The politics of Gay rights.

[Embankment]

[h=1]Matthew 19:16-22New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3][/h]16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Is this you?

 

[CS1]

I am glad the OP adds the caveat that morally - yes we all think it is a sin.

However in our everyday daily lives, we are called to love one another and treating each other with dignity and respect is part of it.
People who are homosexuals and considering "marrying" their homosexual partners have for all purposes chosen to live in that manner.
Should they be denied spousal benefits that come from marriage including rights - like right to estate, power of attorney, tax considerations etc ?
If a homosexual person for any purpose becomes incompetent to make decisions on their own, should their homosexual partners accept responsibility?
From a legal perspective, it seems easier to grant them the same rights and it devolves from a moral high ground to civil rights.
Even a short while back, homosexuality was seen as a barrier for professional growth. Should a person be denied promotion because they are gay? That would be discrimination. Laws and charters are put in place for the sake of protection. (The USA had states practicing segregation up till the 1960s for crying out loud.)

There have been several people who were homosexual and have contributed to the growth of society and technology.
Peter Thiel is openly gay and famously conservative. Tim Cook is gay. Alan Turing was gay.

As a Christian, my moral compass points towards treating others with respect and dignity, and seeing that their rights are protected should be part of it.
Does this mean that we are condoning homosexuality? No. But the way they live their lives does not dictate the sanctity of our relationships and our standards of living.

LOl your argument is hypercritical and bias. I say that respectfully and here is why. Those who are homosexual are trying to mandate their Idea of marriage and morality on the majority. It is not marriage by the norm. If those who are homosexual are advocating for polygamists too? or those who want to marry their own sister or brother? or children under the age of 11? How irrational is that thinking? Really? That was the thinking of same sex marriage just 10 years ago. Therefore, those same self-righteous homosexuals are going to restrict the following.

1. Marriage to children
2. Multiple husbands and wives
3. Incest marriage
4. And benefits to those who just live together
WHAT is the Moral relevance Homosexual will use to stop this? Or do they support anything goes no matter what the majority thinks?

I'm sure there are many of those with different sexual preferences who have “have contributed to the growth of society and technology." Was it there sexual preference that did it? In addition, if they change back; as many of them do which is not reported this day to much, because the ever so tolerant gay community will attack them to obscurity.

as a Christian my moral compass is telling those the truth in Love and no abusing people by supporting a lie.

gay marriage is not of God and homosexuals, drunker's and liars, evil doers , Shall not see the Kingdom of God.

the way one live thier is in the context they have with the relationship they have with God.

Homosexuality is asin that is supported by those who do not care what God thinks about the action they do. and homosexuality is not a race of people it is a sexual prefrence of the self-decived and of those who do not know the word of God.

 

[CS1]

The only sin that leads to death is unbelief in Jesus as the son of God. That will doom you.

homosexuality will get one there too.

 

[Inquistor]

I don't see where I am setting a distinction, I said sin is sin. You apparently think that sins are ranked differently. ?

Absolutely! The scriptures tell us so. How can you not be aware of this? "There is a sin that leads to death." And you think that sin is unbelief in Christ? Can you cite any scripture(s) for that?


Matthew 12:31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

 

[Embankment]

In that case, Inquistor, if you are so worried about others sins and keeping them straight, why don't you come clean about the sin you are doing and stop doing them? Take the stick out of your own eye and stop worrying about the speck in someone else's eye?

 

[Inquistor]

Can anyone on this thread DEFINE sexual immorality, as the BIBLE defines it?

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

 

[MichaelOwen]

Well here is what the scriptures tell us, that ALL sin can be forgiven, that's a fact.....but the one sin that cannot be forgiven is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and in that sense, that is dying without accepting Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour, that is the unpardonable sin. Every other sin, homosexuality, adultery, murder, rape, thievery, drunkenness, slander, maliciousness, all of that can be forgiven if you confess your sins to Him. Remember He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us in all righteousness.

