Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Everybody knows works don't earn salvation. What few know is it is by my works that I know that I have the imputed righteousness of Christ. Instead the church thinks their dead faith somehow shows they are saved. Maybe they are saved maybe they aren't. But one thing's for sure, because the Bible says it, if you are living in your old life you will not inherit the kingdom, you are not born again. Don't beat me up for what the Bible says. Take it to God.
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then i guess im taking a break....
im at work anyway
i just still hope one day ralph and those onlookers still fighting this fight
you accept the righteousness of Jesus Christ to save you
that doesnt mean let sin abound like false accusers say
that means accept no matter how much YOU DO you dont earn keep or provide salvation apart from by His grace through faith in Him when you answer His call and accept His sacrifice
its not by works
im at work anyway
i just still hope one day ralph and those onlookers still fighting this fight
you accept the righteousness of Jesus Christ to save you
that doesnt mean let sin abound like false accusers say
that means accept no matter how much YOU DO you dont earn keep or provide salvation apart from by His grace through faith in Him when you answer His call and accept His sacrifice
its not by works
E
Thats the part some can not accept. They see it as defeatism, or as excusing sin..
Your right though bro. I have to realise no matter how Good I think I am, I still fall short of Gods glory. In this, and ONLY in this, and in Gods grace. Can I keep outward focused. Because I know God has my back. And when I fall. He will help me back up and keep my going forward. It is called reliance on God. Not on self.
As the apostle John said, I write these things so you may KNOW YOU HAVE eternal life. And with this knowledge, continue to have faiht in him.
Our faiht is not in our works. Our faith is in the knowledge of God and KNOWING or TRUSTING he will keep his word.
Your right though bro. I have to realise no matter how Good I think I am, I still fall short of Gods glory. In this, and ONLY in this, and in Gods grace. Can I keep outward focused. Because I know God has my back. And when I fall. He will help me back up and keep my going forward. It is called reliance on God. Not on self.
As the apostle John said, I write these things so you may KNOW YOU HAVE eternal life. And with this knowledge, continue to have faiht in him.
Our faiht is not in our works. Our faith is in the knowledge of God and KNOWING or TRUSTING he will keep his word.
I just quoted what Paul said about the Pharisees and you rejected his words, along with Jesus and Jeremiah. Choosing instead to take one or two sentences from Paul and use them to make void the rest of the Bible. Why? Because just like the False preachers in Christ's time, the Bible exposes your religion as from man and not from God.
You can't take a couple of sentences from Paul, twist them, then use them to relegate the entire Bible as false and void.
God's Word: Regarding the Pharisees
(Jesus) "But in vain they do worship me, Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men".
(Jesus) "For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders;"
(Jesus) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
(Jesus) "My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."
(Jesus) "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
(Jesus) Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
(Jeremiah) Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
(Paul) And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
(Paul) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Paul) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
(Paul) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
(Paul) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(Stephen) 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
(Jeremiah) A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
(Pharisees) "We have a Law, and by our Law He must die"
Decon's word regarding the Pharisees: "Walking in all of God's Commandments, "Blameless".
I love the Salvation God created. We have millions of people like you and "many" of your friends who push some religious doctrine or religious franchise.
But I don't need a degree from "Moody Bible School", nor do I have to choose between one religion who transgresses the Commandments of God by their church traditions from another religion that transgresses the Commandments of God by their church traditions. I have only to "seek" Jesus and follow His instructions and He let's me know who are His and who are not. That is His Promise, and I believe in Him. And you are living proof that this promise is alive and well today.
What a great and merciful God.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
So Decon, your preaching that the Pharisees were trying to "earn" salvation by following God's Instructions is a lie, a false teaching. The Bible exposes this lie over and over as I have demonstrated. Will you be corrected? Or will you continue to further what you have been shown is a deception? We will see.
You can't take a couple of sentences from Paul, twist them, then use them to relegate the entire Bible as false and void.
God's Word: Regarding the Pharisees
(Jesus) "But in vain they do worship me, Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men".
(Jesus) "For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders;"
(Jesus) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
(Jesus) "My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."
