Not By Works

[Endoscopy]

Not exactly only through him our we without sin,like when we do something in the spirit,we in general still have sin,but yes he paid our penalty of sin"old sin" so that we would be no longer a "slave to sin" our ultimate freedom from sin is after judgement day for we will not be in the flesh having new bodies.

Here is what I am saying. This is from a Bible dictionary

Imputation


Imputation is used to designate any action or word or thing as reckoned to a person. Thus in doctrinal language
(1) the sin of Adam is imputed to all his descendants, i.e., it is reckoned as theirs, and they are dealt with therefore as guilty;
(2) the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them that believe in him, or so attributed to them as to be considered their own; and
(3) our sins are imputed to Christ, i.e., he assumed our "law-place," undertook to answer the demands of justice for our sins.


In all these cases the nature of imputation is the same ( Romans 5:12-19 ; Compare Philemon 1:18 Philemon 1:19 ).

 

[homwardbound]

Originally Posted by stonesoffire

This scripture that Father won't forgive if we refuse to forgive has always bothered me. And I remembered the Word I read last night that He is our eternal High Priest and intercedes forever. I know that I know His blood speaks mercy, the better Voice. So I asked Him finally, why this was in the scripture.

He told me this has to do with being presented to the Father. That intercession is not just for this earth realm. He heals. We are totally His own and will make us ready to be with Father. So I needed a scripture to confirm this.

For we know that when we see Him, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

Great peace have they which love thy law, and nothing shall offend them.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The law of liberty.

[h=1]Colossians 1:21-23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and benot moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, andwhich was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;[/FONT]

 

[joefizz]

Here is what I am saying. This is from a Bible dictionary

Imputation


Imputation is used to designate any action or word or thing as reckoned to a person. Thus in doctrinal language
(1) the sin of Adam is imputed to all his descendants, i.e., it is reckoned as theirs, and they are dealt with therefore as guilty;
(2) the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them that believe in him, or so attributed to them as to be considered their own; and
(3) our sins are imputed to Christ, i.e., he assumed our "law-place," undertook to answer the demands of justice for our sins.


In all these cases the nature of imputation is the same ( Romans 5:12-19 ; Compare Philemon 1:18 Philemon 1:19 ).

Yes our sins are imputed to Jesus "only once" for he only died "once" after your sin is gone the "once" and you sin afterward you must let the holy spirit guide you and seek counsel with Jesus for forgiveness,it's a "one time gift"not a "repetitive one".

 

[homwardbound]

Here is what I am saying. This is from a Bible dictionary

Imputation


Imputation is used to designate any action or word or thing as reckoned to a person. Thus in doctrinal language
(1) the sin of Adam is imputed to all his descendants, i.e., it is reckoned as theirs, and they are dealt with therefore as guilty;
(2) the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them that believe in him, or so attributed to them as to be considered their own; and
(3) our sins are imputed to Christ, i.e., he assumed our "law-place," undertook to answer the demands of justice for our sins.


In all these cases the nature of imputation is the same ( Romans 5:12-19 ; Compare Philemon 1:18 Philemon 1:19 ).

We are freed to be new in belief to his Son as risen for us to be new in and not of self, yes, learning this not by my works, by Father's in Son the two as Won (ONE) for us to be new, nothing in work left for me to do, just respond in thanksgiving and praise taking it thankfully, and not using this for to get away with harming others

 

[homwardbound]

Yes our sins are imputed to Jesus "only once" for he only died "once" after your sin is gone the "once" and you sin afterward you must let the holy spirit guide you and seek counsel with Jesus for forgiveness,it's a "one time gift"not a "repetitive one".

Yes see it as in 1John 2:1-2, 12 Eph 1:8-7,13, Col 1:21-23, Romans 5:1-10 and so much more scriptures tell us the same we are forgiven, reconciled, made right with Father forever in Son's onetime done work for us all,\\

To turn to Father in Thanksgiving and praise all sin is taken away today and forever by Son's death once for all, in Father's sight this is seen not any others.

