Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 12, 2017
203
4
0
Well only she can clarify, but if a statement is made that contradicts the very character of Christ Jesus it should be questioned.



I have reread the thread it was not personal, it was on a particular topic of discussion upon which we had differing views.

If Blue feels that the discussion was personal to her I would be more than willing to apologize that was not my intent at all.
I agree that that specific quote is not biblical. But I have read enough of ladyblues responses that it needs clarification based upon what I have read from her previously. Bad wording IMO. Because it doesn't line up with the other posts I have read from Her.


Interesting thought though. Truth of Gods freegrace was being discussed in this thread. So distract it and pounce on anyone. Especially someone who you think is 'inferior' to your intellect.

And it was NOT you Sister.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I see what you are saying. I try to visit CC sparingly because it is so easy to get caught up in a discussion and not really realize what is being said or how your own words are coming across.

I agree now reflecting back more grace was in order the pace may have also been overwhelming for Blue. :(

On another note....knowing the freedom of grace salvation, the true narrow path...Amen music to my ears.... makes my heart sing.

Sad people refute what they do not understand and refuse to understand.


I agree that that specific quote is not biblical. But I have read enough of ladyblues responses that it needs clarification based upon what I have read from her previously. Bad wording IMO. Because it doesn't line up with the other posts I have read from Her.


Interesting thought though. Truth of Gods freegrace was being discussed in this thread. So distract it and pounce on anyone. Especially someone who you think is 'inferior' to your intellect.

And it was NOT you Sister.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,788
13,546
113
Lol @ blue waking up in the morning and seeing that we went on talking about her for pages and pages...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,935
29,302
113
I’ll consider and pray about my thoughts on the emotion of envy being a sin.

But I do believe it is comparable to anger. Jesus said if we are angry in our heart we commit murder. Paul has a few different works of the flesh from anger. Fits of rage and wrath come to mind. But I’ll chew on it more. :)
Take a look at the tenth commandment :)

Everyone defending that Jesus probably did feel lust blows my mind :eek:

Lust is a sin. If you really have to chew on whether or not Jesus sinned, there is a problem.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,935
29,302
113
PS: I am not saying that everyone has defended the idea that Jesus lusted. I feel I have to clarify that my statement was clearly aimed at everyone who has thus far defended the idea, because I know how easily people fail to comprehend even simple things, reading into what was not there and focusing on that instead of what was actually said. Sad, but true.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113

since "
it is God who works in you both to will and to do"
what you're telling us, Ralph, is that Jesus better work harder or we're in trouble.



i believe He's faithful to complete what He began! how about you? :)
Amen....and he saves eternally by faith.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Did all this when studying for my accountancy exams. Passed this particular module (got no issue idea how) but never had to use it.

I actually failed math at school.

My son is doing advanced math degree with computing science at uni.

When I looked at some of the equations he shows me it blows my mind.
I am the exact opposite...did grade 12 algebra at 7 and after retiring from being a machinist I have done very little math......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Jesus lost his cool.. He called people names. He brandished a whip and may even have tried to use it on the money changer's in the temple.. Which begs the question, since Jesus WAS fully human and lost His temper on many occasions, was HE God's enemy? No, He wasn't..

EVERY ONE loses their temper from time to time. You do, I do, so does Dcon and everyone else here. If we become God's enemy just because we lose our temper and swear, then we are all doomed.. Good thing we're saved and have His forgiveness. :)

Simple words coming from a simple mind.. lol
And I was not even mad...another judgmental mouth is all......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Okay let me ask you this since again I disagree and I am tired of talking about BS (LOL) ....did Jesus lust too even though he never acted on it?
Is lust sin? Lust fully burn out is sin....Jesus was tempted in all points as we are tempted yet without sin....Imagine 40 days without food and the thought of a fresh hot baked loaf of bread........just saying
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Not by works

We are saved because Jesus chose us and we follow.
If the disciples had not been chosen, no gospel.
If the disciples had not followed, no gospel.
If we are sinners who do nothing, nothing has changed, so we are under judgement.

Most denominations debate which things one needs to believe and which things we need to do,
but they all agree we need to believe certain things and do certain things.

Has all this 2415 pages been because people claim we do nothing?
If so, every believer will always disagree, because Jesus said put into action His words, and actions
require doing, and not putting His words into action is death and destruction. Pretty simple really.

Paul said this
"Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
Gal 6:8

Sowing to me is a pretty active thing. I have never seen a passive sower before,
only a lazy idle good for nothing who is doomed to destruction.
We are saved because we exercised faith into the work of Christ......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Blue didn’t say Jesus sinned. From what I can see she doesn’t see feeling the emotions of envy and lust as sinning.