 

[CS1]

"As a Christian, my moral compass points towards treating others with respect and dignity, and seeing that their rights are protected should be part of it.
Does this mean that we are condoning homosexuality? No. But the way they live their lives does not dictate the sanctity of our relationships and our standards of living."

This statement is a very good one and I would like to ask you how much of this kind of thinking "live and let live" helped the following people in the bible:


1. Lott and his family

2. Noah

3. Samson

4. Saul

WAS IT BETTER THEY LISTEN TO GOD ? Or wink at sin ? hey as long as I am not doing it who cares ?

 

[Inquistor]

Well here is what the scriptures tell us, that ALL sin can be forgiven, that's a fact.....but the one sin that cannot be forgiven is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and in that sense, that is dying without accepting Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour, that is the unpardonable sin. Every other sin, homosexuality, adultery, murder, rape, thievery, drunkenness, slander, maliciousness, all of that can be forgiven if you confess your sins to Him. Remember He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us in all righteousness.

What does THIS scripture mean, and WHY is it in the New Testament?

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

 

[Socreta93]

.....but the one sin that cannot be forgiven is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and in that sense, that is dying without accepting Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour, that is the unpardonable sin.

I made a thread about this topic, while yes you won't go to heaven unless you are saved and accepted Jesus as your savior, that is NOT blasphemy against the holy spirit.

 

[Dude653]

I don't see where I am setting a distinction, I said sin is sin. You apparently think that sins are ranked differently. ?

It's kind of hard for me to believe that stealing a candy bar from Walmart is the same as murdering 6 million people

 

[kaylagrl]

How is sexual preference not a right? I'm talking about consenting adults here so let's not bring up the pedophilia fallacy that right-wingers always go to.
You're doing it right now. Trying to force your religion on someone else by saying that people don't have a right to be gay

A right to be gay? lol You are such an odd person.If we all decide to be homosexual how is humanity going to survive? You don't need the Bible to prove that homosexuality isn't normal. There was a religious group called the Shakers. One of the rules they had was that if you were married and you came into the group you were no longer married.Men and women were kept completely separate.Wanna guess how many "Shakers" there are today?! Right,zero. Men and womens bodies were designed by somebody to fit together. Now you can marry your goat,your horse,your dog,your boyfriend but it ain't normal. If the country gives them the right to marry by vote,then the majority have spoken.But you're never going to tell me its normal and right for a person to be gay or transgender,and thats science,you can keep the Bible closed. Common sense isn't common enough these days.

 

[Dude653]

Funny thing is, I can argue, gay people are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. That's from personal experience, also my mom was once traveling on a bus from DC and she tripped over a bag while hitting the floor hard. No one helped except this one dude who she said was gay. Note justifying the lifestyle but it's not like they have evil malicious thoughts going on for the most part.

Right. Throughout the years I've had multiple gay friends and it's never been an issue. I try not to demonize entire groups of people

 

[Angela_s]

Sorry for replying to you and coming on this thread just now.

We never said and do not think homosexuals are evil. We recognize them as normal individual capable of good and/or evil, like everyone else.
Homosexuality itself is ,instead, not normal and not okay (As we always sustain and sustained).

So, I don't get the point of this post. No offence.

I was referring to this post :

Funny thing is, I can argue, gay people are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. That's from personal experience, also my mom was once traveling on a bus from DC and she tripped over a bag while hitting the floor hard. No one helped except this one dude who she said was gay. Note justifying the lifestyle but it's not like they have evil malicious thoughts going on for the most part.

Sorry for the mess.

 

[kaylagrl]

Right....
I'm concerned about individual freedoms.
I want to see a group of people be stripped of their civil rights just because of popular opinion.

I'll get back to you when they're forcing preachers to perform gay weddings,see if you're still as concerned about rights.

 

[maxwel]

I don't see where I am setting a distinction, I said sin is sin. You apparently think that sins are ranked differently. ?

