The Rapture

[DiscipleDave]

Only in your mind does the 4 eschatologyical views not come from the Bible!! Your distorted view of scripture is the cause of your belief.

You have ears to hear, but do not hear, you have eyes to read but do not see. Have i not said over and over again that what i believe, my view, comes from God. But for some reason you can't hear that nor see that? my views are irrelevant, my views of what i think the end times shall be are irrelevant. the 4 eschatological views that came from men are irrelevant. What i teach is what God told me. What He told me is what i choose to believe. The are then not my view, but His who told me His view. Do you have ears but can't hear me saying that. Do you have eyes but can't read these words?

You claim Christian theologians studying the Bible reading carefully ALL eschatologyical portions of scripture are deluded.

You are once again, in error, because you are not reading carefully what is being said, YOU are in the way. i have never said or even implied that the 4 views are deluded? i have never read the 4 views and can't possibly make that assumption without reading them. For all i know one of those views may be the same view that God told me. But my point is i would never have made a false statement as to saying the 4 views are deluded, not having read any of those 4 views. You do error in thinking that i have done this thing. Again, you are not reading carefully, but you are reading into stuff what i am saying, and thinking that i am thinking this way or that. Would it not have been more Godly to say "Dave are you saying the 4 views are deluded" Then to automatically assume that is what i think, and worse yet, accusing me of saying such a thing. You do error in not paying attention to what is actually being said. Don't assume anything, merely ask me if that is what i think or don't think, would be more Godly of a thing to do, do you not agree?

One vs the world of Christian Biblical scholars.

Many enter at the broad and wide gate that leads to destruction, but only a very few, and i mean a very few will FIND that narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting. So tell me. if one of those few people on that narrow path is trying to show those who are on the wide path to destruction, the narrow and difficult way, would they all not say as you do "Oh what its just you against all of us? All of us are on the wrong path and just little oh you on the right path?"

To counter this you claim special revelation from angels. Angels would not contradict the Bible the way what you preach does.

Again, proof that you are not listening nor reading carefully. i have never said i have received special revelation from Angels. You are not listening are you? Having ears but can't hear. Eyes but can't see. i will say it again, not that i think you can now hear it, or now see it, but that i fail to not try anyways. What i teach comes from GOD, not angels.

You also in the above sentence accuse me of teaching something contrary to Scriptures. Isn't it customary if a person is going to accuse someone of teaching something contrary to Scriptures that they would list the Scripture? Hmmm. But you have not listed any Scriptures.

i have been saying on CC for many years not. If you think i am teaching something contrary to Scriptures then reveal the Scripture. If you can't, then how is it not just your opinion that is contrary and not Scriptures?

If then you accuse me of teaching something contrary to Scriptures, then do the Godly thing and reveal those Scriptures. But i already know you can't, why? Because there are none that contradict what God told me. So look forward to hearing from you those Scriptures that you accuse me of contradicting. How be it this is something else that you will not answer.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

The Bible says that those who are in the First Resurrection are blessed. From this we can conclude there are more events than one concerning the Resurrection. There is also the Resurrection of the Great White Throne of Judgement. What people don't realize is that the Bible does not say that these are the ONLY Two Resurrections.......

The First Resurrection is the Rapture.
The Second Resurrection is when satan raises up his army to attack the Holy City Jerusalem.

The Great White Throne Judgement is not a resurrection, that happens After that great battle when satan and all those who are with him will be judged and cast into Hell for all eternity.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;(Rapture) and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.(at the end of satan being bound and prior to the Great Battle for the Holy City)

Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:(Rapture)on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (while satan is bound during that time)

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Bladerunner]

Bladerunner No.

. Different " type " of trumpets ? No ; that is bad fruit .
Revelation doesn't give us multiple choices. They're even presented in order ..

Except what it says or just join the free for all confusion so often illustrated in internet forums ; and always wounder never obtaining the answer because people are too rebellious to listen .....

