GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when SDA's set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place (no traveling) on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel under the Old Covenant (Exodus 35:1) and not to the Church under the New Covenant.

Hello MMD,

Your post above has been answered with scripture multiple times already. You ignore all the scriptures and posts sent to you and do not reply to any of the posts and scriptures sent to help you that show your interpretation of God's Word is building on sifting sand.

I am worried about you my friend and ask that you at least consider the posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with your interpertation of God's Word.

Do you disagree? Please adress the posts and the scriptures that disagree with your presentation of God's Word linked for your convenience adressing your post above and well pretty much everything else you have posted....

Post # 3423; Post # 3424; Post # 3425; Post # 3426 and Post # 3427

Now if you cannot answer these posts and the scriptures in them should you not just BELIEVE and FOLLOW the WORD of GOD?

Only God's Word is true my friend and it is the Word of God that will be our judge come Judgement day. All who SIN do not KNOW him who loves all and SIN will keep all who practice is out of God's Kingdom.

.......

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Hope this helps..
 
Last edited:

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
748
43
28
valiant,
re: "...you can't produce ONE verse in the eplstles which supports your observing what you call the fourth commandment."


Hebrews 4:9 "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath."
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
113
This is sad for you my friend. The scriptures in POST # 3922 linked testify against you that your interpretation is out of CONTEXT if you do not BELIEVE God's Word is true then this is between you and God. You can always adress the post and scriptures that disagree with you but you cannot because you have built your house on sifting sand and you have no scripture to support your case.

Very clearly it can be seen in the opening scripture of Acts 15...

v1. And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

This is the CONTEXT; certain Jewish believers coming to the gentiles and saying that Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. This is the whole foundation upon which you build your argument that God's 10 Commandments are no more.

The scriptures in POST # 3922 linked testifies against your interpretation of the scriptures and showing your interpretation is out of CONTEXT? Please by all means if you do not believe this to be true, state your case and answer the post and the scriptures in the post.

Please, if you disagree with anything else I have posted earlier address the post and scriptures in them with scripture?

If you cannot it only shows everyone that you do not have any scripture to support your view. This only shows you are building your house on sand and great was the fall of it. Now you have nothing to support your view.

So sad for you my friend so sad. You teach against the God's Law and the prophets something Jesus never did. So sad so sad. Those who do such things will not see the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

...............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
Acts 15- after the Pharisees said that the gentile converts should be circumcised and keep the law of Moses ( proving that they did not have the law), the council decided that they should abstain from idols, sexual immorality , strangled things, and blood, ( all things that pagans did ).

and James commented that Moses is still read at the synagogues, so jews can still hear if they wish. at no point was Sabbath even mentioned. Moses was read at synagogues . the gentiles were not told to attended . so, how were they to learn something that they did not have , and were not told to go to synagogue.

if you want to live in ellen white fantasy where you just make it up as you go, deny Scripture and history, and pluck verses out of context and write in your ( her ) own meaning.

telling lies about what God's Word says is a sin indeed. so, you violate your own standard every time you do this.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
113
valiant,
re: "...you can't produce ONE verse in the eplstles which supports your observing what you call the fourth commandment."


Hebrews 4:9 "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath."
every mainstream translation does not translate that verse that way. i'll go with them over your one obscure source.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,564
13,547
113
58
valiant,
re: "...you can't produce ONE verse in the eplstles which supports your observing what you call the fourth commandment."

Hebrews 4:9 "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath."
Which translation is that? The SDA translation? These multiple translations in Hebrews 4:9 read:

ASV There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
AMP So there remains a [full and complete] Sabbath rest for the people of God.
AMPC So then, there is still awaiting a full and complete Sabbath-rest reserved for the [true] people of God;
CEV But God has promised us a Sabbath when we will rest, even though it has not yet come.
KJV There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
NASB So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
NCV This shows that the rest for God’s people is still coming.
NET Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.
NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
NKJV There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
NLT So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God.
NRSV So then, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God;
RSV So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God;
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

The two great witnesses stand before you and both are in agreement. The one witnesses to the other. One is OLD and one is NEW both testify of the Word of God.