(Jesus) "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
(Jesus) Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
(Jeremiah) Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
(Paul) And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
(Paul) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Paul) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
(Paul) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
(Paul) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(Stephen) 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
(Jeremiah) A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
(Pharisees) "We have a Law, and by our Law He must die"
Decon's word regarding the Pharisees: "Walking in all of God's Commandments, "Blameless".
I love the Salvation God created. We have millions of people like you and "many" of your friends who push some religious doctrine or religious franchise.
But I don't need a degree from "Moody Bible School", nor do I have to choose between one religion who transgresses the Commandments of God by their church traditions from another religion that transgresses the Commandments of God by their church traditions. I have only to "seek" Jesus and follow His instructions and He let's me know who are His and who are not. That is His Promise, and I believe in Him. And you are living proof that this promise is alive and well today.
What a great and merciful God.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
So Decon, your preaching that the Pharisees were trying to "earn" salvation by following God's Instructions is a lie, a false teaching. The Bible exposes this lie over and over as I have demonstrated. Will you be corrected? Or will you continue to further what you have been shown is a deception? We will see.
This truly does say that you bear false witness. I can't remember EVER TRASHING anyone on CC. And I CERTAINLY didn't "trash" you.
I believe your doctrine of works to attain/maintain/ or prove Salvation is a false Gospel. And ANYTHING that deviates from the beauty, Grace, Love, and simplicity of THE Gospel unto Salvation, I will call out as false and destructive. But I WILL NOT, nor have not, personally attacked you.
That would be totally contrary to what we are called to do. Which is to spread His Gospel, Love the Lord, and Love my neighbor.
So I understand you don't like the calling out of what I think is a false Gospel, but do not equate that with either hating you or trashing you. Thanks
I believe your doctrine of works to attain/maintain/ or prove Salvation is a false Gospel. And ANYTHING that deviates from the beauty, Grace, Love, and simplicity of THE Gospel unto Salvation, I will call out as false and destructive. But I WILL NOT, nor have not, personally attacked you.
That would be totally contrary to what we are called to do. Which is to spread His Gospel, Love the Lord, and Love my neighbor.
So I understand you don't like the calling out of what I think is a false Gospel, but do not equate that with either hating you or trashing you. Thanks
True forventrance into heaven. But unforgiveness pollutes thevwater of life within us and bitterness flows. What did they do in the OT for bitter water? They threw a tree into it didn't they? I would have to look that up. It just came to me. This sin doesn't just cause bitterness, but is that at the root of unbalanced thinking leading to mental illness.
Possibly theres a place of healing for His people in heaven. He told me He heals now and then.
And none of us will enter perfect.
Possibly theres a place of healing for His people in heaven. He told me He heals now and then.
And none of us will enter perfect.
You continually forget the foundation of our faith. It's not faith in our works. That would be dead works indeed.
Our faith alone that grants eternal salvation is in His works alone.
Listen a little closer to what Dcon is saying. He's the only one of us who continually says this without explaining. He sticks to the simplicity that is in Christ. Maybe we all should until this is affirmed.
The blood of Jesus, living now in eternity as the sign of finished work for all mankind.
Dont insult the Spirit of grace!
you do understand that the Pharisees had created a bunch of laws ( the traditions of the elders ) to ensure that God's law was kept, but they were more concerned with keeping the law their way, not God's way. that is why Christ disagreed with them so strongly.
God's way is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. your way, and most denominations way, is a mix of law and command keeping and grace. not saved BY grace , Through faith, FOR good works.
most churches, and you , teach this- saved by faith, demonstrated by good works, and if you have enough faith, and do enough good works, then God gives you grace.
this makes logical sense. but, it is not Biblical, and will not save one soul from hell. grace-faith-works will.
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Theres a little bit of truth here. I just disagree on how it's dealt with.
Paul speaks of judging self twice in scripture. One he says he does not judge himself. He teaches our focus is on Jesus. The second time he says we do but it's when Holy Spirit reveals something to him. Remember, pruning is only the dead removed. Not the living. Understand?
