Not By Works

[star]

We are not stirring up conflict in your club in country club thread, we are calling out on the leaders of the thread to be the accountable men of God they say they are. It just so happens the issue was brought up because the OP slipped up and used BS at the end of a post. He then claims innocence to me, but others defended his use of the actual meaning of the word. So now maybe we should start telling him to stop lying and covering himself up as well as using profanity.


Then another leader of the thread condoned using profanity behind the pulpit and while teaching the bible and admitted it was not a true sin.

Then the reformed Calvinist crew came and and mocked people for being legalistic and give the ones they agree with a complete pass, only because the doctrine is whats important. Deposit the fact, John MacArthur and the Late RC Sproul would throw them out of their own churches for condoning what these men say is ok to do.

We are not stirring up conflict! we are calling for leaders on this thread who self profess themselves to be Pastor-teachers of the flock to be accountable. Proven fact if you condone one kind of leaven in the lump, it is infected with other leaven elsewhere.

Not bragging by any means. Ripping the face off hypocrisy and the contradictions? yes we are.

You haven't been here on this site very long yet you already are calling out people. That IMHO is not a good way to start within the community of believers. Believers should be about unity within the community and not about "throwing out."

Hypocrisy runs rampant everywhere.

 

[valiant]

Well, he did. And then he and eternall-gratefull have been insisting he did not.

Works are not needed in order to be saved. They are the proof of salvation.,

You are right that works are not needed to be justified. What you are wrong about is you can not be justified and then not have the life to show it. If that's happening you were not really justified.

True

 

[hardsell]

Sadly, This is what Legalism does to a person, it makes them weak and unable to have any strength, they can go out into the world Like Jesus said, But they go out more like a pharisee than Christ himself. They have to go out judging, They go out as hypocrites, who like pharisees, may have knowledge and know a lot of bible. May appear to be morally upright (you can not see their sins, because they like the pharisee make sure people see their good works, and sin in private, or ignore the fact they even have any sin,

it is why many do not want to come to God, Not so much because they have to admit they need to change their life, but because they want nothing to do with the arrogant holier than though church.

Comments like this are made because it is difficult for some people to articulate the difference between church people and leaders that display true Biblical transparency and display true spiritual maturity as the author of Hebrews exhorted them to.

To someone and others content to live spiritually as they are, these comments sound like gospel, but in reality they fit the context of:

James 3:13-16 and Ecc 4:4-6

 

[hardsell]

You haven't been here on this site very long yet you already are calling out people. That IMHO is not a good way to start within the community of believers. Believers should be about unity within the community and not about "throwing out."

Hypocrisy runs rampant everywhere.

Oh, so time on the chat board determines who is the big man and what they can do.

 

[preacher4truth]

We are not stirring up conflict in your club in country club thread, we are calling out on the leaders of the thread to be the accountable men of God they say they are. It just so happens the issue was brought up because the OP slipped up and used BS at the end of a post. He then claims innocence to me, but others defended his use of the actual meaning of the word. So now maybe we should start telling him to stop lying and covering himself up as well as using profanity.


Then another leader of the thread condoned using profanity behind the pulpit and while teaching the bible and admitted it was not a true sin.

Then the reformed Calvinist crew came and and mocked people for being legalistic and give the ones they agree with a complete pass, only because the doctrine is whats important. Deposit the fact, John MacArthur and the Late RC Sproul would throw them out of their own churches for condoning what these men say is ok to do.

We are not stirring up conflict! we are calling for leaders on this thread who self profess themselves to be Pastor-teachers of the flock to be accountable. Proven fact if you condone one kind of leaven in the lump, it is infected with other leaven elsewhere.

Not bragging by any means. Ripping the face off hypocrisy and the contradictions? yes we are.

Not that the above is exactly true, but you've left only you standing. Everyone else has been condemned and shot to death.

Congrats!

 

[TruthTalk]

Sorry , you cannot use Phil 3:8 as your defense here because the context is not correct.

Did actually Paul ever tell Peter any other person he disagreed with he was full of poo? yeah thought not.

DO you believe our our church leaders, teachers, preachers and elders can have one foot in darkness and one in the kingdom? If you give this a pass and think it is perfectly fine to have language like this from the pulpit, whats next?

Hiring Pastors that use profanity and then allow them to let:

Youth pastors and and their wives to show kids porn on theirs phones to help them stay pure?
And then justify it to their parents by saying, all kids have sex anyway, we just used porn to make a point!


The Young Adult singles Pastors wife to show her cleavage and legs and give the young single Adult women conferences on being sexy and showing their stuff to attract a Godly man?

