Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

[Hizikyah]

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”[/FONT]

 

[homwardbound]

They think Paul was a false Apostle because they are false Christians who can only justify their beliefs by making Paul out to be false..........problem for them is, I read the back of the Book, and true Believers WIN!

Denying Paul's Apostleship amounts to denying Christ, as it was He who chose and anointed Paul an Apostle.

Might be because when anyone is free, others cannot control thee. Fro not even God controls us, I hear What? Yes, for we are given free choice to choose willingly in belief to his love and mercy or not. That is what Paul continued in telling us all about Father's love, you are free, forgiven and loved by him through Son forever.

Appreciation, Thanksgiving, and praise is in order to me to say Thank You and now I am listening what to do in response to this truth.

Even John agrees with Paul 1 John 2:1-2,12. A totally new view from Father's view, as in Romans 12:2 Wow, Thank You for this view you brought up

 

[homwardbound]

I never learned of this assertion until this forum

and then only a few months back

but the flip side, are people putting the words of Paul over the words of Christ

Misinterpreting it for selfish gain, to make one's actions righteous, not before Father and Son before the people for praises and rewards from them. That is what Christ talked about to not sit in Moses's seat, go into thy closet in private and pray, Father who knows all secrets rewards thee openly. The tree is identified by its fruit, and Father does the exposing in private to us personally and to remain harmless as a dove at the same time Matthew 10:16-20

 

[homwardbound]

But for that matter what is an apostle? I mean the word apostle means a disciple or a follower or a student but apparently it's like blasphemy to call yourself an apostle of Christ nowadays

When they needed a new Apostle after Judas left them, they looked for only one that had been there and seen Christ was there at his death and seen his resurrection. Matthias and

[h=1]Acts 1:22-26Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]22 beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 that he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

That is why Paul said he was an Apostle not worthy to be an Apostle, and did get the right hand of fellowship from the Disciples. Was told to go to the Gentiles
Thanks[/FONT]

 

[joefizz]

No one is for all 613 of the laws. Not even Judaism anymore.

What I've seen with people who twist Paul or try to make it seem as if he contradicts Christ is that they bring us back to their favorite OT laws. Usually it is only one or two.

I am,just for the life of me can't remember them all in order to not break them everyday!(hahaha hahaha)

 

[homwardbound]

That's why I think it's important to have a proper understanding of the differences between the teachings of the Lord Jesus during His earthly ministry, and His teachings after the cross (through His spokesman Paul).

Christian Law keepers, for example, tend to disqualify Paul because some of his teachings are in conflict with their theology.

That is real truth Brother, Thank You. We have I see a before the cross under Law, that Christ had to fulfill first before any new life could ever be given. Which is today given in his risen Live per Romans 5:10

Saved by his life, His Risen Life after his death took care of the mess, brought on from the First Adam in the deception of unbelief to death would be if he ate from that tree.

I see it was not an Apple, it was the Pair (pear) on the ground. However, this curse is reversed in Son's done work once for everyone as forgiven at the cross Col. 1:22. Just now waiting for belief to see, as I could not see until I finalized by Christ I am forgiven for new life to be given by Father

[h=1]Ephesians 1:6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Ephesians 1:7Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

[/FONT]
[h=1]Ephesians 1:13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

And John agrees
1John 2:1-2,12 Thank you[/FONT]

 

[homwardbound]

Paul takes precedence over Jesus? wow! think i would be looking for a new church.

Not what is meant, and it is okay if you think this, As Father, I trust in Spirit and Truth to teach us as per Romans 14:4

Paul did not preach himself, he preached Christ crucified and risen. He took no credit to self and even said this in Phil 3:1-3, to put no trust in any flesh nature of mankind.

Thank You

 

[homwardbound]

It's no surprise. They've tried to say Hebrews should be taken out of the canon, then said all of Jesus' teachings before the cross were OT, & now this.

Maybe Bethel church is behind this.

It was Christ's mission to fulfill all the Law and Prophets that spoke of him such as

[h=1]Isaiah 54:9-10Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me:
for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth;
so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed;
but my kindness shall not depart from thee,
neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed,
saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo posted:

One evening, after a service, we asked a pastor about the differences between the Gospels and the Pauline letters and he told us that, in case of conflict, the teachings of Paul take precedence over those of the Lord Jesus because Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. His explanation sounded weak (or incomplete), but we accepted it.

Paul takes precedence over Jesus? wow! think i would be looking for a new church.

Paul was Christ's spokesman and his words were actually Christ's. What the pastor meant was this: Christ's words after the cross take precedence over Christ's words before the cross.

Example: Before the cross Jesus told the disciples to keep the commandments (the Law) and after the cross (using Paul as a messenger) He said that we are no longer under the Law. What the Lord Jesus said through Paul takes precedence over what He said in his earthly ministry.

 

[OneFaith]

Paul, not Matthias, was the apostle Christ chose to replace Judas. Despite the efforts of the other apostles, who made up qualifications which Paul would not pass, there was only one thing that made an apostle of Christ- being handpicked by Christ Himself- with no middleman. The Bible says Paul is an apostle of Christ, and indeed He is, for Christ met him on the road to Damascus and chose him personally. Christ did not personally come to Matthias, but He did to all the other apostles, including Paul.

 

[JaumeJ]

The major misunderstanding is when the word, Apostle, is applied to Paul. There are only Twelve Apostles with the honor of having their names on the twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem, and of course, Paul is not one of them.