Heres my thoughts: Scripture says He was tempted in every way but didn’t sin. Which means temptation isn’t sin. One could make the case temptations do include thoughts and emotions. But we choose whether to act in them which Jesus didn’t. Scripture also says be angry and sin not. Which tells us negative emotions by themselves aren’t always considered sin. I understand where you’re coming from Blue and I agree we need to identify with the human side of Jesus more. After all that’s one of the reasons He came as a human. So our high priest would identify with us. And us with Him.
I agree and will add....God's ways are so above our ways....for example....when LUST CONCEIVES IT EQUALS SIN....SO does that make lust in and of itself sin? What about God's use of the word and the SPIRIT LUSTING TO ENVY.....??? For many there is a devil behind every bush...with God it is not so....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Please don't get offended and even say that the ff: verses are out of context because;

Romans 15:1-4 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. Each of us should please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “THE INSULTS OF THOSE WHO INSULT YOU HAVE FALLEN ON ME.” FOR EVERYTHING THAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE PAST WAS WRITTEN TO TEACH US, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

AND I KNOW THAT YOU EVEN APPROVE OF PEOPLE CURSING, INSULTING AND SPEAKING INAPPROPRIATE WORDS ALTHOUGH THEY CLAIM TO BE SAVED BELIEVERS AND THAT THOSE CALLING THEM FOUL ARE HYPOCRITES.

SO I'LL BE BOLD TO SAY THAT THE FF: ARE PERFECTLY REFERRING TO YOU AND YOUR FOLLOWERS.

Jude 1:12-16 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Romans 1:28-32 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

BUT DON'T THINK THAT I AM JUDGING YOU BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN,

John 12:47-50 “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

THEREFORE:

Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

New International Version 1984 Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

New International Version 1984 Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance BY THEIR DEEDS.
You should rethink your view and then compare what you teach to the three false teachers Jude compates these men to....first on the list...one who pushed works
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,935
29,302
113
I agree and will add....God's ways are so above our ways....for example....when LUST CONCEIVES IT EQUALS SIN....SO does that make lust in and of itself sin? What about God's use of the word and the SPIRIT LUSTING TO ENVY.....??? For many there is a devil behind every bush...with God it is not so....
Jesus said, "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Jesus equates lust with adultery; hopefully nobody is going to argue about adultery being sin? Oh, wait, they already have :p

It was James who said.
"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
You should rethink your view and then compare what you teach to the three false teachers Jude compates these men to....first on the list...one who pushed works
IF YOU CAN SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THAT WORKS ALONE SAVES THEN I WOULD BE GLAD TO ADMIT YOUR FALSE WITNESSING AND IF I PUSH FOR WORKS BECAUSE I PROMOTE OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S LAWS AND COMMANDS, DO YOU ALSO CALL THE LORD JESUS A WORKS SALVATIONIST?

IF YOU LOVE GOD YOU WILL OBEY HIS COMMANDS AND I HOPE YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT LOVE FOR GOD IS.

STOP REJECTING THE TRUTH AND STOP BEING SELF CENTERED IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN THE LOVE OF JESUS.

SALVATION IS NOT ABOUT OUR OWNSELVES OR SELFISHNESS BUT IT IS RATHER SELFLESS.

New International Version 1984 Philippians 2:3-11 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,788
13,546
113
Take a look at the tenth commandment :)

Everyone defending that Jesus probably did feel lust blows my mind :eek:

Lust is a sin. If you really have to chew on whether or not Jesus sinned, there is a problem.
amen, no sin was found in Him

i agree; i don't think "
feel lust" is the right description of how He is able to empathize - but He knows intimately the temptation of it. not knowing the right way to express how He was tested in that way is a semantics problem, & semantics problems can arise both when we don't know ((or sometimes even have)) adequate vocabulary and when we haven't thought through all of the implications of what we're trying to relate.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,788
13,546
113
Jesus said, "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Jesus equates lust with adultery; hopefully nobody is going to argue about adultery being sin? Oh, wait, they already have :p

It was James who said.
"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
it's the looking on, to lust
& He was not drawn away - did He even have "His own lust?"
without blemish, zeal for the house of the LORD consumed Him
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Amen! and thank you Preacher4truth for pointing out the returnees; (use-to-be's). Nobody likes rejection.

What does "hardsell mean by, "we are not" stirring up conflict, and Ripping the face off hypocrisy and the contradictions? "yes we are", who is "we" that he is referring to? -- very blunt accusatory remarks.



And how does hardsell know so many things about your likes and dislikes, it's as if he is talking to someone he already knows from before, a coincidence, I don't think so.
Sooooo.. Meggido is back and is now "hardsell" and "johnthebaptist" is none other than Peterjens.