.

That's doesn't mean the Christian won't sin. It means he won't be living in it anymore like he did before he was saved.

"I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."-Galatians 5:21

Don't be deceived, people. If you still 'live like this' you are not born again and you will not be saved when Jesus comes back. Don't be deceived. We've been warned. Don't be led astray into rationalizing your unsaved condition by this new grace doctrine invading the church. Be saved. Be changed. Come into the salvation of Romans 8 through a genuine faith in Jesus Christ.

LightLoveHope · Feb 13, 2018

He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.
1 Peter 3:11-12

If we are called to turn from evil and do good, that by faith in Christ and walking in love
we are called righteous and God listens to us, how can we be evil and continue to do evil?

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