But from Exod 12 onwards the Old is to ISRAEL specifically, the New is to the church worldwide.

I do not see the New agreeing with the Old, otherwise why have a NEW? The Old was in the letter, the New in the Spirit, the letter kills, the Spirit gives life.
The OLD Testament is the foundation of the NEW Testament scriptures. It is the bible of Jesus and the Apostles. It builds on the NEW it is not a different bible but the same bible fullfilling Shadows of the OLD.

If you think the OLD is in conflict with the NEW then you need to reconsider your interpretation of the NEW as God's WORD is in complete harmony and does not conflict with itself.

The letter does indeed KILL because if you SIN the WAGES of SIN is death but God's GIFT is evernal LIFE for those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW him in LOVE (Romans 6:23; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:1-4).

You stick to the old law which produces death, I prefer the New which gives life. But I do recognise their limitations. Have you read Romans 1-3? That put them in their place.
Let's look at Romans. It is God's LAW (10 Commandments) that give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20). It is through God's LAW that see that we are SINNERS in need of a Savior. Very simply, NO LAW = NO NEED OF A SAVIOR = NO SAVIOR = NO SALVATION. You do away with God's LAW you have no knowldge of your SIN and it is written...

Romans 2
12,
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

and again.......

Romans 3
31,
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Now those that have no LAW and are still in their SINS will perish and those that have faith ESTRABLISH the LAW. How can this be according to you if there is NO LAW in the NEW Testament?


But from Exod 12 onwards the Old is to ISRAEL specifically, the New is to the church worldwide. I do not disregard them.
Who are God's Israel accordind to the NEW Covenant? Please reconcile these scriptures which define who God's Israel is under the NEW Covenant...

WHO IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

What does God's Word say.........

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel..........

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again.........

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Believe the scriptures...............

Galatians 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...........

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

Seems like God's Word disagrees with you? Disagree? Please make your case and address this post with scripture. If you cannot then you should BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God.

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
748
43
28
mailmandan,
re: "Which translation is that?"

The "Holy Bible: From the Ancient Eastern Text" - from the Aramaic Scriptures - called the Peshitta
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Which translation is that? The SDA translation? These multiple translations in Hebrews 4:9 read:

ASV There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
AMP So there remains a [full and complete] Sabbath rest for the people of God.
AMPC So then, there is still awaiting a full and complete Sabbath-rest reserved for the [true] people of God;
CEV But God has promised us a Sabbath when we will rest, even though it has not yet come.
KJV There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
NASB So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
NCV This shows that the rest for God’s people is still coming.
NET Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.
NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
NKJV There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
NLT So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God.
NRSV So then, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God;
RSV So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God;
Thank you. This is what we have been talking about there is no where to hide now...

HEBREWS 4


1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points...............

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbelief (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

Hebrews 4:9 (NAS)
“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest G4520 to the people of God.”

The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)

Strong's Concordance 4520

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


Strong's Greek 4520

σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7th Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7th Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28).

There is no scripture in all of God’s Word that says that Jesus is a Sabbath only that he is the Lord of the Sabbath and he made it for all of mankind and commands us to keep it as a holy day as a memorial of creation (Mark 2:27-28; Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11)

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it....

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
113
Thank you. This is what we have been talking about there is no where to hide now...

HEBREWS 4


1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points...............

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbelief (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

Hebrews 4:9 (NAS)
“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest G4520 to the people of God.”

The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)

Strong's Concordance 4520

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


Strong's Greek 4520

σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7th Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7th Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28).

There is no scripture in all of God’s Word that says that Jesus is a Sabbath only that he is the Lord of the Sabbath and he made it for all of mankind and commands us to keep it as a holy day as a memorial of creation (Mark 2:27-28; Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11)

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it....

