I know can you imagine the fallacy of every argument he makes.....it is not that we love him, but that he loved us and CALLED US.....where does it say that he WINS our trust like a bingo payer wins game 19 t the local country club bingo game......
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I know can you imagine the fallacy of every argument he makes.....it is not that we love him, but that he loved us and CALLED US.....where does it say that he WINS our trust like a bingo payer wins game 19 t the local country club bingo game......
how was His side opened and His blood poured out?
by my sovereign free will? did it surprise God? was it by accident?
How do we know who's right? Do we know by their doctrine? Sometimes, if that doctrine is completely messed up, it's obvious.
But we don't have to know if the doctrine's right or not to be able to determine its validity.
Jesus told us how to determine someone's beliefs are right simply by their attitudes. The way they act.
Matt 7:15“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
A godly person will have a peaceful, gentle spirit, while the ungodly person who lives by false doctrine doesn't have the Spirit of God in them to strengthen their self-control, or help them watch their mouth.
It becomes rather obvious when people shoot off their mouths with arrogance & pride, for such isn't the fruit of the Spirit.
The righteous bear the fruit of the Spirit, and the wicked the fruits that Satan produces to spread disinformation and lies, while bringing destruction in the lives of the righteous.
Just watch who's attacking who with no Biblical evidence, and wicked will reveal themselves.
Watch carefully.
But we don't have to know if the doctrine's right or not to be able to determine its validity.
Jesus told us how to determine someone's beliefs are right simply by their attitudes. The way they act.
Matt 7:15“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
A godly person will have a peaceful, gentle spirit, while the ungodly person who lives by false doctrine doesn't have the Spirit of God in them to strengthen their self-control, or help them watch their mouth.
It becomes rather obvious when people shoot off their mouths with arrogance & pride, for such isn't the fruit of the Spirit.
The righteous bear the fruit of the Spirit, and the wicked the fruits that Satan produces to spread disinformation and lies, while bringing destruction in the lives of the righteous.
Just watch who's attacking who with no Biblical evidence, and wicked will reveal themselves.
Watch carefully.
Sealed:
σφραγίζω
sphragizō
sfrag-id'-zo
From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.
Total KJV occurrences: 26
then let's look at this:
Dan 6:17 And a stone was brought and laid upon the mouth of the den; and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the signet ring of his princes that the agreement concerning Daniel might not be changed.
and then this..
[h=1]G4973[/h]σφραγίς
sphragis
sfrag-ece'
Probably strengthened from G5420; a signet (as fencing in or protecting from misappropriation); by implication the stamp impressed (as a mark of privacy, or genuineness), literally or figuratively: - seal.
So then the word misappropriation got my attention. We are protected from misappropriation by being sealed.
and then saw this definition...
In law, misappropriation is the unauthorized use of another's name, likeness, or identity without that person's permission, resulting in harm to that person.
Scripture states:
Rom 8:29 For unto those whom he knew beforehand, he also marked out beforehand the way that they might be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
and sealed by...
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, hearing the word of truth, the gospel of your saving health; in whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of the promise,
Whose work is it then? We cannot conform ourselves to the image of Jesus, it is done by Holy Spirit working.
We are stamped with the authority of the King, by His ring of approval, chosen, and kept secure. Notice security? Fenced in, not as restraint, but like a school room is how I am picturing this. Holy Spirit teaching us the proper use of the authority of His name, and moving out of understanding His character, so that we don't misrepresent Him in an improper manner. Misappropriation.
See it?
AMEN brother...well...what can you expect from one who devalues the Holy Spirit's work to a bowl of left over lasagna......and his "make the laws up as we go" cracker jack theology..........nothing true for sure...
i'm having trouble with more than one aspect of the whole 'salvation is like lasagna bought from stuff-mart' analogy, myself.
great post, I want to add something to it, the seal is spoken of here also;
2 Timothy 2:19, "However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal*, “ יהוה knows those who are His, Let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness.”
Strong's Concordance *"seal"is word #G4973 - sphragis: a seal, a signet, Original Word: σφραγίς, ῖδος, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: sphragis, Phonetic Spelling: (sfrag-ece'), Short Definition: a signet-ring, impression of a seal, the proof, Definition: a seal, signet ring, the impression of a seal, that which the seal attests, the proof.
The word “unrighteousness” is word #G93 ἀδικία – adikia, ad-ee-kee'-ah, (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charter, life or act):—iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.
