GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[LoveGodForever]

if you one to do a topical Bible study, then you still need to use chronological order and context. just plucking out verses and writing your own opinions is false teaching. like Sabbath for believers. cobbled together.

Topical bible study is just that it is comparing scripture with scripture precept upon precept here a little there a little and letting the scriptures speak for themselves on a specific topic that is being studied. The most important thing of all however is having the Holy teacher of the Word to reveal spiritual things because spiritual thing are only shown to those who know they are blind and who ask in faith..

 

[gb9]

It is actually code for I do not believe your scriptures even though all the scriptures posted on the website from everyone here are a cut a paste from the bible

if anything, it is code for not believing Sabbath cults. you don't believe John, when he said in his 1st letter that the commands that N.T. believers are believe in the Name of the Son, and love one another. you and others only post verses that seem to support your Sabbath deception, and ignore or dismiss others.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Sabbath is jewish, not Christian. we are saved by grace, through faith, for good works. not saved by Sabbath, through keeping the Sabbath, for grace to continue to keep the Sabbath.
so, that is my point.

So is not using God's name in vain Jewish and not Christian?

What about not having other God's is this Jewish and not Christian?

What about coveting is this Jewish and not Christian?

What about stealing is this Jewish and not Christian?

What about murder is this Jewish and not Christian?

What about not omitting adultery is this also Jewish and not Christian?

.....................

I guess you get the picture these are all from God's LAW the ten commandments and they are all through the OLD and NEW Testament. God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[valiant]

Hello Dave,

You cannot separate God’s Law of love from the 10 commandments because they are connected to each other. There is no need for confusion here. God’s Word makes it very clear.

Let's have a look......................

What does Jesus say when he talk about the commandments. Jesus is quoting from Old testament scriptures of Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.................

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40, ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Let's get clearer.....................

Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. <Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God>

Well Jesus makes it very clear that what he is talking about it is the 10 commandments of God's Law.

What about James.......................

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE SHALL BE GUILTY OF ALL.
11, FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SAID ALSO DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AND YOU KILL, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Well James makes it very clear what he is talking about when he talks about the Royal Law of love. He is talking about the 10 commandments. So Jesus and James both agree that they are talking about God's 10 commandments which also include the 4th commandment which is one of the ten.

What about Paul? He wrote a lot of books in God's Word..............

Romans 13
8, Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
9, For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
10, Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Paul makes it very clear what he is talking about as well when he is talking about God's Law. It seems like Jesus, James and Paul all agree together what it is they are referring to when talking about God's Law. They are all referring to God's 10 commandments which includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:1-17)

So now that God's Word shows us what it is referring to. No need to guess, what are talking about, God’s Law of Love is God's 10 commandments. It is only through Faith that works by love that anyone can walk in the Spirit which produces the fruit of obedience because love is the fulfilling of God’s Law in those that walk by faith and not by sight.

Now let's look at the CONTEXT of the scripture you quoted from 1 John 3:22. Lovely scripture by the way.

1 John 3:22
23, And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as he gave us commandment.

Now as we have seen above God's LAW (10 commandments) through LOVE is the fulfillment of God's LAW who have FAITH. Now is that the same for this scripture here in John?

Let's look at the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:23...............
1 John 3
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
11, For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12, Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13, Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14, We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death.
15, Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


So it looks like Jesus, James, Paul and John all agree together so it is unanimous that God's Law (10 commandments) are all tied to LOVE which is the power of God unto salvation through Faith. The FRUIT of FAITH is OBEDIENCE and the fulfilling of God's LAW in the hearts of those who walk by FAITH in the SPIRIT (Romans 8:1-4)

So my friend the FRUIT of FAITH is OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 commandments) If you have no FRUIT then you need to be aware that your tree will be CUT DOWN. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10:26-27; 31)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

If we break any of God’s Laws we stand guilty before God in SIN (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

I notice Jesus (nor James nor John) never included the 4th word when He listed God's requirements.

 

[LoveGodForever]

if anything, it is code for not believing Sabbath cults. you don't believe John, when he said in his 1st letter that the commands that N.T. believers are believe in the Name of the Son, and love one another. you and others only post verses that seem to support your Sabbath deception, and ignore or dismiss others.

It's really about who we believe. Do we believe and follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God or do we follow the Word of God?

............................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[gb9]

So is not using God's name in vain Jewish and not Christian?

What about not having other God's is this Jewish and not Christian?

What about coveting is this Jewish and not Christian?

What about stealing is this Jewish and not Christian?