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
actually, Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel as a reminder for they being slaves in Egypt. if you care what the Bible says.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Acts 15- after the Pharisees said that the gentile converts should be circumcised and keep the law of Moses ( proving that they did not have the law), the council decided that they should abstain from idols, sexual immorality , strangled things, and blood, ( all things that pagans did ).

and James commented that Moses is still read at the synagogues, so jews can still hear if they wish. at no point was Sabbath even mentioned. Moses was read at synagogues . the gentiles were not told to attended . so, how were they to learn something that they did not have , and were not told to go to synagogue.

if you want to live in ellen white fantasy where you just make it up as you go, deny Scripture and history, and pluck verses out of context and write in your ( her ) own meaning.

telling lies about what God's Word says is a sin indeed. so, you violate your own standard every time you do this.
Hello friend this has already been answered multiple time with scripture so no need to keep repeating yourself if you disagree please adress the posts and scriptures that disagree with your interpretation. If you cannot only repeating yourself does not make God's Word dissappear and yours magically come true..

Your problem is that you do not understand the difference between God's LAW (10 commandments) and the Mosaic Shadow laws of the Old Covenant pointing to the NEW.

Now we have shown above already that the CONTEXT of Acts 15 is referring to CIRCUMCISSION as a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION. Circumcision is a requirement under the law of Moses. In fact God’s LAW is not mentioned except for Idolatry as a requirement for the new Gentile converts. WHY? Because Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day v21

This chapter has nothing to do with Gentiles not obeying God’s LAW (10 commandments) it is about CIRCUMCSION in the Mosaic law being a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION v1-5

You state the above because none of God's Law (10 commandments) are mentioned that the Gentiles do not need to follow them.

So gb9, if you follow this view through to its logical conclusion, Gentile believers can go kill, steal, covet murder and break all of God’s commandments as long as they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood v20.

I am sure you do not believe this, do you gb0? God’s WORD certainly does not teach this as it says those who are living a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because those who are practicing SIN have rejected the GIFT of God’s dear son (Hebrews 10:26-27).

Acts 15 says nothing about not needing to obey God's 10 commandments but that circumcision was not a requirement for salvation (CONTEXT) and that Torah was taght in the Synagoges EVERY SABBATH where the new believers would learn more about God's Word.

NOW please if you do not BELIEVE what is posted here state your case why you do not BELEIVE what is presented in this post. If you canoot should you know BELIEVE God's Word?

Anyhow please if you still disagree then please adress all the POST # 3922 linked that disagrees with your interpretation and CONTEXT of the scriptures you try to use to say God's 10 Commandments are abolished.

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

...................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
actually, Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel as a reminder for they being slaves in Egypt. if you care what the Bible says.
Not in the NEW Covenant. God's Israel are those that BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD... (Posted earlier)

WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

What does God's Word say.........

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel..........

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again.........

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Believe the scriptures...............

Galatians 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...........

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

Seems like God's Word disagrees with you? Disagree? Please make your case and address this post with scripture. If you cannot then you should BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God.

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
113
Not in the NEW Covenant. God's Israel are those that BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD... (Posted earlier)

WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

What does God's Word say.........

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel..........

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again.........

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Believe the scriptures...............

Galatians 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...........

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

Seems like God's Word disagrees with you? Disagree? Please make your case and address this post with scripture. If you cannot then you should BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God.