Romans 9:15, Father still holds this right and sees what James tells us by him through James about us if we do not get in in

[h=1]James 4:1-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]4 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.[/FONT]

 

[Endoscopy]

Avoid the King James version bible,hah how preposterous,it's ok to have a "preference" but like it or not God's word is "True",to be honest I find it ironic to say so considering how poorly the modern versions translate,the King James version has stood the test of time because it is inspired and accurate,true somethings are different today but words like "kill" haven't actually "changed" in meaning people over time just "change" what they don't like to "hear",like Ass it's always meant donkey but due to idiotic modern language people have perverted the word.
You have your outlook others have theirs.

Then according to the KJV if you are in an automobile accident and a person in the other car is killed you are guilty of murder using the definition in 1611. Language changes over time. In 1600 it was a complement to say you stink. Then odor took over. Lastly smell was a complement. Today a person has to add a modifier to smell. "You smell nice."

Location matters as well. British Commonwealth English is different than American English. Then there is the English spoken in India. When I was in Australia I watched a movie on TV. It was a WWII movie about the Australian troops. They talked about being pissed and drinking piss. In British Commonwealth English I found later from Australians that it meant getting drunk and drinking alcoholic beverages.

In the British Commonwealth a car has a boot and bonnet. Wheat to them is corn. (any grain to them is corn)

Live with the reality that English changes with time and location.

 

[joefizz]

Then according to the KJV if you are in an automobile accident and a person in the other car is killed you are guilty of murder using the definition in 1611. Language changes over time. In 1600 it was a complement to say you stink. Then odor took over. Lastly smell was a complement. Today a person has to add a modifier to smell. "You smell nice."

Location matters as well. British Commonwealth English is different than American English. Then there is the English spoken in India. When I was in Australia I watched a movie on TV. It was a WWII movie about the Australian troops. They talked about being pissed and drinking piss. In British Commonwealth English I found later from Australians that it meant getting drunk and drinking alcoholic beverages.

In the British Commonwealth a car has a boot and bonnet. Wheat to them is corn. (any grain to them is corn)

Live with the reality that English changes with time and location.

Only "according to you" according to God's word,as I recall any accidental deaths are considered just that for it is written"if a man smite another man not of his own accord and intent then he shall flee to a city of refuge for he shall surely be sought by one for blood though he did not seek blood himself".(paraphrasing) nothing has changed many people still flee to places like Mexico if they unintentionally kill someone and God sympathizes,it's not nor has ever been "murder" people of today's time just "prefer it that way" for they heed not "vengeance is mine sayeth the lord" because they'd rather be "satisfied" by their own "choice" there in lies the difference a man who has accidentally killed someone has no choice but to flee if he seek to live where as a man who "seeks him for vengeance" "has a choice" to either "seek blood" or "leave the matter to God" for surely truth will "win out".

 

[Endoscopy]

The ONLY perfect texts of the Bible are the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. All translations have issues. Go read the Tyndale Bible. It was translated in 1526. Have fun. Read Shakespeare. He died a little later than KJV was translated. It is a chore understanding much of the humor in Shakespeare's works. The language, customs, and occupations have drastically changed.

Keep in mind that Spanish, Portuguese, and a couple more languages started out as Latin spoken by the Romans.

 

[Endoscopy]

Only "according to you" according to God's word,as I recall any accidental deaths are considered just that for it is written"if a man smite another man not of his own accord and intent then he shall flee to a city of refuge for he shall surely be sought by one for blood though he did not seek blood himself".(paraphrasing) nothing has changed many people still flee to places like Mexico if they unintentionally kill someone and God sympathizes,it's not nor has ever been "murder" people of today's time just "prefer it that way" for they heed not "vengeance is mine sayeth the lord" because they'd rather be "satisfied" by their own "choice" there in lies the difference a man who has accidentally killed someone has no choice but to flee if he seek to live where as a man who "seeks him for vengeance" "has a choice" to either "seek blood" or "leave the matter to God" for surely truth will "win out".

But according to the language of the KJV it is murder according to the commandments. Thou shalt not kill!! Modern translations correctly state it as You shall not murder. That is my point how language changes over time. Get your head out of the sand. This is not 1611.

 

[joefizz]

But according to the language of the KJV it is murder according to the commandments. Thou shalt not kill!! Modern translations correctly state it as You shall not murder. That is my point how language changes over time. Get your head out of the sand. This is not 1611.

Yes it is 2018 but my point is that somethings "never change",kill's definition has not changed,just as murder/lieing in wait,has not changed,they are not the same in standard principle,for to kill can be spoken of in war,so when God was saying "thou shalt not kill" he wasn't referring to that there wouldn't be a time that one might have to such as war,to change "kill" to "murder" would make God a murderer which is ridiculous,just as in Ecclesiastes chp.3 how it says there is a time for everything even killing,murder is not the same as kill,in that way for kill can be used for a purpose for God or for a good use such as food or clothing,but murder is nothing more than seeking blood for ultimately "no reason" of approval to God,like in your hypothetical "accident".
According to your hypothetical outlook the person who lived,is accounted with the death no matter if he or she was innocent,so meaning that said person is to be judged accordingly to "what people prefer" rather than what "God sees as right" just as with a man on a battle field should a man in such a situation be condemned for "killing" his opposition not in hatred but because there inevitably was no way around said kill?
That's what I mean when you decide in your mind of changing "one word" in the bible then you "mess up" learning the rest of it,there's quite a difference between killing out of no other alternative,murder,and inadvertently killing someone without intent.

 

[joefizz]

The ONLY perfect texts of the Bible are the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. All translations have issues. Go read the Tyndale Bible. It was translated in 1526. Have fun. Read Shakespeare. He died a little later than KJV was translated. It is a chore understanding much of the humor in Shakespeare's works. The language, customs, and occupations have drastically changed.

Keep in mind that Spanish, Portuguese, and a couple more languages started out as Latin spoken by the Romans.

Shakespeare has been dead to me ever since people have been misquoting the bible thanks to him,saying "spare the rod spoil the child" instead of the "proper" scripture "spare the rod hateth thy son".

 

[VCO]

It is true that JUSTIFICATION is by GRACE through FAITH and I believe that because I have FAITH ÌN GOD and in His only begotten son Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

By God’s GRACE & MERCY we were saved through FAITH (eph 2:8-9, titus 3:5) but FAITH without works is DEAD and a DEAD FAITH cannot save. (james 2:14-26)

Anyone who has LIFE stays in the LIGHT.

. . .

BUT, NO WAY is the works of righteousness, considered as PART of Salvation, EVEN James understood that. It is PROOF that the Holy Spirit is at work in our lives, NOT AN ADDITION TO SALVATION.


Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.


NOTICE that HE SAVED US is in the past tense.


John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] The Father and I are one.”

 

[Endoscopy]

Yes it is 2018 but my point is that somethings "never change",kill's definition has not changed,just as murder/lieing in wait,has not changed,they are not the same in standard principle,for to kill can be spoken of in war,so when God was saying "thou shalt not kill" he wasn't referring to that there wouldn't be a time that one might have to such as war,to change "kill" to "murder" would make God a murderer which is ridiculous,just as in Ecclesiastes chp.3 how it says there is a time for everything even killing,murder is not the same as kill,in that way for kill can be used for a purpose for God or for a good use such as food or clothing,but murder is nothing more than seeking blood for ultimately "no reason" of approval to God,like in your hypothetical "accident".
According to your hypothetical outlook the person who lived,is accounted with the death no matter if he or she was innocent,so meaning that said person is to be judged accordingly to "what people prefer" rather than what "God sees as right" just as with a man on a battle field should a man in such a situation be condemned for "killing" his opposition not in hatred but because there inevitably was no way around said kill?
That's what I mean when you decide in your mind of changing "one word" in the bible then you "mess up" learning the rest of it,there's quite a difference between killing out of no other alternative,murder,and inadvertently killing someone without intent.

You ignore that the KJV commandment says, "Thou shalt not kill" .
Modern translations say "Thou shall not murder".

Why the difference if the meaning of the word hasn't changed. Are you saying you violate the commandment if you accidentally kill a person? Thus committing one of the big 10. Are you saying kill and murder are synonymous? How often do you use thee and thou. To make a point I many times start a sentence with "Methinks". How often do you hear that in conversation. Shakespeare used it a lot.

Live in reality of languages change over time. Otherwise Italy would be speaking Latin. Italian is one of several Romance languages meaning descended from Latin.

 

[Endoscopy]

Shakespeare has been dead to me ever since people have been misquoting the bible thanks to him,saying "spare the rod spoil the child" instead of the "proper" scripture "spare the rod hateth thy son".

Why the red herring attack. It has nothing to do with the changing of languages.

 

[joefizz]

Why the red herring attack. It has nothing to do with the changing of languages.

Red herring is in a pup named scooby doo,stay on subject please lol!

 

[lightbearer]

Thanks be to God which saves, seals, justifies and sanctifies eternally in Christ by faith......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

He that believes on the Son IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE.....

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but according to His mercy has HE SAVED US!

NO WORKS REQUIRED TO OBTAIN SALVATION BY FAITH!

Faith is something that is obeyed.
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

 

[Ralph-]

I have no issues of saying obedience and works should follow a genuine faith born of the Holy Spirit.

This focus can cause and does cause others to focus obedience and works to the determent of focusing on the author and pefector of our faith.

Only if you let it put the focus on self instead of God.

If we see ourselves in the mirror of Galatians 5:19-21 and we turn to self to try to fix that, that is on us. That's our fault. But if we turn to God and say, "have mercy on me, a sinner"-Luke 18:13, then we are doing right.

I don't believe that we should remove the truth about obedience and salvation just because there are those who are going to take it wrong and look to self to try to be obedient instead of to God.

 

[Ralph-]

NOTICE that HE SAVED US is in the past tense.

We'll know if that really happened by if you are growing up into works of obedience. That makes works of obedience required when Jesus comes back. If you're not producing works of obedience then you're not really saved. That's what is being ignored here thinking that can only be a works gospel.

You have to have works of the Spirit and not be living in your old life when Jesus comes back or you did not really get saved as you think you did. And if you did really get saved, then this message about obedience will stir you up to righteous indignation to clear yourself and you will be determined to produce the obedience of faith.

 

[Ralph-]

When Jesus returns I will bow my knee to worship Him. But Ralph will say; Lord Lord, look and see, have I not done many works in your name

Haven't you read the scriptures? I don't have to say it. Christ will say it for me,


34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ Matthew 25:34-40


He's going to say the same thing about you, right? That's what you have to be sure of, now, in this age. Your faith that is 'alone' will not solicit the King's praise when he comes back, it will solicit his condemnation. Let's read,


41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”Matthew 25:41-46


Stop sitting around thinking your faith is the only work that is required to be saved when Jesus comes back. Don't be deceived. The faith that is alone when Jesus comes back can not save you. The faith that is alone shows that you do not have the faith that secures salvation apart from works.

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18

 

[AbigailZeke]

Yep. Begin the climb now. It's a long way to the top.

Haven't you read the scriptures? I don't have to say it. Christ will say it for me,


34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ Matthew 25:34-40


He's going to say the same thing about you, right? That's what you have to be sure of, now, in this age. Your faith that is 'alone' will not solicit the King's praise when he comes back, it will solicit his condemnation. Let's read,


41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”Matthew 25:41-46


Stop sitting around thinking your faith is the only work that is required to be saved when Jesus comes back. Don't be deceived. The faith that is alone when Jesus comes back can not save you. The faith that is alone shows that you do not have the faith that secures salvation apart from works.

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18