I could discuss this with you but you have already denied the different types of Trumps. The one question I have......If the Last Trump of God is the seventh trumpet, what happened to the Millennium? I thought the last trump of Judgement was after the Millennium. There have been Trumpets sounding throughout the History of mankind mostly by Man himself. Oh-well

Either way, here is an article by the Koinonia House that will give you a different perspective on trumpets.
Israel's New Year Begins:: The Feast of Trumpets – Chuck Missler – Koinonia House

 

[Bladerunner]

I dont believe the Pope and the RCC are Babylon and the Beast and anyone who does is being deceived. The same goes for those who are convinced its Islam the USA or whatever the latest popular target might be.

Deceived about what? Whether they are the False Profit or not does not change the facts that they are bringing a billion people to the feet of Satan.

 

[Bladerunner]

How can your theory cancel what is written?

You are asking me that question.

I don't make your theory my litmus test.
Just ask yourself if " every man,woman,and child...." means what it says,or how you skip it and just say it's not true.

Not really sure which scripture you are talking about here....please state or just give out the scripture..I can look it up.

 

[Deade]

I dont believe the Pope and the RCC are Babylon and the Beast and anyone who does is being deceived. The same goes for those who are convinced its Islam the USA or whatever the latest popular target might be.

So, tanakh,

What do you believe? Anything?

Yours,

Deade

 

[heartofdavid]

Not really sure which scripture you are talking about here....please state or just give out the scripture..I can look it up.

[FONT=&quot]Rev 13;15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.[/FONT]

 

[Endoscopy]

You have ears to hear, but do not hear, you have eyes to read but do not see. Have i not said over and over again that what i believe, my view, comes from God. But for some reason you can't hear that nor see that? my views are irrelevant, my views of what i think the end times shall be are irrelevant. the 4 eschatological views that came from men are irrelevant. What i teach is what God told me. What He told me is what i choose to believe. The are then not my view, but His who told me His view. Do you have ears but can't hear me saying that. Do you have eyes but can't read these words?



You are once again, in error, because you are not reading carefully what is being said, YOU are in the way. i have never said or even implied that the 4 views are deluded? i have never read the 4 views and can't possibly make that assumption without reading them. For all i know one of those views may be the same view that God told me. But my point is i would never have made a false statement as to saying the 4 views are deluded, not having read any of those 4 views. You do error in thinking that i have done this thing. Again, you are not reading carefully, but you are reading into stuff what i am saying, and thinking that i am thinking this way or that. Would it not have been more Godly to say "Dave are you saying the 4 views are deluded" Then to automatically assume that is what i think, and worse yet, accusing me of saying such a thing. You do error in not paying attention to what is actually being said. Don't assume anything, merely ask me if that is what i think or don't think, would be more Godly of a thing to do, do you not agree?



Many enter at the broad and wide gate that leads to destruction, but only a very few, and i mean a very few will FIND that narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting. So tell me. if one of those few people on that narrow path is trying to show those who are on the wide path to destruction, the narrow and difficult way, would they all not say as you do "Oh what its just you against all of us? All of us are on the wrong path and just little oh you on the right path?"



Again, proof that you are not listening nor reading carefully. i have never said i have received special revelation from Angels. You are not listening are you? Having ears but can't hear. Eyes but can't see. i will say it again, not that i think you can now hear it, or now see it, but that i fail to not try anyways. What i teach comes from GOD, not angels.

You also in the above sentence accuse me of teaching something contrary to Scriptures. Isn't it customary if a person is going to accuse someone of teaching something contrary to Scriptures that they would list the Scripture? Hmmm. But you have not listed any Scriptures.

i have been saying on CC for many years not. If you think i am teaching something contrary to Scriptures then reveal the Scripture. If you can't, then how is it not just your opinion that is contrary and not Scriptures?

If then you accuse me of teaching something contrary to Scriptures, then do the Godly thing and reveal those Scriptures. But i already know you can't, why? Because there are none that contradict what God told me. So look forward to hearing from you those Scriptures that you accuse me of contradicting. How be it this is something else that you will not answer.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Historically those who have made pronouncements like you are making have been proven false. At 73 I have seen this more than a few times. You are in the company of Jim Jones. He convinced a group of people to go with him to Guyana. There in the end he gave a new meaning to drinking kool-aid. He made pronouncements like you make about being given messages from God. He ended up having all of his hfollowers drink poison laced kool-aid.

Too many people have made pronouncements like you and all of them have been proven false. Therefore with my experience with those who talk like you I totally reject what you say. I believe you must have mental health problems

 

[heartofdavid]

The First Resurrection is the Rapture.
The Second Resurrection is when satan raises up his army to attack the Holy City Jerusalem.

The Great White Throne Judgement is not a resurrection, that happens After that great battle when satan and all those who are with him will be judged and cast into Hell for all eternity.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;(Rapture) and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.(at the end of satan being bound and prior to the Great Battle for the Holy City)

Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:(Rapture)on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (while satan is bound during that time)

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

No,the first resurrection is 4 parts.
First fruits....Jesus and the patriarchs.
Rapture is main harvest.


Without the OT,the NT is understood only in part.

This is why Ruth is key.

 

[PlainWord]

The problem I see for you PL is that you have the "thousand" years with no end, whereas John states after the "thousand" years, so there is an end, and wherever you posit that end is where the resurrection is:

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

On the one hand you say that Hades was emptied of the righteous and unrighteous in 70 AD, but you now have another resurrection after the "thousand" years.

Summat not quite right here.

Let's not lose track of which realm (physical or spiritual) that these things are taking place. There is nothing in Rev 20:4-6 taking place in the physical (visible) realm. The beheaded saints are in the spiritual realm reigning with Christ. The "dead" are in the spiritual realm separated from God. There is no time in heaven, as I pointed out and Peter affirms. Since there is no sun in heaven, there is no time by scientific definition. Time is just a dimension.

Do the beheaded saints reigning with Christ stop reigning with Him after the so called thousand years? Do they cease being priests of God and of Christ? If so, then what do they do and what becomes of them?

 

[PlainWord]

Loc,

Further to my last post, the so-called "millennium" takes place in the spiritual realm. The "thousand years" is only given so mortals can know that these spiritual conditions go on for a very long "time." There is no way for a first century man to grasp this and even we struggle to. Rev 20:4-6 must be in the spiritual realm because that is the where the beheaded and Christ can be found reigning. It is also in the spiritual realm where Satan exists. However, as Paul instructs the Ephesians, spiritual beings influence us in our physical realm. Where does all the really important action take place, in the physical or spiritual realm?

Not to get too scientific but in our physical (visible) realm we are bound by the "Space-time Continuum." Our world, lives and history as we know it can all be found in a 4 dimensional, space-time "box" (3 dimensions of space, 1 of time) as it were. All events, places, moments in history, actions, etc are described within their location in the space-time continuum. The spiritual realm is not bound by our physical properties or laws.

We comprehend almost nothing of the spiritual realm but I know this, trying to overlay future events in the spiritual realm to future events in our physical realm is an exercise in futility.

 

[abcdef]

Let's not lose track of which realm (physical or spiritual) that these things are taking place. There is nothing in Rev 20:4-6 taking place in the physical (visible) realm. The beheaded saints are in the spiritual realm reigning with Christ. The "dead" are in the spiritual realm separated from God. There is no time in heaven, as I pointed out and Peter affirms. Since there is no sun in heaven, there is no time by scientific definition. Time is just a dimension.

Brother PW,

Those beheaded would be John the Baptist, and he did not take the mark of the beast Rome.

They reign over the kingdom on earth with Jesus by the proclamations of the king, the proclamations are the Bible.

The 1000 years is the time of the kingdom/church on planet earth.

The resurrections are, the 1st resur. Jesus, the 2nd resur. those at His coming 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.

Satan is the Roman dragon v 2, with 7 heads and 10 horns Rev 12:3.

When Satan is released from his chain, he deceives the nations Magog, into surrounding restored to Israel Jerusalem.