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
there is no such things as the law being divided into 4-5 different parts. I just read where Stephen was arrested for saying not to keep the law, and then stoned to death for telling the jews they did not keep the law. key word- LAW. not multiple. single.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
there is no such things as the law being divided into 4-5 different parts. I just read where Stephen was arrested for saying not to keep the law, and then stoned to death for telling the jews they did not keep the law. key word- LAW. not multiple. single.
What you have just said here does not even address any of the posts and scriptures sent to you that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures. I guess you have run out of scripture. It is ok maybe you can pray about it at home.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
113
What you have just said here does not even address any of the posts and scriptures sent to you that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures. I guess you have run out of scripture. It is ok maybe you can pray about it at home.
you just explained at length about the law being different pieces , then I point out that the word LAW is singular, not plural , and say I have run out of Scripture, after I pointed out that Stephen was arrested and stoned with being charged with teaching against the law, and stoned for telling the jews that they were not keeping it, you say I did not address what you said.

again, you can say a duck does not quack or swim, but anyone can observe one and see that it does. anyone can read the Bible all the way, from start to finish, and they will quickly see you are deconstructing and reconstructing Scripture based on man- ( ellen white ) made teaching.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
What you have just said here does not even address any of the posts and scriptures sent to you that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures. I guess you have run out of scripture. It is ok maybe you can pray about it at home.
But your posts never address the main issues. Quoting lots of verses proves nothing. They have to be looked at in context. LOL you should have been an Israelite. They were commanded to keep the Sabbath. WE have entered into our Sabbath rest, and are free.

IF we are bound to keep the Sabbath give me one verse from the epistles which says so
 
Last edited:

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
=mailmandan;3434213]The Gospel that I preach is the same Gospel that the apostle preached which is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) that is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). I don't reject any of God's Word, but I reject the perverted gospel of SDA's that teach salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

I don't believe religious traditions like creating images of God after the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model or observing ancient religious High Days or "Feasts unto the Lord" or creating your own Sabbaths, or lack there of are "Works worthy of repentance". It didn't work for the mainstream preachers that killed Jesus and the Prophets, I don't believe it will work for todays mainstream preachers.

What do you mean by I "create" a "death bed conversion doctrine?" I don't preach to others to wait until their death bed to be converted. In our discussion about the thief on the cross in the "If we're saved by faith" thread, I was simply pointing out that it's highly unlikely the thief was previously converted, water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief. DJ2 (who teaches that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation and is absolutely obsessed with water baptism) believes otherwise.

In Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blasheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:40-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized.
*You even said in post #177:

You and I actually had a civil conversation in that thread. Yet now you seem to be back peddling.
I must admit, I didn't think about using an "s" after one word in Matthew, who didn't even acknowledge the repentant criminal, to create or consider a whole doctrine of "death bed conversion". I'm not back peddling, I have considered it and realize how ridiculous it is to create or believe a doctrine that ignores everything we know about salvation, based on one letter at the end of a word spoken by a man that didn't even acknowledge the story to begin with. And I find it even more astounding that you would carry on as if you have no idea what I'm talking about.



Show me where I preach that. The Pharisees neglected the more important matters of the law - "justice, mercy and faithfulness” (Matthew 23:23). They focused on the letter of the Law and set out to obey it with pride, but they missed the weightier things of God. Their religion was external; their hearts were not transformed. Jesus referred to them as blind guides, white washed tombs, hypocrites! etc..
LOL, OK, read the highlighted portion. You and your religion do preach that the Pharisees were trying to obey the "letter of the Law". This lie infects your entire religious doctrine.

As a result you preach it wasn't the traditions and doctrines of man that the Pharisees preached as Law, that was the problem, it is God's Laws that are against us.

Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Rom. 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

It is a lie to preach that Jesus rejected the Pharisees because they were trying to follow God's Instructions "to the letter". If they had "Tried to follow God's Instructions" they would have known God as Jesus promised.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

In the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, we read: Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: (THAT SOUNDS SO FAMILIAR) 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ (NOTICE ALL THE "I's") 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
This is another perfect example of your man made religious preaching. When did God ever instruct people to "Fast twice a week"? This Pharisee is no different than those in Matthew 7:23. This man had created his own religion, then boasted about it. The other man understood the truth about all mankind. Why is that? Why did Jesus manifest Himself to this man and not the Pharisee? Jesus just answered this question in John 14. This humble man followed God's Instructions (sayings) not some ancient religious tradition, and therefore Jesus gave him the truth.

Straw man argument.

More straw man arguments that are leading us away from the main point of this discussion.
It's not a straw man argument and it goes to the very heart of this discussion. Since you preach the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws and not their own, you believe it is God's Law that is bad, not man made doctrines. So in Col. 2, when Paul is warning about.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

You imply be your preaching that this is referring to God's Laws, not "Commandments of Men" as it was intended..

So when you get to the cross.

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

You preach this wasn't the Law created and pushed on the Jews for centuries by the Pharisees, you preach this is talking about God's Instructions that you preach the Pharisees were "obeying with pride". This lie leads to another.

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Since you preach this was God's Laws that were against us and nailed to the cross, you must also preach Jesus "spoiled" God as the principality and power that killed Jesus. That Jesus exposed God and made a show of Him openly, since you preach it was God's Laws He nailed to the cross. You must then preach that Jesus "Triumphed" over God on the cross.

Of course this preaching is a lie. The scripture says Jesus triumphed over "them" in it. He is, of course, talking about the "traditions of men" and the "rudiments of the world" that the Pharisees had preached as Law for centuries. "THEY" are the ones Jesus triumphed over. It was their Laws that condemned Jesus, not God's. "We have a Law, and by our Law He should die". Even you must surely know God did not condemn Jesus in His Word. Surely you must know that.

So it isn't a straw man at all. It is to the heart of "Your gospel" that contradicts the Gospel of Christ.

False preachers preach a false gospel. SDA's and those in the Hebrew Roots movement have no truth to show me or my brothers and sisters in Christ. We are not fooled by their subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel (Galatians 1:6-9).

I don't have a religion and Christianity is not about a religion. It's about a relationship with God and Jesus Christ is God. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

Who are you to judge me with these false accusations?
As Jesus said, "MANY" call Him Lord, Lord. Which means "MANY" will claim to know Him, to have an intimate relationship with Him. But as it is written,

Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I do not believe preaching falsehoods about God's Word, creating images of God in the likeness of man, observing ancient religious, man made "Feasts unto the Lord" or creating our own Sabbaths is Faith in God/Jesus. Like the Pharisees, I believe people who do these things are deceived and their foolish hearts have been darkened.

Not from some preacher I can cut and paste sermons from, but by trusting the great God and His Son for Salvation.

My Gospel is the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). Galatians 1:11 - But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Yet, you preach falsehoods about God's Word.

In this age, therefore, there is a distinctive element to the content of the Gospel which is called "the mystery of the gospel" (see Ephesians 6:19 and compare with Colossians 1:26-27; 4:3). This new revelation is that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs and fellow-members of the body, and fellow-partakers of the promise (Ephesians 3:6). Such equality—Jew and Gentile united together in one body—was previously unknown. The distinctive message of the church is that Jew and Gentile alike may believe the Gospel and be united together into ONE BODY (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13).

LOL! I don't even come close to following the same program as the Pharisees and the irony here is staggering!

You are the master of irony.
Another perfect example of subtle, cleaver lies about God's Word. where did God ever deny Gentiles to come to Him? It wasn't God's Laws that were against the Gentiles, it was the mainstream preachers of that time who had promoted "Commandments of man" as Doctrine for centuries. Even Peter was swept away with this false doctrine.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

It wasn't God's Law that cause the separation between Jew and Gentile, it was the Law the Pharisees had created. The Doctrines they created from the "Commandments of Men".

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law,a Pharisee;

Ex. 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Eph. 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

When was this? Whose Laws said Gentiles were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel? Not God. He just said if they observed the Passover (Believe in Jesus) and be circumcised (repent from the heart) they would be considered as one people.