Apostle may be translated as "sente out." If the accounts of Paul's conversion are true, and I believe them, he is definitely sent out, and therefore he is an apostle in the sense of themeaning of the word.

His teaching seem completely sound, though many who read him misconstrue his teachings not being truly aware of the reason for them to the varied assemblies. This is easily rememdied by learning directly from Jesus Christ, Yeshua, as we are all invited byu Him to do.

Most read the Epistles as though they are of the assemblies witht he problems being addressed by Paul. Paul's teaching is he same as that of Jesus Christ, as Paul declares when he tells us his teaching is the one gospel, the oly gospel, that being of Jesus Christ.

If Paul seems offish at times, look for your current question's response from Jesus, Himself. You have been invited to share in this gift directly from God........I do it; oh, I also learn from Paul...God bless you and hold you close always.

 

[OtherWay210]

So many people, are atheists .. That is why ..
Everyone with a keyboard is a self proclamation bible scholar.
And there are gullible people that listen to everything they hear or their friends tell them. Could be Satans own children behind the keyboard, but if it tells them what they want to hear, its good with them .. People also seek out information to validate their own assumptions .

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.


Paul was chosen by Christ himself. and wrote most of the New Testament .. Do not expect people who hold confused views about Paul, to actually admit to reading his letters. They wont admit the teachings are the same as Christ's .. They'e been taught otherwise falsely

 

[p_rehbein]

To be clear: Jesus "sent out" many, many more of His disciples than 12. In one instance alone, He "sent out" 70 I believe. People get hung up on the 12 disciples as being the ONLY legitimate messengers Jesus chose to spread/preach the Good News, and Scripture itself shows that IS NOT truth.

The disciples got caught up in this as well, even asking Jesus who would sit where at the Throne and such, and who was greater and such.......Jesus didn't play that game with them, and I will not either.

Yes, I have my favorites.......John, Paul, and Stephen....but many, many more are just A WEE TIC below them in my heart.

 

[notuptome]

To bring such an accusation against a man that God greatly blessed should cause us to ask not what is wrong with Paul but who is he who accuses the brethren.

What are the motives of such people?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Marcelo]

To bring such an accusation against a man that God greatly blessed should cause us to ask not what is wrong with Paul but who is he who accuses the brethren.

What are the motives of such people?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

One of their motives could be the following: some people love to live in bondage; they don't like the freedom we have in Christ. When Jesus was on earth He commanded His disciples to keep the Law (because at that time it was still in force), whereas Paul said the Law had been abolished.

My church had a doctrinal error, some 25 years ago: women were prohibited from trimming their hair and some of them were very proud the have their hair almost at floor length. When the board of elders decided to remove the prohibition some sisters got angry and continued having their hair untrimmed. I think Sigmund Freud can explain that.

 

[Studyman]

One of their motives could be the following: some people love to live in bondage; they don't like the freedom we have in Christ. When Jesus was on earth He commanded His disciples to keep the Law (because at that time it was still in force), whereas Paul said the Law had been abolished.

My church had a doctrinal error, some 25 years ago: women were prohibited from trimming their hair and some of them were very proud the have their hair almost at floor length. When the board of elders decided to remove the prohibition some sisters got angry and continued having their hair untrimmed. I think Sigmund Freud can explain that.

Paul never said God's Law was abolished. You say that, "many" who come in Christ's name preach that. But Paul never did.

 

[JaumeJ]

My dear brother, I have never seen sucha collection of people claiming to have the Holy Spirit leading them who say it is abolished to love man and God, God first and foremost of course.

If they believe the above they would know in the Spirit the law is not abolished. You keep up the good fight against error, and I will attempt to do the same.

May god, Yahweh, hold you close and ear forever...........j

Paul never said God's Law was abolished. You say that, "many" who come in Christ's name preach that. But Paul never did.

 

[JaumeJ]

let me say it plainly.

Many here say they obey God because they love. Do they realize all the law hangs on Love, of God and one's neighbors?

If they claim to know this, then how can they deny the law is not still in effect.

I suppose they need to study the Word a bit more and see that although Jesus Christ, Yeshua, has fulfilled the lion's portion of thelaw, there are many, and He teaches wwhich, that are still very much in effect.

To say the law was abolished by Jesus Christ can beocntrued as saying He lied, and we all know He did not.

Too many are teaching without knowledge, and this should nto be.

 

[notuptome]

One of their motives could be the following: some people love to live in bondage; they don't like the freedom we have in Christ. When Jesus was on earth He commanded His disciples to keep the Law (because at that time it was still in force), whereas Paul said the Law had been abolished.

My church had a doctrinal error, some 25 years ago: women were prohibited from trimming their hair and some of them were very proud the have their hair almost at floor length. When the board of elders decided to remove the prohibition some sisters got angry and continued having their hair untrimmed. I think Sigmund Freud can explain that.

So you believe that it is acceptable to bring railing accusation against the man of God on such a false premise? You repeat this stuff for what reason? Certainly it is a poor way to teach truth.

Warning in scripture against accusing the man of God in his ministry.

2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Paul who was a Pharisee of Pharisees was so raptured in the grace of God he constantly taught against legalism. Paul drew a clear line between grace and legalism for righteousness sake.

How about we stop fretting over the length of women's hair and teach the grace of God unto eternal life. Some of the old gals need to surrender their pride and walk in humility before the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger