GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[DiscipleDave]

Scriptures Plainly and Clearly tells us what "His Commandments" are.
Do not listen to anyone who says "His Commandments" are something other than what Scriptures plainly teaches us.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is His Commandment, That we should 1) Believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and 2) Love One Another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

i promise you, ANYONE who does those two things. ARE KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS. Woe to any person who teaches otherwise, they shall not escape the wrath of God when it comes upon the Earth.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[posthuman]

The Greek Word and English Word for "Ordinance" is not used in 1 Cor 9 so I do not know what you are talking about.

so when Paul says "to those under the Law I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself" -- he's not saying "I'm not under the ordinances" -- he's actually saying he's not under the Law ? he's talking about people under the Law not under 'ordinances' ?

which Law is that?

did someone actually save Paul from this body of death?

 

[posthuman]

But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying,
‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.'
(Exodus 31:13)

Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.
(Ezekiel 20:12)​

Yes indeed, nice scriptures. This is of course only applicable to those who by Faith follow him through LOVE.

that is not correct.
these things are concerning the Law and they were written to those under the Law.
Exodus 31 is in fact the Law.
no where does the Law say "the Law is only applicable to those who by faith follow Him through love" -- you're giving me human tradition

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: "The person who does these things will live by them."
(Romans 10:5)

The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."
(Galatians 3:12)

"Take to your heart all the words with which I am warning you today, which you shall command your sons to observe carefully, even all the words of this law. For it is not an idle word for you; indeed it is your life. And by this word you will prolong your days in the land, which you are about to cross the Jordan to possess."
(Deuteronomy 32:46-47)

​

someone asked the purpose of the sabbath. God is clear: the purpose of the sabbath is a sign between Him and those under the Law, to make them know that it is the LORD who sanctifies them.
it is illustrated by the first time He commanded it: the first mention of anyone, anywhere, commanded to keep a sabbath is Exodus 16. in relation to the bread from heaven: to gather a double portion on the 6[SUP]th[/SUP] day, and gather none on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] - any extra gathered on any day He did not command to gather extra would spoil, but the LORD faithfully preserves according to His promise, regardless of anything they tried to do to preserve their bread. God preserves, but man is unable. and who is the true bread that comes down from heaven? what is the double portion we should gather, and when?

 

[posthuman]

the standard of the Old Covenant

previously covered & worth repeating: Jesus says all the Law hangs on two commands, one in Deuteronomy 6 and one in Leviticus 19.

neither are part of Exodus 20:1-17 or Deuteronomy 5.

what you say is 'the standard' does not agree with what Christ calls 'the standard'

 

[posthuman]

You can not say the Law is not required.. for Loving GOD and each other is based on His 10 Commandments..

Jesus says you have that completely upside down.

He says all the Law hangs on loving God - Deuteronomy 6, not part of THE SACRED 10 - and loving one another - Leviticus 19, not part of THE SACRED 10

 

[posthuman]

We are not saved by the works of the Law but through Faith that works by love that fulfills the Law in those who walk in His Spirit.

you say everyone who worships on Sunday is in sin.
you say no one who is sin is in Christ.
you say no one who worships on Sunday is saved.
you say only those who keep 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day sabbath are saved.

so though you say we aren't saved by works of the Law, you say all are still judged by - and condemned by - works of the Law. you admit that salvation isn't attained by the Law, but you say salvation is lost unless the Law is kept.

therefore what you say is that there is no salvation; salvation that is lost by transgression isn't salvation, it's Law. it's a driver's license forever in peril of being revoked, not citizenship but a work visa, under which there is constant threat of deportation.

who will save me from this body of death?

 

[posthuman]

In other words those that are Christ Jesus' can't help themselves. It is who we are!

so for example, someone who has never heard of the Torah at all, but who receives Christ -- they will in and of themselves purely from love for God and their neighbor automatically arrive at the conclusion that every 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day they must not do any work, kindle any fire, buy or sell, handle any money, have any yeast in their house or travel?
and if this hypothetical person who only knows Christ died to redeem them from sin and rose that they might have eternal life by believing in Him ceases from his own physical activities and throws all his yeast out in the street on the wrong day, he's evil and was either never saved by faith in the first place or his salvation is revoked?

 

[LoveGodForever]

Originally Posted by trofimus

Can you give me Scriptures proving that the Sabbath day keeping is also in the New covenant? Please, do it by yourself, without copy & paste of irrelevant tuns of text from somewhere. Give me 1-3 verses you PERSONALLY see as important for the issue.

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Hello trofimus,

The scriptures are already posted they are my own work given to me by Him who loves all. You can choose top BELIEVE God's Word or not. I do not judge you.

It is between you and God because it is written; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Be careful what you choose to do however these are God's Word's not mine. UNBELIEVERS have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven. God will not force you to BELIEVE and FOLLOW him.

so you do not know three verses which are important to the issue? Jus as we suspected - copy and paste

Serious valint? There was posted 138 scriptures on the Sabbath in the NT directly in post # 2022 alone and you say post 3 scriptures? Please choose for yourself any 3 from the 138 posted in the link above and BELIEVE God's Word.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

We are not saved by the works of the Law but through Faith that works by love that fulfills the Law in those who walk in His Spirit.

Comments for you in BLUE

you say everyone who worships on Sunday is in sin.

Now posthuman, did I really say that? No I did not

you say no one who is sin is in Christ.

No I did not; God's Word says those that practicing known sin do not know him and are from the devil because they are still in their sins. These are God's Words not mine and we should BELIEVE the Word of God. Sin will keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom (1 John 3:6-7; Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:3-4)

you say no one who worships on Sunday is saved.

No I did not and I have never said such thing are you making it all up now?

you say only those who keep 7th day sabbath are saved.

Once again NO I have not said any such things

so though you say we aren't saved by works of the Law, you say all are still judged by - and condemned by - works of the Law. you admit that salvation isn't attained by the Law, but you say salvation is lost unless the Law is kept.

No I do not. All are judged by God's Law it is the standard of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS. God says that if our Faith does not have the fruit of OBEDIENCE that works by LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who walk by Faith in God's Spirit then their FAITH is dead and those practicing SIN will be LOST (James 2:18; 20; 26; Hebrews 10:26-27; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31)

This post is a shame on you saying I have said things I have NOT said whatsoever. Bearing false witness against your neighbor is breaking the 9th commandment (Exodus 20:16)

.....................................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hello friend,

Some more comments of your consideration below in BLUE

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Originally Posted by posthuman

But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying,
‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.'
(Exodus 31:13)

Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.
(Ezekiel 20:12)

Yes indeed, nice scriptures. This is of course only applicable to those who by Faith follow him through LOVE.

that is not correct. these things are concerning the Law and they were written to those under the Law.

Of course it is true it is God's Word and we must BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. Those who do NOT BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word are UNBELIEVERS and UNBELIEVERS have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven. As it is written;

NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SO EVER THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD. (Romans 3:19)

and again...

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law (Romans 2:12)

If you have sinned you are "Under the LAW" and stand guilty before God in SIN and need to seek God in repentance and forgiveness.

Exodus 31 is in fact the Law.
no where does the Law say "the Law is only applicable to those who by faith follow Him through love" -- you're giving me human tradition

I really do not know what you are talking about here as I have never said such things. If you are referring to v16-18 it is referring to the Civil Laws of Israel like the Sabbath commandment if anyone was caught openly breaking the 10 commandments they were openly put to death.

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: "The person who does these things will live by them."
(Romans 10:5) The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."(Galatians 3:12)

Not sure of your point here. You should understand by now with all l the scriptures provided that the purpose of God's Law is to give a knowledge of Good and Evil it is the standard of God's character of LOVE and the knowledge of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS. God's LAW is NOT Faith it leads us to the Savior because it shows us we are all under SIN and in need of a Savior....

NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SO EVER THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD. (Romans 3:19)

God's Law (10 commandments) is the schoolmaster the leads the sinner (Those who Believe) to the Savior and Christ is the end of the law because that is where God's Law leads the sinner to seek forgiveness to see the one who died for their sins. Faith is the victory and through LOVE God's LAW is now fulfilled in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Galatians 3:24-25; Romans 10:4; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:1-4)

Hope this helps.
.....................................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[gb9]

any verses yet? you have been asked multiple times to provide a verses ( just 1 for me ) in the N.T. that commands Christians to keep the Sabbath. if you are having trouble finding one, here is a hint...... ain't one.

 

[LoveGodForever]

any verses yet? you have been asked multiple times to provide a verses ( just 1 for me ) in the N.T. that commands Christians to keep the Sabbath. if you are having trouble finding one, here is a hint...... ain't one.

You my friend need to read your bible.....

[FONT=&quot]God's Law (10 commandments) in the New Testament[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1 You shall have no other gods before Me.
It is written: You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only you shall serve. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)

2 You must not make for yourself a carved image, a likeness of anything in heaven, on earth, or under the sea.
God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)

3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)

4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
The Sabbath [seventh day] was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, so the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; 1 Peter 2:20-22; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10 Is binding on all mankind today COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH THREAD (Linked)

5 Honour your father and mother.
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. (Ephesians 6:1; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)

6 You shall not murder.
I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)

7 You shall not commit adultery.
I say to you whoever even looks at another in lust has already committed adultery in their heart. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)

8 You shall not steal.
Neither thieves, the greedy, or drunkards and robbers will inherit the Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)

9 You shall not bear false witness.
For by your words, you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)

10 You shall not covet your neighbours possessions.
Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist of the things he possesses. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Tim. 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

You are confusing your rules and regulations with the Mosaic laws written in a book that where shadows of things to come (Colossians 2)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

[/FONT]

 

[lightbearer]

so for example, someone who has never heard of the Torah at all,

If one has not heard of the Torah (the first 5 books of the Bible) they have not been properly evangelized to and they do not have an understanding of what sin is; therefore they do not have a clue of what the Gospel is.