Eph. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;(Whose Laws? Not God's Laws, but the preachers of that time) for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

So Jesus made a show of "THEM" openly. The only source of God's Word on the planet was the Pharisees. God sent prophets which they killed, then he sent His Son, and they killed Him according to their Law. but whose Law stood? God's Law? or the Law the Pharisees used to condemn Him? So who did Jesus Triumph over?

Who said that repentance does not result in works worthy of repentance? Sounds like another straw man argument. In Acts 26:20 we read, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) but not the essence of repentance (to think differently or afterwards reconsider--after thought change of mind) and not the means of our salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).
What difference does it make if I repent from a lifestyle that "transgresses the Commandments of God" by personal traditions, to a religion that "transgresses the Commandments of God" by their man made doctrines and traditions?

What if Jesus is right?


You are only fooling the already fooled. :(
Maybe, but I just don't believe I honor my Savior by teaching man made doctrines and blatantly rejecting and preaching against His Instructions. So as Paul instructed in Col. 2 I will not let you or any man "judge" me in respect to choosing God's Instructions over man's religious traditions.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

I don't believe religious traditions like creating images of God after the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model or observing ancient religious High Days or "Feasts unto the Lord" or creating your own Sabbaths, or lack there of are "Works worthy of repentance". It didn't work for the mainstream preachers that killed Jesus and the Prophets, I don't believe it will work for todays mainstream preachers.





I must admit, I didn't think about using an "s" after one word in Matthew, who didn't even acknowledge the repentant criminal, to create or consider a whole doctrine of "death bed conversion". I'm not back peddling, I have considered it and realize how ridiculous it is to create or believe a doctrine that ignores everything we know about salvation, based on one letter at the end of a word spoken by a man that didn't even acknowledge the story to begin with. And I find it even more astounding that you would carry on as if you have no idea what I'm talking about.





LOL, OK, read the highlighted portion. You and your religion do preach that the Pharisees were trying to obey the "letter of the Law". This lie infects your entire religious doctrine.

As a result you preach it wasn't the traditions and doctrines of man that the Pharisees preached as Law, that was the problem, it is God's Laws that are against us.

Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Rom. 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

It is a lie to preach that Jesus rejected the Pharisees because they were trying to follow God's Instructions "to the letter". If they had "Tried to follow God's Instructions" they would have known God as Jesus promised.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.



This is another perfect example of your man made religious preaching. When did God ever instruct people to "Fast twice a week"? This Pharisee is no different than those in Matthew 7:23. This man had created his own religion, then boasted about it. The other man understood the truth about all mankind. Why is that? Why did Jesus manifest Himself to this man and not the Pharisee? Jesus just answered this question in John 14. This humble man followed God's Instructions (sayings) not some ancient religious tradition, and therefore Jesus gave him the truth.



It's not a straw man argument and it goes to the very heart of this discussion. Since you preach the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws and not their own, you believe it is God's Law that is bad, not man made doctrines. So in Col. 2, when Paul is warning about.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

You imply be your preaching that this is referring to God's Laws, not "Commandments of Men" as it was intended..

So when you get to the cross.

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

You preach this wasn't the Law created and pushed on the Jews for centuries by the Pharisees, you preach this is talking about God's Instructions that you preach the Pharisees were "obeying with pride". This lie leads to another.

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Since you preach this was God's Laws that were against us and nailed to the cross, you must also preach Jesus "spoiled" God as the principality and power that killed Jesus. That Jesus exposed God and made a show of Him openly, since you preach it was God's Laws He nailed to the cross. You must then preach that Jesus "Triumphed" over God on the cross.

Of course this preaching is a lie. The scripture says Jesus triumphed over "them" in it. He is, of course, talking about the "traditions of men" and the "rudiments of the world" that the Pharisees had preached as Law for centuries. "THEY" are the ones Jesus triumphed over. It was their Laws that condemned Jesus, not God's. "We have a Law, and by our Law He should die". Even you must surely know God did not condemn Jesus in His Word. Surely you must know that.

So it isn't a straw man at all. It is to the heart of "Your gospel" that contradicts the Gospel of Christ.