General Issue with this Topic - Confusion:


My view on the entire homosexuality debate is that there are a MULTITUDE of DISTINCT ISSUES which we confuse and fail to separate, and this leads to virtually endless equivocations and false dilemmas.

Another way to put this would be to say this whole topic is just rife with utter logical confusion, genuine errors in logic, and btw, this particular sin in scripture IS referred to as "confusion."

Yes, this particular sin is called "confusion" in the bible.
Confusion... doesn't "confusion" sound like the essence of all arguments on this topic, just utter confusion?
Where does confusion come from in scripture?
What are the results of confusion in scripture?

Why does this sin carry, or create, so much confusion?

* This particular sin forces you to relinquish many foundational truths about reality -
and relinquishing simple truths about reality forces you to believe UNREALITY... and relinquishing reality and accepting unreality, even in just one area, will LOGICALLY FORCE, by NECESSITY, many of your thought processes into illogic and confusion.

* To put it more simply, and a bit coarsely: If you can't understand where your own penis goes... which even dogs and cats can understand... then how can you possibly understand anything complicated in life?




Particular Issue With The Quoted Comment:


So to answer the comment I quoted above, I would say we are failing to DRAW DISTINCTIONS where distinctions are needed.

1. All sin DOES separates us from God, and so all sin is equally condemning before God.

2. This DOES NOT mean that all sin does equal harm in your life, or equal harm in society.

3. Though all sin is equally condemning before God, while some sins actually DO HARM YOU MORE IN THIS LIFE THAN OTHER SINS, in spite of this important distinction... we are still left with the mandate that all sinners should be treated with mercy and compassion.



Conclusions


1. All sin serves equally to separate us from God - but all sin does NOT produce equal harm in our mortal life, or in the lives of others.

- Telling a lie about your age will send you to hell, with equal force, as torturing a child... but nobody would argue that lying about your age and torturing a child actually have an equal impact on society, or should be treated the same by society.

2. We all KNOW, FUNDAMENTALLY, that some sins do more harm than others, and they are NOT the same.

3. Although some sins DO, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, create more harm than others... we are still to treat all sinners with mercy and compassion.


We need to get better at DRAWING DISTINCTIONS... this is how we OVERCOME CONFUSION.

 

[Dude653]

A right to be gay? lol You are such an odd person.If we all decide to be homosexual how is humanity going to survive? You don't need the Bible to prove that homosexuality isn't normal. There was a religious group called the Shakers. One of the rules they had was that if you were married and you came into the group you were no longer married.Men and women were kept completely separate.Wanna guess how many "Shakers" there are today?! Right,zero. Men and womens bodies were designed by somebody to fit together. Now you can marry your goat,your horse,your dog,your boyfriend but it ain't normal. If the country gives them the right to marry by vote,then the majority have spoken.But you're never going to tell me its normal and right for a person to be gay or transgender,and thats science,you can keep the Bible closed. Common sense isn't common enough these days.

Because we're talking about an extremely small minority so it's going to have no effect on human population. The Earth is already overpopulated as it is

 

[Dude653]

I'll get back to you when they're forcing preachers to perform gay weddings,see if you're still as concerned about rights.

Same-sex couples should have the right to get married just like a Christian preacher should have the right not to marry them. That's what the courthouse is for.
I believe that's fair for everyone involved

 

[kaylagrl]

Right. Throughout the years I've had multiple gay friends and it's never been an issue. I try not to demonize entire groups of people

I love how people say "do not judge" then turn right around and judge the people they're reprimanding for judging. To say homosexuality is sin is not demonizing anyone.

 

[kaylagrl]

Because we're talking about an extremely small minority so it's going to have no effect on human population. The Earth is already overpopulated as it is

Homosexuality was deemed sin in the OT,if society had accepted homosexuality and we all became gay where would we be? The point is homosexuality is not normal,if it was they would be able to procreate. As usual,you side stepped the point.