 

[BillG]

If one has not heard of the Torah (the first 5 books of the Bible) they have not been properly evangelized to and they do not have an understanding of what sin is; therefore they do not have a clue of what the Gospel is.

Evening brother.
I hope your day is going well.

I think for me I would say that evangelism is the good news for forgiveness of sins and if we place our faith in Jesus we are reconciled back to God.

To me that's the gospel.

Then after that we disciple the new born in how Jesus wants us to live.

Are we on the same hymn sheet?

I'm off to bed now. So if I do not reading respond that's why. Been a long day this side if the pond. And if I don't get my sleep then I'm a grumpy dump.

God bless you mate.

Bill

 

[lightbearer]

any verses yet? you have been asked multiple times to provide a verses ( just 1 for me ) in the N.T. that commands Christians to keep the Sabbath. if you are having trouble finding one, here is a hint...... ain't one.

Accept this one...

9.There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God.

As was shared the Greek word for rest here in verse 9 means a "sabbathing", a keeping of a Sabbath. Prior to this the Greek word used for rest meant to rest, to stop. That is why it was used in relation to the Gospel. God wants us to stop living our lives in sin and live our lives in Him. Rest in Him. His Rest, the Gospel. For it is He that wants to work in you both to will and do His good pleasure.

​

10.For he that is entered into his rest [received the Gospel. Which by the way enables us to be Holy and remain so, through His indwelling Spirit ], he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His.

Did you get that? Because of receiving the Gospel we can now cease from our own works as GOD did from His on the Day HE had set apart. "As is" is a direct comparison. So with that you must ask yourself how and when did God cease from his own works. The answer to that is recorded in Gen 2.... on the Seventh Day, And God did rest from all His work on the seventh day (see Hebrews Verse 4 and Genesis Chapter 2:1-3). He rested from the physical work of Creation. God is Spirit all the time. He at no time needed to or has entered into a Spiritual rest. Therefore The works mentioned in verse ten is physical not Spiritual. This we could not do prior to accepting the Gospel. But through the Spiritual rest we receive through the Gospel we can now enter to the physical rest of the Sabbath day and keep it holy as GOD had intended because we have been thus.
​

 

[posthuman]

Yes indeed

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God

Do you not believe what you, yourself, write?

you say everyone who worships on Sunday is in sin.

Now posthuman, did I really say that? No I did not

 

[LoveGodForever]

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Yes indeed Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God

Do you not believe what you, yourself, write? you say everyone who worships on Sunday is in sin.

Now posthuman, it is now clear that you either do not read or understand what is posted to you or you are bearing false witness. Which is it?

Please read carefully my second signature it does NOT say "everyone who worships on Sunday is in sin".

I have highlighted key sections in RED to maker it easier for you below....

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Maybe God is convicting you on the subject and you have interpreted it in your case as sin? You should take your time to see what is being said and pray about it. I have NOT said any of the things you have accused me of.

I do not know if this was intentional on your part or not. I will leave that between you and God.

 

[lightbearer]

Evening brother.
I hope your day is going well.

Evening to you too my friend! The day went well! I got to see and experience GOD's mighty hand.

Took a picture to document it.

​

If you are on facebook. Here is a link to my Facebook page link where I posted it. Over 300 showed up for dinner and gifts. What a great opportunity it was to serve and witness! I was actually tearing up from joy when I took it! Blessed day indeed.
I pray yours was also!

I'm off to bed now. So if I do not reading respond that's why. Been a long day this side if the pond. And if I don't get my sleep then I'm a grumpy dump.

God bless you mate.

Bill

Thank you! May HE bless us all my friend!
I still have about 4 more hours or so before I turn in. I probably won't be on here all night. I have to spend some more time with the family.

In regards to your inquiry I have a question. How can we receive forgiveness from sin without knowing what sin is and what it is to live righteous?

You know that the Disciples taught the Gospel through the Spirit through the Torah, Psalms, Proverbs, and the books of the prophets.

Proof of that is in their quoting of them in Paul's, John's, and Peter's writings. Of course now we have the New Testament and use it also. But If we are evangelizing without using that which Testifies of Christ we are not discipling in the manner of the Disciples. We are not making Disciples.

 

[posthuman]

' i don't know, but I've been told
If the horse don't pull,
you've got to carry the load!
I don't know whose back's that strong?
Maybe find out, before too long.... '

Who will save me from this body of death?

 

[posthuman]

FYI, since it's Sunday, obviously post is at work, and yesterday was his day off. So.