As Jesus said, "MANY" call Him Lord, Lord. Which means "MANY" will claim to know Him, to have an intimate relationship with Him. But as it is written,

Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I do not believe preaching falsehoods about God's Word, creating images of God in the likeness of man, observing ancient religious, man made "Feasts unto the Lord" or creating our own Sabbaths is Faith in God/Jesus. Like the Pharisees, I believe people who do these things are deceived and their foolish hearts have been darkened.

Not from some preacher I can cut and paste sermons from, but by trusting the great God and His Son for Salvation.



Yet, you preach falsehoods about God's Word.



Another perfect example of subtle, cleaver lies about God's Word. where did God ever deny Gentiles to come to Him? It wasn't God's Laws that were against the Gentiles, it was the mainstream preachers of that time who had promoted "Commandments of man" as Doctrine for centuries. Even Peter was swept away with this false doctrine.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

It wasn't God's Law that cause the separation between Jew and Gentile, it was the Law the Pharisees had created. The Doctrines they created from the "Commandments of Men".

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law,a Pharisee;

Ex. 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Eph. 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

When was this? Whose Laws said Gentiles were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel? Not God. He just said if they observed the Passover (Believe in Jesus) and be circumcised (repent from the heart) they would be considered as one people.

Eph. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;(Whose Laws? Not God's Laws, but the preachers of that time) for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

So Jesus made a show of "THEM" openly. The only source of God's Word on the planet was the Pharisees. God sent prophets which they killed, then he sent His Son, and they killed Him according to their Law. but whose Law stood? God's Law? or the Law the Pharisees used to condemn Him? So who did Jesus Triumph over?



What difference does it make if I repent from a lifestyle that "transgresses the Commandments of God" by personal traditions, to a religion that "transgresses the Commandments of God" by their man made doctrines and traditions?

What if Jesus is right?




Maybe, but I just don't believe I honor my Savior by teaching man made doctrines and blatantly rejecting and preaching against His Instructions. So as Paul instructed in Col. 2 I will not let you or any man "judge" me in respect to choosing God's Instructions over man's religious traditions.
LOL you worship 'the ten commandments' which were given to Israel, and formalised by the Roman Catholic church.

'The commandments of God' are far wider and all embracing but exclude that of observing the Sabbath which was given specifically to the Israel and those who united with them in the old testament,.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
But from Exod 12 onwards the Old is to ISRAEL specifically, the New is to the church worldwide.

I do not see the New agreeing with the Old, otherwise why have a NEW? The Old was in the letter, the New in the Spirit, the letter kills, the Spirit gives life.
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure! Christ in us the Hope of Glory!

Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed.
For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Divine utterances; Christ the Anointed; GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law.) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before.

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, (and we shall be one flesh) saith the LORD.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts
; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:and of their sins and their lawlessnesses shall I under no circumstances still be reminded.'



(2Co 3:3-5; Rom 10:6-8; Deut 30:10-14;Jer 31:31-34;Heb 10:17,18)
lol you can't produce ONE verse in the eplstles which supports your observing what you call the fourth commandment. Not ONE.
GOD states in the New Covenant that HIS Law, HIS Word, The Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law are to be in our hearts, in our minds, and in our mouths not me.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Originally Posted by valiant lol you can't produce ONE verse in the eplstles which supports your observing what you call the fourth commandment. Not ONE
.
GOD states in the New Covenant that HIS Law, HIS Word, The Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law are to be in our hearts, in our minds, and in our mouths not me.
well were is it?
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
I just read where Stephen was arrested for saying not to keep the law, and then stoned to death for telling the jews they did not keep the law. key word- LAW. not multiple. single.
What? You are mistaken. What version are you reading from?

And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
(Act 6:13-14 KJV)
Couple that with the condemnation Stephen throws out at them through the Spirit at the end of his discourse.

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
(Act 7:51-54 KJV)