The chain is, Israel had to return from being dispersed in the gentile nations, to restore Jerusalem, before it could be surrounded. This is also shown in Rev 12:15-16 where he flood of waters/people could not reach the woman Israel in the wilderness of the gentile nations.

Do the beheaded saints reigning with Christ stop reigning with Him after the so called thousand years?

No, they stop reigning over the kingdom on earth, because there is no planet left but fire, the kingdom has been taken with Jesus at the 2nd resurrection to judgment and heaven.

Do they cease being priests of God and of Christ? If so, then what do they do and what becomes of them?

After the fire from heaven, this material heaven and earth fly away, then there is only being with Jesus, or not being with Jesus.

The judgment, death is destroyed 1 Cor 15:23-28, the kingdom is delivered up to the Father for the wedding, and eternity.

------

Also see how there is no reference to a paradise on earth, but there is to war.

Satan is on earth, but he is restricted from the thing he wants to do, until he is released to surround Jerusalem.



[/QUOTE]

 

[Roadkill]

Hi Roadkill,

1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24, Shows only 2 resurrections.

1. Jesus, the 1st resur.

2. Those at His coming, the 2nd resur.

3. The end, Death is destroyed

4. Jesus delivers the kingdom up to the Father

5. Father is All in All

The different passages in Rev. are showing either the 1st or the 2nd resur.

All true, like I said I will not contradict scripture. But my point is the Bible does not say these are the only 2 Resurrections.
At the end of the Church age there is another not mentioned in the Bible. This concerns the Mystery of the Church age and it not being in the last 3 and 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period. God will not allow innocents or True Christians to suffer his wrath in this time period, therefor there is another Rapture of the Church Age before this time period. True, not mentioned in the Bible. But still one can reason it out. I on the other hand have been verbally told by a Cherubim Angel that this is so.
For those able to receive it, in The Love and Grace of our Father in Heaven.

 

[heartofdavid]

All true, like I said I will not contradict scripture. But my point is the Bible does not say these are the only 2 Resurrections.
At the end of the Church age there is another not mentioned in the Bible. This concerns the Mystery of the Church age and it not being in the last 3 and 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period. God will not allow innocents or True Christians to suffer his wrath in this time period, therefor there is another Rapture of the Church Age before this time period. True, not mentioned in the Bible. But still one can reason it out. I on the other hand have been verbally told by a Cherubim Angel that this is so.
For those able to receive it, in The Love and Grace of our Father in Heaven.

Could be.
The 144 k are in heaven in rev 14.
Not clear how they got there. The other group in 14 is raptured

You can count on one hand the folks that accept what the word says.

Why?

Because of their ultra heavy investment in their own notions.
They litterally can not back up,so CHOOSE to be mired in a notion

 

[heartofdavid]

Brother PW,

Those beheaded would be John the Baptist, and he did not take the mark of the beast Rome.

They reign over the kingdom on earth with Jesus by the proclamations of the king, the proclamations are the Bible.

The 1000 years is the time of the kingdom/church on planet earth.

The resurrections are, the 1st resur. Jesus, the 2nd resur. those at His coming 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.

Satan is the Roman dragon v 2, with 7 heads and 10 horns Rev 12:3.

When Satan is released from his chain, he deceives the nations Magog, into surrounding restored to Israel Jerusalem.

The chain is, Israel had to return from being dispersed in the gentile nations, to restore Jerusalem, before it could be surrounded. This is also shown in Rev 12:15-16 where he flood of waters/people could not reach the woman Israel in the wilderness of the gentile nations.




No, they stop reigning over the kingdom on earth, because there is no planet left but fire, the kingdom has been taken with Jesus at the 2nd resurrection to judgment and heaven.




After the fire from heaven, this material heaven and earth fly away, then there is only being with Jesus, or not being with Jesus.

The judgment, death is destroyed 1 Cor 15:23-28, the kingdom is delivered up to the Father for the wedding, and eternity.