Let pot be smoked on church property while the "tokers" work out their passive sanctification to stop their addictions.
Then have to ignore the couple snorting cocaine in the church restroom, because they give a lot of money, I mean a lot of money to the church.

Letting Adam and Steve to be on the platform and lead worship, because they are just so good at it, despite the fact they are engaging in homosexual sex? And the other worship team members are committing adultery and fornicating with each other.


Where does it stop? Where does the Bible teach us that our church leaders, teachers, preachers and elders have to lower themselves by acting like the world to be relevant enough to reach the world. Where does the Bible teach us that our church leaders, teachers, preachers and elders are to keep people in bondage to their sin, because there is no victory until then and not now and your just a work in progress like me? Where does it say that our church leaders, teachers, preachers and elders not show their people they can overcome their issues and be everything God says they are and called them to be?

The Bible says unequivocally that our our church leaders, teachers, preachers and elders should be called, validated, approved by God and then consecrated and separated from the flock.


You and the rest your tribe here think people in the world appreciate you being so"uber cool" and able to relate with them. They really don't, not the ones looking for the God that saves and gives them power to overcome and become who God wants them to be.

The only ones that relate to church leaders, teachers, preachers and elders that condone leaven in the lump are usually spiritual babes that have spiritual babies as leaders. I do not fault the people, I fault the leadership of the people. If you have a babe in Christ trying to learn how to manifest love and self control enough to not us profanity from the pulpit, he is not being transparent,relative, and an adorable work in progress like his sheep. He is also a babe attempting lead babes and is compared to a new convert, which Paul says should not be allowed to teach, be an elder or deacon {See 1 Tim 3} This type of church grows but only in terms of people and not spiritual maturity.

Eventually, a lot of people will get revelation about who they are and that they do not need to be of the world to reach the world. They will see that their leadership are not really being uber cool, relative or an adorable work in progress like they used to be. They begin to see that their leadership are not growing spiritually and either have no desire to, do not know how to or are in deception or spreading deception. They also begin to see that others around them fit the same patterns. The next time the uber grace filled cool cat pastor-teacher throws out an F-bomb to get their attention to make a point, they wake up and leave for better solid food and spiritual growth.

1 Cor 5:6-8

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


I have been called legalistic a lot in the last few years and came to understand it is because I make a stand that our church leaders, teachers, preachers and elders should be called, validated, approved by God and then consecrated and separated from the flock. And if they condone something as small as allowing profanity from the pulpit to make points, they have serious issues in their own lives and that of their churches. They are blinded by a false interpretation of grace, or worse are intentional in the desire to spread deception or are just a babe in Christ for decades, and this makes them think they have grown enough to shepherd.

Moses spent 40 years in the wilderness before he spent 40 years leading others in the wilderness and never used profanity to make a point.

Can anyone say the word, "over reaction", you have disqualified yourself to criticize anyone here by your extreme reactions to a discussion about "one word" in the bible. And we are, "Uber Cool", you seem to have all the correct vernacular and you continue to use the word "POO" in your post. People understand what the word "POO" means, by trying to show how great you are you have become foolish, and a "Legalist at heart", as you claim you are. Take out the log in your eye first.

"hardshell" is a good screen name for you,

 

[Studyman]

This is a great topic and I appreciate the dialogue.

I'm going to try to use quotes like you did. Hopefully this will make my comments easier to follow. I will simply comment on what your replies are this way we can get to the "meat" of the matter quickly.



I think it's important for me to comment already here. First off the Jesus says they searched the Scriptures because they thought in them they could have life. Please notice they were not searching the Scriptures for Him. But Jesus explains to us that HE is eternal life. The Scriptures point to Him. There is no eternal life apart from Him. Which takes us back to the original statement of the Father if you eat of the knowledge of good and evil you'll surely die.



Notice here that Jesus is saying BELIEVING Moses, what was it that they didn't believe? They didn't believe in Jesus. Moses wrote of Him. You're right in saying they didn't believe God, but where they didn't believe God isn't in their law, but in not believing Jesus. Did they reject His word? In a sense sure because they rejected Jesus who the Scriptures are about. But we must remember that the focal point here is not in their obedience to the law because that never saved. It was always faith. Even Paul says this to us here:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

No Jew ever got saved, but through Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Why did He make it obsolete? Because obedience to the first covenant wasn't enough. If it was there wouldn't have been room for a second one.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

I can keep posting Scriptures about this, Joshua pointed to a greater rest, Abraham looked forward to Christ, all the prophets longed to see what we see today. But the point I'm driving at here and I can keep on going is that its all pointing to Christ. The issue wasn't simply that they didn't follow the law properly because Paul said he was faultless before it. It was actually the INWARD sin that wasn't dealt with and that is what Christ deals with in us.



I pretty much agree with you until this point. Yes I do agree that they took God's law to another level. They did it out of fear. Because they didn't want to break any of the laws even in a small way. But let's discuss if the Pharisees were trying to obey God.

Matt 23:23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.24You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.Jesus here is saying look you're neglecting the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. It wasn't that they weren't keeping the letter of the law, but they were missing the spirit of the law.

He tells them look CLEAN the INSIDE not the outside. You're focusing on the outside which is outward observance, but inside you are full of greed and self-indulgence. They were focusing on a gnat, but swallowing a camel.

But let's see what God does in response:

Matt 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!

God once again is focusing on relationship. They killed HIS PROPHETS. Those were the ones who SPEAK for Him. It's important we get this point. They wanted the law. They could follow it and puff themselves up, of course not inwardly which brings us to Romans 7. But they didn't want RELATIONSHIP.

Notice in Matt 23 Jesus discusses that they call those who stoned His prophets their fathers. Why does He do this? Because He's showing them that He's not their Father. Once again we are dealing with relationship. They were not willing to let Him gather them together.



Here's the law:

Leviticus 24:16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

This is exactly what they were quoting. He blasphemied the Lord by calling Himself like God. Except for the fact that He was God. They missed that point because their hearts were hardened to God. Once again they didn't want RELATIONSHIP with God so they turned to the law. This is how we fall from grace.


Exactly they resisted the Holy Ghost, this is the Spirit of God. They were uncircumcised in heart. They didn't want relationship so they killed the one's He sent. Yes they didn't keep it inwardly. And they probably didn't 100% keep it outwardly as well. But the point here is that they wouldn't turn to HIM.

You must remember the Law was to lead them to Him.

You can see that in v52 of the Scripture you quoted, "they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One".



Paul himself said he followed the laws blameless in the Scripture I quoted already. But also here's two more walking blameless before the Lord in regards to the law.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.

Of course blameless doesn't mean perfectly, but it does mean covered by the sacrifices of the temple. We see this same state of being said about Noah and Job in the OT. Yet we know this wasn't the better covenant we know have. Because WE have access to Christ in our very being. And they had access to Him through a Levite Priest.

But let's tackle the deeper question here.

Was Paul talking about a "false law" or was he talking about the law written on stones?

In answer to that question I point to this Scripture here:

2 Co 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, having been engraved in letters on stones, was produced in glory, so as for the sons of Israel not to be able to look intently into the face of Moses, on account of the glory of his face which is fading, 8how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more in glory?

Paul states the law written on stones was the ministry of death. And he also foreshadows a different ministry that has a greater glory.

10For even that having been made glorious has not been glorified in this respect, on account of the glory surpassing it. 11For if that which is fading away was through glory, much more is that remaining in glory!

The old law is fading away...

12Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness, 13and not as Moses would put a veil over his face for the sons of Israel not to look intently into the end of that fading away.

He put a veil over his face because the glory on his face was fading away... and he wanted to hide it from the Israelites.

14But their minds were hardened; for until the present day, the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant, not being lifted, which is being removed in Christ. 15But unto this day, when Moses shall be read, a veil lies over their heart. 16But whenever one shall have turned to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

The only way that veil is removed is TURNING to Christ... Not turning to the law. The old law is fading away, but we have a greater glory in the ministry of the Spirit of Christ.

Please notice that I have shown you in several Scriptures that the point is turning TO Christ. The Pharisees searched through Scriptures to get eternal life, but they wouldn't turn to Christ. Even though the LAW and the Scriptures and the Prophets and the Sacrifices and the Tabernacle and the Priesthood ALL pointed to Him.

17Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we all having been unveiled in face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Yes this Scripture actually means what it teaches. As we see Him we discover who we are becoming like. Another Scripture tells us the hope of glory is what purifies us. That we shall be like Him when we see Him.

But please notice it is by BEHOLDING Him that we are transformed it is not by beholding the law. Also notice that the Lord brings FREEDOM. This is a much longer topic, but basically we can't truly choose to love until we have true freedom.



[[Note unfortunately I had to remove the rest of what you wrote because of the post's maximum character limitations.]]

I believe I've adequately addressed your statements in this passage of text here. You asked for evidence that the Pharisees were trying to obey God. Well, I've shown you how Jesus said they were obeying the law, but they missed the most important parts. I've also shown you how Paul, Joseph, and Mary were considered blameless before the law. I could pull out more Scriptures that show other people who are blameless before the law, but that's not the main point. The law was never the Savior it shut people unto needing a Savior. Everything points to Christ.

Even Holy Spirit points us to Christ. He reveals what belongs to Christ. He declares what belongs to Christ. He reveals Christ. And HE is the ministry we are now under. I'll show you with an OT Scripture just so you know this was always God's plan:

Jeremiah 31:33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is the new covenant. His law is on our hearts. We love to follow Him. He is our God and we are His people.

And how then do we declare Christ if we don't follow the law written on stones?

Great question.

I leave you with this beautiful Scripture here:

2 Co 3:3 It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

God bless you.

I appreciate your post and the time you spent writing it. Very thoughtful and strong effort to support the preaching that the Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying God's Laws.

However, I don't believe that the Pharisees who killed Jesus and Stephen and the Prophet's before that, are the same as Zechariahs and Mary and Caleb and Noah and Abel and Abraham.

I don't believe one sentence from Paul makes void the entire Old Testament prophesies, All of Jesus Words, and most of Paul's Words regarding the Pharisees and the Law they followed.

Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Phil. 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

I don't believe this is teaching about two different Paul's. I also know what Paul said about the Pharisees.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I could write a long post and actually have for several hours. But it is evident you are convinced that the Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying Him, and the evidence I have provided you to the contrary, though significant, you refuse to consider. So I'm quite sure continuing would be a vanity.

Thank you again for your thoughtful reply and conversation

 

[johnthebaptist]

Can anyone say the word, "over reaction", you have disqualified yourself to criticize anyone here by your extreme reactions to a discussion about "one word" in the bible. And we are, "Uber Cool", you seem to have all the correct vernacular and you continue to use the word "POO" in your post. People understand what the word "POO" means, by trying to show how great you are you have become foolish, and a "Legalist at heart", as you claim you are. Take out the log in your eye first.

"hardshell" is a good screen name for you,

Did I just read the above?
It seems to be saying behaviour and language are now not important, and communicating
frustration with abusive language is not something Jesus and the apostles address.
But this is the typical ways of the world and its passions.

What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
James 4:1-3

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
Titus 2:11-14

 

[Magenta]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Comments like this are made because it is difficult for some people to articulate the difference between church people and leaders that display true Biblical transparency and display true spiritual maturity as the author of Hebrews exhorted them to.

To someone and others content to live spiritually as they are, these comments sound like gospel, but in reality they fit the context of:

James 3:13-16 and Ecc 4:4-6

the truth hurts?


I lived in legalism, I have seen it first hand,. And I have seen the effects. I think I know what it does to people. I did not even give the gospel. So how could it sound like a gospel? I have a view of what happens to people stuck in legalism based on first hand experience

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This appears to be a rant?
I was wondering what culture you come from where profanity is an acceptable part of
gentle, kind, loving interaction and encouragement.

In my culture and upbringing swearing expresses anger and verbal violence, a warning
that actual violence might come next.

Is this what you are actually saying and justifying?
Should we send in the riot police in case a war breaks out in your church?
Or is this your anger bursting out clouding your judgement?

I apologise if this question makes you angry, because I am just trying to understand
your position, as you are a bible teacher and a man who should be respected.

With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
James 3:9-12

Again, read the word of God. Not the watered down versions you have been reading, but study the origional languages,

actually. Maybe you better not. You will be offended by the language used.

 

[VCO]

The problem is people think that since they get saved the moment they believe they don't have to have any works to be saved when Jesus comes back, they're already saved. They don't realize that if they really had been saved the moment they believed they'd have the works of a converted person to show for it. Their own Calvin beliefs about salvation and eternal life say this. But they turn right around and contradict their own beliefs and say you do not have to have works when Jesus comes back to be saved.

They like the eternal life part of the 'P' in Calvin TULIP belief, but they don't like the part in the 'P' of TULIP that says the person who really has eternal life will have works and will persevere to the very end. That makes it so works are required to be saved when Jesus comes back, or else you were never really saved. But they bash you and call you a works salvationist for saying what their own doctrine say.

I KNOW OF NO ONE ON THIS THREAD THAT BELIEVES THAT LIE. YOU ARE CONFUSING Sanctification of the BODIES, with the SALVATION which is of the Spirit. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Your PROBLEM is a RESULT of your PREJUDICE against Calvinism. I do not Believe in 2 of the Five points of Calvinism. Those are UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION, and LIMITED ATONEMENT. Therefore the Calvinists do not want me as a MEMBER, and the Armenians do not want me to be a MEMBER, because of the three points of Calvinisms that I do agree. SO, THE BOTH PARTIES OF THAT ARGUMENT CAN JUST CALL ME A CHRISTIAN. In my opinion, your Beliefs seem to imply that you have HATRED for the CALVINIST.


Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.


The works of righteousness we have done, IS ACT OF LOVE FOR HIM, because HE FIRST LOVED US.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


1 John 4:15-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

1 John 5:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

1 John 4:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love because He first loved us.


LOVE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.


Romans 5:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.


Sanctification of the body is a LIFE LONG STRUGGLE.


1 John 3:2 (ASV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.

 

[stonesoffire]

Is 'having your cake and eating it too' really just a matter of only having actually half a cake leftover?

Not in our house! Nary a bit left.

 

[johnthebaptist]

Again, read the word of God. Not the watered down versions you have been reading, but study the origional languages,

actually. Maybe you better not. You will be offended by the language used.

Not sure I understand. As you know the bible I read, which is it?
And the words you claim will offend me, which are they?

You seem to not be admitting your behaviour is inappropriate and profanity is ok.
A lot of us know how to be profane, also know what it means and what is appropriate.
Those who have been brought up in sheltered enviroments, often think profanity brings
authenticity, but actually demonstrates spiritual failure.

When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, 9 and he went back inside the palace. “Where do you come from?” he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”
John 19:8-11

We follow and dwell in Gods will. What happens to us is given by His hand, to which we need
to bow in humbleness if we are to share in the suffering of Christ.

 

[blue_ladybug]

​Let's get back to the subject of this thread, which is salvation is not by works.. Enough of the potty talk already.. lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not sure I understand. As you know the bible I read, which is it?
And the words you claim will offend me, which are they?

You seem to not be admitting your behaviour is inappropriate and profanity is ok.
A lot of us know how to be profane, also know what it means and what is appropriate.
Those who have been brought up in sheltered enviroments, often think profanity brings
authenticity, but actually demonstrates spiritual failure.

When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, 9 and he went back inside the palace. “Where do you come from?” he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”
John 19:8-11

We follow and dwell in Gods will. What happens to us is given by His hand, to which we need
to bow in humbleness if we are to share in the suffering of Christ.

Well you did not read or understand a word I said. Please go back, reread it, and try to figure out what ,mistakes you made. Then if you still want to respond. Feel free.

 

[dcontroversal]

Haven't you ever barfed? Tossed your cookies? Hawked up what you ate for dinner? LOL

Sit down to a nice cup of mocha and the first post I read hahahhaaha nice Ralph.....upchuck, puke, vomit, hurl, spew, toss your cookies etc..............hahha

 

[stonesoffire]

You must not have ever read Matthew 7:19-23 then. We see there that fruitfulness and lawful obedience are not your works of ministry.

These people who Jesus will reject when he comes back had works of service in the name of Christ but did not have fruitful works of obedience to the law (do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not hate, etc.).

Phuman, Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice'. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

The sacrifice of your service to God in the church will never replace or make up for your lack of lawful obedience.
I've noticed that for all the people who get unraveled over having to be obedient, they are very active in church ministries, being deacons, leading Bible studies, witnessing, giving, etc. They don't realize that when they use Matthew 7 to bash believers who say you have to be obedient to be saved when Jesus comes back, calling them works salvationists, that they are using the very passage of scripture that will condemn them on the day of Christ's return. They have works of service but are lawless and have no works of obedience.

please list the works for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. You know....the one that set us free? Forgot though what we have been freed from....let's see now....what could that be?

 

[stonesoffire]

Sit down to a nice cup of mocha and the first post I read hahahhaaha nice Ralph.....upchuck, puke, vomit, hurl, spew, toss your cookies etc..............hahha

had no idea until I saw magentas post. Wish I hadn't.

kidding magenta. Thanks.

 

[dcontroversal]

Dcon has never said that works aren't needed for salvation. He HAS said they are not needed to KEEP salvation, or to GAIN salvation... We still need to do them, but not for that purpose..

The result or by product of salvation and that believers will have both types of works...gold, silver and precious stones <--faithful.........wood, hay and stubble <---unfaithful....and that some wll have their works roasted to a burnt crispy coal yet they are still saved because.......SALVATION IS A ONE OFF ETERNAL EVENT BASED ENTIRELY UPON FAITH AND IT IS A CURRENT PRESENT POSSESSION that is not earned, gained, kept or maintained by works!