Not By Works

[blue_ladybug]

Then what other ways do you think He was tempted in? He WAS human, after all. He felt human emotions: sadness, joy, anger.. We know that He was tempted to commit suicide, by the devil. That if He jumped, an angel would catch Him. And on the cross, He felt every emotion possible, every pain, every situation that we find ourselves in. He felt it ALL.

It is a very sad and huge stretch to read Hebrews and take it mean that He was tempted in all ways that people are tempted.

This interpretation then goes to disgusting depth of twisting Christ's unblemished mind into the most disgusting mind that has ever been.

It means Jesus must have been tempted toward rape, torture and even murder, just like any number of Christians might have experienced temptations in their carnal life.

Paul states "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing" and "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit..."

Lust comes from sin, which produces lust, from within us, from within the flesh.


Jesus did not have the sin nature nor a carnal mind to generate lust.

 

[Zi]

She already said she didn't use the right words.. my gosh magenta are you setting up a trial?

 

[Magenta]

Is there a point to all your posts?

Post what the Bible says Incase onlookers don't know, if you're really that stuck on it.. you're adding to what people said that is not the same as what they said. You're being ridiculous..

I have posted Scriptures. You're being ridiculous to imply I have not. And you are lying. I have said exactly what was said, or rephrased it to fit the present tense without changing the meaning one whit. Jesus was accused of sinning. Maybe you are okay with that?

 

[dcontroversal]

It is a very sad and huge stretch to read Hebrews and take it mean that He was tempted in all ways that people are tempted.

This interpretation then goes to disgusting depth of twisting Christ's unblemished mind into the most disgusting mind that has ever been.

It means Jesus must have been tempted toward rape, torture and even murder, just like any number of Christians might have experienced temptations in their carnal life.

Paul states "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing" and "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit..."

Lust comes from sin, which produces lust, from within us, from within the flesh.


Jesus did not have the sin nature nor a carnal mind to generate lust.

No offence but lust does not come from sin....I have posted this three times now and almost everyone is ignoring it....My bible states clearly that WHEN LUST HAS CONCEIVED IT BRINGS FOR SIN......this is a clear distinction.......LUST MUST CONCEIVE TO BRING FORTH SIN!

 

[UnderGrace]

I am not offended. I like discussing that is why I visit on occasion. Okay let me prepare my rebuttal.
I want to look at the whole picture.

No offence but lust does not come from sin....I have posted this three times now and almost everyone is ignoring it....My bible states clearly that WHEN LUST HAS CONCEIVED IT BRINGS FOR SIN......this is a clear distinction.......LUST MUST CONCEIVE TO BRING FORTH SIN!

 

[dcontroversal]

And just for the record......Jesus never sinned......and like I said....HE WAS TEMPTED in ALL POINTS AS WE ARE TEMPTED yet without sin!

 

[UnderGrace]

Do you think he was tempted to murder or rape?

And just for the record......Jesus never sinned......and like I said....HE WAS TEMPTED in ALL POINTS AS WE ARE TEMPTED uet without sin!

 

[blue_ladybug]

Magenta, saying "probably" DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE DID...What part of that are you not understanding? It's obvious that one way or another, He did know what all those emotions felt like.

I have said what you said, yet you keep trying to correct me as if I have misrepresented you when I have not. You said He probably did feel lust. You said other things too, yep, all of which amounted to you believe Jesus sinned so that He could understand our sin. Those were your thoughts, you would bet He did those things. You even flat out stated that Jesus sinned by being angry.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, since He was fully human, with human emotions and thoughts,
He probably did feel lust. He just didn't act on it...

True, He was sinless.

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BUT He got angry, called people names, etc etc.. And in the end, He WAS sin personified. Every thought, every emotion, everything evil was upon Him. We already know that anger is a sin, but since Jesus got angry, He did in fact have that sin. I'm sure He repented right afterward though. ​

Y'all only want to see the sinless, perfect side of Jesus. You don't like having to acknowledge that He had the same desires, thoughts and emotions like the rest of us humans. Difference is, HE DID NOT act upon those desires. WE DO...​

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When I pointed out to Blue that she was contradicting herself, she denied it. So, Zi, I am not sure what you are trying to prove besides the fact that you are wrong.
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[blue_ladybug]

That's been my point all along. That by Him being tempted in all things, is how He knows how we feel when we are tempted..

And just for the record......Jesus never sinned......and like I said....HE WAS TEMPTED in ALL POINTS AS WE ARE TEMPTED yet without sin!

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you think he was tempted to murder or rape?

I will answer with a question....and a statement.....John said that all that is in the world is the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life....note the following...

lust of the flesh-->command this stone be made into bread <--Jesus was starving after 40 days without food

pride of life <--If you are who you say you are then cast yourself off the pinnacle of the temple for it is written...

lust of the eyes <---The devil showeth him the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time

Can one be tempted to sin without the above?

Lust MUST CONCEIVE TO BRING FORTH SIN....IS Lust in and of itself sin?