What about murder is this Jewish and not Christian?

What about not omitting adultery is this also Jewish and not Christian?

.....................

I guess you get the picture these are all from God's LAW the ten commandments and they are all through the OLD and NEW Testament. God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

all the other commands are repeated in the N.T. Sabbath is mentioned, but there is not a command, for gentiles, to keep it. not one verse that says " all believers should keep the Sabbath" .

 

[LoveGodForever]

I notice Jesus never included the 4th word when He listed God's requirements.

all the other commands are repeated in the N.T. Sabbath is mentioned, but there is not a command, for gentiles, to keep it. not one verse that says " all believers should keep the Sabbath" .

Of course he did you may need to read your bible.....

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

..........................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[gb9]

It's really about who we believe. Do we believe and follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God or do we follow the Word of God?

............................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

yes, the 10 given to Israel on Sinai, not to the whole world. the O.T. is about the jewish people, the N.T. is for the world. John's whole gospel.

 

[LoveGodForever]

yes, the 10 given to Israel on Sinai, not to the whole world. the O.T. is about the jewish people, the N.T. is for the world. John's whole gospel.

If you are not a part of God's Israel you are not a part of the New Covenant.....

Hebrews 8
10, For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:5 and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

You know there are too many other scriptures that can be quoted that you choose not to see. Let me know, I am happy to post them

 

[gb9]

If you are not a part of God's Israel you are not a part of the New Covenant.....

Hebrews 8
10, For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:5 and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

You know there are too many other scriptures that can be quoted that you choose not to see. Let me know, I am happy to post them

I have read the Bible through many times, I do not need your help with verses. now, here is a little help for you- when the Roman council assembled the Bible, they created what we call the New testament. the jewish writings were not added till later.

so, the first Bible did not have the O.T. but, it had a lot about Jesus, who saves. not Sabbath, which has nothing to do with salvation.

 

[LoveGodForever]

I have read the Bible through many times, I do not need your help with verses. now, here is a little help for you- when the Roman council assembled the Bible, they created what we call the New testament. the jewish writings were not added till later. so, the first Bible did not have the O.T. but, it had a lot about Jesus, who saves. not Sabbath, which has nothing to do with salvation.

My friend what you are not seeing is the one you cannot see that really put everything together just the way he wanted it. It is the Word of God and we should Believe it. Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Words are his people.

Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word are UNBELIEVERS and UNBELIEVERS have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven because they are still in their sins.

It is sin that will keep all those who practice it out of God's Kingdom. It is not enough to just read God's Word it must be spiritually discerned and as a revelation through the Spirit of truth to make the blind eyes see....

 

[Beez]

what I am saying is this, for example - Romans is a letter that Paul wrote, so if you want to look at parts of it, that is fine. but we need to keep in mind it is a letter. it should be read as a letter.

also, chapters and verses were not added the Bible until 100's of years after it was assembled. for reference . not to chop it ino pieces and build theology around the pieces.

Sabbath is jewish, not Christian. we are saved by grace, through faith, for good works. not saved by Sabbath, through keeping the Sabbath, for grace to continue to keep the Sabbath.

so, that is my point.

Thank you for answering.

 

[valiant]

Of course he did you may need to read your bible.....

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

So He mentions it to recommend breaking it?

2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

The ONLY verse which mentions the Sabbath is Mark 2.27 and that is where Jesus said it was made FOR MAN. Thus He felt able to modify it even for the Jews.

3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)

So He claims authority to change the Sabbath.

4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)

Of course you cannot enter into His rest unless you come to Christ, just as they could not enter God's rest (Canaan).

5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)

James is speaking of the wider commandments of God, not specifically of the ten. He does not mention the Sabbath, (YOU would have made it prominent)

6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)

It merely says that sin is anomia (lawlessness). No mention of the Sabbath. As always it is noticeably absent.

7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)

The Sabbath is not mentioned in Revelation. Ezekiel was written to JEWS. You have to bring it in, in order for it to be mentioned LOL

8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)

Jesus while on earth was a JEW. He was bound by the covenant with ISRAEL.

9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

You mean they made use of it to preach the Gospel to the Jews.
..........................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Exodus 20.8-11 is the only one that mentions the Sabbath

Do you observe the Sabbath as a day of complete rest (Exod 20), or do you observe it as day for doing good (Mark 2.27-28)?.
Both were spoken to the JEWS.