------

Also see how there is no reference to a paradise on earth, but there is to war.

Satan is on earth, but he is restricted from the thing he wants to do, until he is released to surround Jerusalem.

[/QUOTE]

No, JTB does not fit at all.
He was not in that time frame and neither are we.
Show us some mark in history the world was required to take

 

[Roadkill]

Could be.
The 144 k are in heaven in rev 14.
Not clear how they got there. The other group in 14 is raptured

You can count on one hand the folks that accept what the word says.

Why?

Because of their ultra heavy investment in their own notions.
They litterally can not back up,so CHOOSE to be mired in a notion

They try to "Box" God in with what they understand. God is so much greater than that. The Bible clearly states there are other sources to consider than the Scriptures. Just try them first 1st John 4:1-4. Also they should never contradict the Bible, just compliment it.

 

[abcdef]

All true, like I said I will not contradict scripture. But my point is the Bible does not say these are the only 2 Resurrections.

There are ONLY 2 resurrections, that is exactly what it is saying. We can't add or take away from the scriptures.

At the end of the Church age there is another not mentioned in the Bible.

Now you are adding to what Paul said in 1 Cor 15:23-28. After the resurrection of those that are his, it is the end, Paul is specific. Then you say, "Oh no, it s not the end."

This concerns the Mystery of the Church age and it not being in the last 3 and 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period.

The kingdom/church is on earth during the trib period. The trib described is mainly the withdrawing of blessings on the broken branches.

God will not allow innocents or True Christians to suffer his wrath in this time period, therefor there is another Rapture of the Church Age before this time period.

The "wrath" that we are saved from is the wrath of the 2nd death, not the tribs of this world.

True, not mentioned in the Bible. But still one can reason it out.

Reasoning is good.

I on the other hand have been verbally told by a Cherubim Angel that this is so.

The Bible has more authority than any angel that you have spoken to or seen.

Islam started with an angel speaking.

Mormons started with an angel speaking.

There are real, lying, angels of Satan, who try to add, take away, or change the Word of God, the Bible. But for us, the Bible is the final authority and completed gospel word.

No spirit, vision, thought, or entity that disagrees with the Bible can stand.

In the end it will be completely destroyed, and possibly those who hold to the false word.

For those able to receive it, in The Love and Grace of our Father in Heaven.

Love is good, truth is it's light to us, for us.

 

[abcdef]

No, JTB does not fit at all.
He was not in that time frame and neither are we.
Show us some mark in history the world was required to take

I did show you, but you just skip over posts that it is impossible for you to answer and maintain your false pretrib theory.

The answer is in post #8493, that shows that the mark is mainly concerning Rome and Israel, and not the planet.

 

[Deade]

Hello abcdef,

You said: Jesus' resurrection is the 1st resurrection, Paul plainly says that. The resurrection of Jesus is the 1st resurrection of Rev 20, unless you want to change the meaning that Paul applied to it. Please give the scripture ref.

You also speak of the rapture. I take it you are mid-trib. I am post trib.

Yours,

Deade

 

[OtherWay210]

I ask this question to the thread, if rapture is in the bible ( its not ) ,
why then did Christ give revelation to Christians ?
Revelation helps no one else but the believer who understands it , because non believers wont understand it .
You need The Spirit of God, as a believer in Christ, to have a change at grasping it, or to even care.
When those events begin,as taught in the bible, the warning was for naught, if the believer is not here.
It would be too late to learn it .


Just to share that the first Resurrection , is at the lords day. thats future..
Christ resurrected long before that.
That passage is talking about those who did not take the mark of the beast, They take part in the first Resurrection ( eternal life )
in comparison to those who did take the mark who live not again until the end of the Lords day.

eternal life of the believer is at risk, who did not listen to revelation thinking they'd be taken somewhere. This is why the mark of the ebeaest is mentioned, because they did go through the tribulation. You can be sure that those who believed rapture, wont be there in that group of the first Resurrection, if around at the trib of Satan.


Im not going to reply, because i dont have time to argue this .