Apples and oranges....I do not believe being tempted to murder or rape were found on the mind of Jesus....but the above bears true....SATAN TEMPTED HIM DIA THE LUST OF THE EYES, LUST OF THE FLESH and PrIde of LIFE YET IT DID NOT CONCEIVE AND HE DID NOT SIN.....that is my view

 

[TruthTalk]

Biblical definition of Temptation:

Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Temptation
Trial; a being put to the test. Thus God "tempted [ Genesis 22: : 1; RSV, 'did prove'] Abraham;" and afflictions are said to tempt, i.e., to try, men ( James 1:2 James 1:12 ; Compare Deuteronomy 8:2 ), putting their faith and patience to the test.
Ordinarily, however, the word means solicitation to that which is evil, and hence Satan is called "the tempter" ( Matthew 4:3)

Temptation is common to all​:( Daniel 12:10 ; Zechariah 13:9 ; Psalms 66:10 ; Luke 22:31 Luke 22:40 ; Hebrews 11:17 ; James 1:12 ; 1 Peter 1:7 ; 4:12 ). We read of the temptation of Joseph ( Genesis 39 ), of David ( 2 Samuel 24 ; 1 Chronicles 21 ), of Hezekiah ( 2 Chronicles 32:31 ), of Daniel ( Daniel 6 ), etc. So long as we are in this world we are exposed to temptations, and need ever to be on our watch against them.

 

[Magenta]

Magenta, saying "probably" DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE DID...What part of that are you not understanding? It's obvious that one way or another, He did know what all those emotions felt like.

I never said it meant that Blue. You are in denial. You said those were your thoughts, that Jesus had sin since He was angry, even though I pointed out that being angry is not a sin. You said that He probably lusted, you'd bet on the fact that He envied the prisoner who was set free etc. Why try to deny it is what you believed? What part of this are YOU not understanding???

 

[blue_ladybug]

M, once again saying "probably" does not mean that He actually did.. But I know if I were Him, getting beaten and whipped, I'd sure envy the prisoner set free in my place. People are forgetting that HE had human emotions, feelings and thoughts also.

When I pointed out to Blue that she was contradicting herself, she denied it. So, Zi, I am not sure what you are trying to prove besides the fact that you are wrong.
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[dcontroversal]

I think at the end of the day we can all conclude the following....

a. Jesus was tempted
b. Jesus did not sin

 

[dcontroversal]

Ladies..........Do I need to cut a switch hahahahhahahha

 

[preacher4truth]

I will answer with a question....and a statement.....John said that all that is in the world is the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life....note the following...

lust of the flesh-->command this stone be made into bread <--Jesus was starving after 40 days without food

pride of life <--If you are who you say you are then cast yourself off the pinnacle of the temple for it is written...

lust of the eyes <---The devil showeth him the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time

Can one be tempted to sin without the above?

Lust MUST CONCEIVE TO BRING FORTH SIN....IS Lust in and of itself sin?

Apples and oranges....I do not believe tempted to murder or rape were found on the mind of Jesus....but the above bears true....SATAN TEMPTED HIM DIA THE LUST OF THE EYES, LUST OF THE FLESH and PrIde if LIFE YET IT DID NOT CONCEIVE AND HE DID NOT SIN.....that is my view

Yes, that is how he was tempted in all points like us. It doesn't mean (Hebrews 4:15) that he was tempted with sodomy, envy, murder, committing suicide et al. Also, there was nothing in him to draw him away into temptation, it is not as if he had a sin nature and had to struggle against the flesh wanting to do something sinful when tested.

 

[Studyman]

If we seek good works for salvation they are filthy rags. Until we receive by faith our works are not good works because they are done with an agenda to finish by the flesh what the Spirit started. It says Christ wasn’t enough. And without Christ there is no sacrifice left for sin. All things have been given to lead us unto Christ. And He is being made Lord over our heart in the deepest sense daily. In this, life works out for our good and for the purpose of God. To conform us into the image of Christ. Until we can know truly it is not I who live, but Christ in me. The hope of glory.

Consider it like this: Christ IS saved. He is alive. He is free. He IS Life.

We die to self-life and live to His life. We died to ourselves and were remade in Him. This is our union with God. We are His Body.

This is foolishness to those who are perishing. Because spiritual things are spiritually taught by the Spirit of God.

Not to argue over this again. But to Love the Lord with all our hearts is a work. And remembering to Keep God's Sabbaths is a Work as well. They are both works Commanded for us to walk in by Jesus before becoming a man. These are two of the Laws God promised to write on our hearts.

It's not our Work in that God/Jesus is the one who Commanded it. It is not a filthy rag as it is not a work created by man, but by God.

When Jesus kept these two "Works", or when Paul kept these two Works, did they make them "filthy Rags" just because they were human?

I understand the argument. One might say of himself, "I love God of Abraham with all my heart", or "I honor God with obedience to His 4th Commandment", and some could construe this as "boasting of our works". But wouldn't it be boasting of God's Work and not ours? Wouldn't our works be "I feed random poor people"? or "Look at the huge building we created in Jesus Name?

We all have works, every last one of us. Wouldn't the question be: Whose works are they, God's or mans?

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Food for thought.

 

[DJ2]

This is ignorant....the entire truth is based upon context and to say what you said proves a few things about your theology....mainly you have no interest in it, but rather an interest in your own opinion that is contrary

No one is debating that context is important, just that using context as a cover to twist the obvious meaning of such a simple verse as James 2:24 is a desperate ploy.

There is nothing in the context of the verse to suggest anything other then faith not being the sole issue on the subject of salvation. Nothing.

 

[Magenta]

And just for the record......Jesus never sinned......and like I said....HE WAS TEMPTED in ALL POINTS AS WE ARE TEMPTED yet without sin!

Blue said Jesus was guilty of sin.

True, He was sinless.

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BUT He got angry, called people names, etc etc.. And in the end, He WAS sin personified. Every thought, every emotion, everything evil was upon Him. We already know that anger is a sin, but since Jesus got angry, He did in fact have that sin. I'm sure He repented right afterward though. ​

Y'all only want to see the sinless, perfect side of Jesus. You don't like having to acknowledge that He had the same desires, thoughts and emotions like the rest of us humans. Difference is, HE DID NOT act upon those desires. WE DO...​

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