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED

There is not one scripture in all God's word that says many things are abolished. We gather it from its (and their) NON-MENTION, and from the fact that no one is to judge us concerning new moons and Sabbaths,. Show me one injunction in the letters to the churches which suggest it is necessary to observe the Sabbath specifically. Surely there must be at least ONE?

 

[mailmandan]

not Sabbath, which has nothing to do with salvation.

NOWHERE does the NT teach that keeping the Sabbath day is binding on Christians under the New Covenant. SDA's can quote a multitude of scriptures and twist those scriptures to say whatever they want to make them say, but to no avail. They are not fooling us.

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when SDA's set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place (no traveling) on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

SDA's play the same game in salvation as every other false movement of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to salvation by grace through faith, not works. Even though they deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Their doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel (Galatians 1:6-9).

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

It is actually code for I do not believe your scriptures even though all the scriptures posted on the website from everyone here are a cut a paste from the bible

LOL you are the cut and paste king, and of YOUR OPINIONS which have been proved again and again to be worthless.


Cut and paste from the Scriptures are a proof of their accuracy.

 

[BillG]

Evening to you too my friend! The day went well! I got to see and experience GOD's mighty hand.

Took a picture to document it.

​

If you are on facebook. Here is a link to my Facebook page link where I posted it. Over 300 showed up for dinner and gifts. What a great opportunity it was to serve and witness! I was actually tearing up from joy when I took it! Blessed day indeed.
I pray yours was also!




Thank you! May HE bless us all my friend!
I still have about 4 more hours or so before I turn in. I probably won't be on here all night. I have to spend some more time with the family.

In regards to your inquiry I have a question. How can we receive forgiveness from sin without knowing what sin is and what it is to live righteous?

You know that the Disciples taught the Gospel through the Spirit through the Torah, Psalms, Proverbs, and the books of the prophets.

Proof of that is in their quoting of them in Paul's, John's, and Peter's writings. Of course now we have the New Testament and use it also. But If we are evangelizing without using that which Testifies of Christ we are not discipling in the manner of the Disciples. We are not making Disciples.

Afternoon squire

Thanks for responding.
Hopefully I can explain myself a bit better.

Yes we are to make disciples

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

So we have 3 steps

Going, baptising and teaching

We can't baptise someone who does believe.
How do they believe?
By hearing the good news of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, for the forgiveness of sins.
Most people we evangelise today or start coming to church probably know nothing of the OT, and very little of the NT.

So to me it's preaching the good news as Peter did in Acts and as Paul did with the gentiles.

To repent of their sin (unbelief) in Jesus
and to do so is to

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

What perturbs me a bit is that the can and alas does, it leaves it at that.



To me that's where teaching comes in.
A new believer needs to be discipled in the ways of Jesus.
What it actually means to be in Jesus and what it means to have Jesus in you.

So when one repents of the sin of unbelief I would say they also repent of the sins of the flesh.
But also they need to be taught about sins in the heart that do not manifest in the flesh, i.e adultery, hate etc.

With regards baptism.

These are my thoughts.
In the time of the early church the idea of an unbaptised believer was foreign

Baptism does not save.
However baptism is the outwork expression of the inward faith in Jesus.
Baptism to me is a spiritual marker in one's life.
Someone who comes to faith should be baptised ASAP.

There is a tendency in today's church that people are not baptised until they prove themselves, therefore they do not get baptised because they feel they need to be perfect.

Also there is a tendency to have to stand up and give a big testimony. A lot of people are not comfortable with this.
I have spoken to a few people who fell foul of the above 2 points.

I just said, if you are going to wait to be perfect you ain't ever gonna get baptised. Go get baptised.
Also no big testimony is needed, just stand up and say "I'm getting baptised because I believe in Jesus and has asked me to get baptised"

These are my thoughts.

 

[posthuman]

It's really about who we believe. Do we believe and follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God or do we follow the Word of God?

But what does Scripture say?
(Galatians 4:30)​

 

[posthuman]

is it written:

"each one must be fully convinced in his own mind to regard one day as more sacred than another"

?

is it written:

"Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing THE WRONG special days and THE WRONG months and THE WRONG seasons and THE WRONG years! I fear for you, that my efforts for you may have been in vain.…"

?

is it written:

"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under *most* of the Law, but under grace and the weekly sabbath but not the other sabbaths"

?

 

[posthuman]

But what does Scripture say?
(Galatians 4:30)​

 

[posthuman]

Death is swallowed up in victory!
O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?
The sting of death is sin,
and the power of sin is the Law.
But thanks be to God,
who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 15:54-56)

​

does sin still have power over you?
or do you believe?

​

​