Not By Works

[Ralph-]

Hello and good morning, Joseph. Unfortunately, there are those who repeatedly lie and misrepresent, even changing the words of Scripture. Becoming conformed to the image of Christ that we may give glory to God is sometimes called the process of sanctification, and is ongoing throughout our life, after being justified by faith.

Key: 'ongoing'. The person who has decided that grace is given so he can live in his sin and doesn't have to change is showing they are not justified and set apart in Christ at all.

Everyone who claims that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works is saying grace makes it so you do not have to change but you will still be saved. They don't know that grace was given to you TO change. And that's why change of life is the evidence of whether or not you have the grace of God in salvation or not. They think grace makes it so you can arrive at the judgement with no works, no change of life and you will still be saved, just as long as you believe.

 

[Limey410v2]

That's right God does not need proof of your faith. YOU DO. So you can know that you are really saved and prepared for when Jesus comes back. This is called 'making your calling and election sure'-2 Peter 1:10, Hebrews 6:11. We are told to do that-obey so we can know we're really saved-so we can be assured that we have the faith that rescues us from the coming wrath and will go into the kingdom, not into the furnace when Christ returns. - ralph


Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

concerning calling and election:

2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the full knowledge of the one who called us by his own glory and excellence.

2 Peter 1:4 Through these he has given us his precious and wonderful promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, seeing that you have escaped the corruption that is in the world caused by evil desires.

We have all we need in Holy Spirit, but to obtain to benefit? We believe His promises. In other words, we learn to walk by the Word which is Spirit and life.

Now, we are told what graces available..


5 For this very reason, you must make every effort to supplement your faith with moral character, your moral character with knowledge,


2Pe 1:6 your knowledge with self-control, your self-control with endurance, your endurance with godliness,


2Pe 1:7 your godliness with brotherly kindness, and your brotherly kindness with love.


2Pe 1:8 For if you possess these qualities, and if they continue to increase among you, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in attaining a full knowledge of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah.


2Pe 1:9 For the person who lacks these qualities is blind and shortsighted, and has forgotten the cleansing that he has received from his past sins.


2Pe 1:10 So then, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election certain, for if you keep on doing this you will never fail.

growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord.

2Pe 1:11 For in this way you will be generously granted entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Messiah.

generously granted entry. This has to do with how one will be received. Not whether one is rejected or not.

Its always best to look at the whole of the picture. Not throw unrelated scriptures all together.

Amen!!. God has defined for us the course. When you apply it in the proper context you get clarity. When you mash it up and place the cart before the horse you get confusion.

 

[Limey410v2]

No, I understand what you people have been saying and I'm sure I've been representing it correctly. You want to keep the eternal security part of Calvinism but discard the part about the life that proves you have it. That is what you people have been saying. That's not Calvinism. That's the new doctrine of eternal security consuming the church to it's destruction. The final destruction of the church from which we will not recover. Either admit you have departed from classical Calvinist teaching and embraced this new abhorrent eternal security teaching or come back to your Calvinist roots.

What I don't get is why ardent Calvinists, even partial Calvinists aren't defending their doctrinal beliefs. Mailmandan may be the only one who has been. And he's not even a preacher.

You are creating a diversion to hide behind. You are drifting so far off the core debate, it's laughable. If you are indeed a preacher, I wonder if your flock also sit and wonder what your message is really about.

 

[Magenta]

You are creating a diversion to hide behind. You are drifting so far off the core debate, it's laughable. If you are indeed a preacher, I wonder if your flock also sit and wonder what your message is really about.

From what I can see of what you quoted, the message seems to be about Calvin [SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]

 

[Ralph-]

From what I can see of what you quoted, the message seems to be about Calvin

Your way of letting me know I'm on ignore. It's okay. I'm just saying what Jesus and the Apostles said and being punished for it.

“Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man. 23“Be glad in that day and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven.-Luke 6:22

 

[Ralph-]

You are creating a diversion to hide behind. You are drifting so far off the core debate, it's laughable. If you are indeed a preacher, I wonder if your flock also sit and wonder what your message is really about.

No, Limey, I'm dead on topic. It is being argued that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works. I'm pointing out that the Bible says if you do not have works you are not really saved. You will be rejected when Jesus comes back.

 

[Budman]

Please pardon my edit, I am just popping in to say hello, long time no
see, so happy to have you back again, and happy new year, Budman!

Thank-you! I decided to take a little break - which turned into a loooong break!

I'm glad to be back, and happy new year to you as well!

 

[star]

If one accepts Christ according to the biblical process, one is indeed saved; whether now or when Jesus Christ returns. Works has nothing to the with this free gift God has given to mankind.

Twisting scripture to say one has to have works whenever Christ returns or else they will be rejected, is adding to the Word of God and that addition will be rejected.

As for works, people saved will produce works as they mature in Christ and as it is revealed to one the work God has prepared or is preparing them to do. God has a plan for each of us and as we yield to Him and mature in Him, we will do that work.

The only ones rejected will the the unbelievers. Anything else being taught is against the Word of God.

 

[star]

You are creating a diversion to hide behind. You are drifting so far off the core debate, it's laughable. If you are indeed a preacher, I wonder if your flock also sit and wonder what your message is really about.

I agree with you on this subject. He is creating division but it will only work for those who believes as he does.

 

[Budman]

I think it's rather simple: Grace is unmerited, and salvation is a gift. To work for either negates them both.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Key: 'ongoing'. The person who has decided that grace is given so he can live in his sin and doesn't have to change is showing they are not justified and set apart in Christ at all.

Everyone who claims that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works is saying grace makes it so you do not have to change but you will still be saved. They don't know that grace was given to you TO change. And that's why change of life is the evidence of whether or not you have the grace of God in salvation or not. They think grace makes it so you can arrive at the judgement with no works, no change of life and you will still be saved, just as long as you believe.

Ralph please!
There is a difference between sin and works.
You are making it sound as if you think NOT having works IS sin.

 

[Limey410v2]

No, Limey, I'm dead on topic. It is being argued that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works. I'm pointing out that the Bible says if you do not have works you are not really saved. You will be rejected when Jesus comes back.

Just like the the thief on the cross was rejected by Jesus eh? That poor idiot didn't know what he was getting into with his confession of faith.

 

[Ralph-]

Just like the the thief on the cross was rejected by Jesus eh? That poor idiot didn't know what he was getting into with his confession of faith.

He did not deny Jesus. The other thief did.

 

[TruthTalk]

Well who says this?
I have yet to find "anyone" who claims that "you don't have to do anything for God/Jesus once saved" I've even talked to false doctrine people yet even they don't say such a thing,can you "validate" such a claim?

You are correct Joseph, Christians are saved, "unto good works", prepared by God in advance, we are not saved by nor are we kept saved by our good works, simple Sunday School lesson. Saved, "unto good works", not saved, "by good works." Any one who say's Christians don't have good works does not understand the bible.

8) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God
9) "not by works", so that no one can boast.
10) For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus, "to do good works",
which God "prepared in advance" for us to do. Ephesians2:8-10

 

[Limey410v2]

If one accepts Christ according to the biblical process, one is indeed saved; whether now or when Jesus Christ returns. Works has nothing to the with this free gift God has given to mankind.

Twisting scripture to say one has to have works whenever Christ returns or else they will be rejected, is adding to the Word of God and that addition will be rejected.

As for works, people saved will produce works as they mature in Christ and as it is revealed to one the work God has prepared or is preparing them to do. God has a plan for each of us and as we yield to Him and mature in Him, we will do that work.

The only ones rejected will the the unbelievers. Anything else being taught is against the Word of God.

Yes...and Amen.

 

[Ralph-]

Ralph please!
There is a difference between sin and works.
You are making it sound as if you think NOT having works IS sin.

Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin. James 4:17

 

[Budman]

No, Limey, I'm dead on topic. It is being argued that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works. I'm pointing out that the Bible says if you do not have works you are not really saved. You will be rejected when Jesus comes back.

How many works? What's the cut-off?

Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin. James 4:17

All sins have been placed under the blood.

 

[Limey410v2]

He did not deny Jesus. The other thief did.

Exactly, then he died both arms and legs nailed to a cross, unable to do any works to obtain his salvation.

 

[Ralph-]

You are correct Joseph, Christians are saved, "unto good works", prepared by God in advance, we are not saved by nor are we kept saved by our good works, simple Sunday School lesson. Saved, "unto good works", not saved, "by good works." Any one who say's Christians don't have good works does not understand the bible.


8) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God
9) "not by works", so that no one can boast.
10) For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus, "to do good works",
which God "prepared in advance" for us to do. Ephesians2:8-10

Everybody in the church knows this.

The problem is some will turn right around and say you do not have to obey to be saved when Christ comes back. They reject Jesus' teaching that says the person who is lawless does not know Him and will be rejected when He comes. It's a horrible contradiction of beliefs.

Prepared in advance to do good works, but if you don't do them all is good because salvation is not by works and Jesus still knows you anyway despite having no works. That is what is being taught in the church today.

 

[star]

How many works? What's the cut-off?



All sins have been placed under the blood.

The OT showed us we could never do enough works, shed enough animal sacrifices, stay true to enough laws. Thus, our free gift from God, Jesus Christ Our Lord.