We may be being kept from using His name and identity without moving out of being one with Him too. Presumption?
Our works being without substance?
Our works being without substance?
Phil 2:
13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Great verse! It's wonderful that God works in us both to want to do and to do His good pleasure. What's your question about it?
John 12:
39) Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40) He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
John was quoting Isaiah. It was a Hebrew way of speaking, an idiom. God allowed those things to happen because of the choices the people made. The reality is that they blinded themselves by choosing not to see or try to understand. God wants people to believe, and be saved (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9). He cannot both want all men to be saved while at the same time be blinding people so they cannot believe. He is not capricious, or contradictory. God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
Jer 29:
19) Because they have not hearkened to my words, saith the LORD, which I sent unto them by my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them; but ye would not hear, saith the LORD.
No, Hiz. It was an addon to my post defining the word misappropriation. We were posting at the same time, and I didn't see yours until after I posted that particular one.
Sorry.
having this seal, its like you will know them by their fruits or he who says I know Him;
2 Timothy 2:19, "However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal*, “ יהוה knows those who are His, Let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:15-20, “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]
It not a maybe or if I feel like it, He changes the heart in a way that can not be faked, either there is a heart change or there is not. I could add verses to this but how is this even something that is debated, thoise in Messiah don't walk in an unrighteous manner,. period.
No, Hiz. It was an addon to my post defining the word misappropriation. We were posting at the same time, and I didn't see yours until after I posted that particular one.
Sorry.
No worries! that is why I didnt understand it
while we're here i just want to say that i don't see the issue of God's sovereign election vs. man's free will as anything like a clearly settled or understood matter. it's a great and wonderful mystery of His creation and His working.
you'll see me coming down on the side of predestination much more frequently, largely because it's far easier to poke holes in the idea that we somehow provoke Him to save us: predestination is literally written in the scriptures in several places, while the counter-argument relies heavily on human 'common-sense' and ((i'll readily agree quite logical)) indirect implication.
the idea that man has no agency of his own is a tough sell, but it's interesting that what He asks us to do in order to redeem us is to set whatever free will we have aside as worthless, and submit to His own will. He is God, and He will do all His will - amen!
anyone can call me a calvinist if that helps them arrange things in their mind. one of these days i may even actually read what Calvin wrote, and see for myself if it turns out i am.
you'll see me coming down on the side of predestination much more frequently, largely because it's far easier to poke holes in the idea that we somehow provoke Him to save us: predestination is literally written in the scriptures in several places, while the counter-argument relies heavily on human 'common-sense' and ((i'll readily agree quite logical)) indirect implication.
the idea that man has no agency of his own is a tough sell, but it's interesting that what He asks us to do in order to redeem us is to set whatever free will we have aside as worthless, and submit to His own will. He is God, and He will do all His will - amen!
anyone can call me a calvinist if that helps them arrange things in their mind. one of these days i may even actually read what Calvin wrote, and see for myself if it turns out i am.
P
PHart
Guest
I asked you to show me where 'believing' is a work of the works gospel. Don't waste your time looking for it....it doesn't exist. But so many people here are convinced that your believing is on the side of the works that can not justify.
We do not meet in a church building, but a venue that definitely allows food and drinks in the main area. Most people would not eat the cupcakes there, though, but have them in the foyer, where I put them out. It's just a little treat for the adults to have with coffee, and the kids really like them, tooNo food or drinks allowed in the Sactuary, Pastor said so.
This verse is understood in two different ways, one by Calvinists and one by people who believe rightly
Calvinists understand it as it is the work of God that a person can believe at all. IOW, He makes them believe.
People who believe rightly understand it as when people want to do the work of God, they determine to believe on Jesus Christ.
How I define this is by Jesus speaking here who says, the work that is the works of God is believing what I say. If we believe, we will act on the belief.
I think I answered this in the post to Shrume. I'm sorry we have caused anger in you.
P
PHart
Guest
It's clear that some things, like OSAS, are exclusively Calvinistic. So I refer to various doctrines as being Calvinisitic in thought and origin because they don't exist outside of Calvinism. And because I am aware of so many people who want to subscribe to the bigger points of Calvinism without being called Calvinist. But in my book, if a person wants to defend OSAS and predestination as in 'you were purposely created a believer and nothing can change that' then you are Calvy. There's really no way of getting around that.
anyone can call me a calvinist if that helps them arrange things in their mind. one of these days i may even actually read what Calvin wrote, and see for myself if it turns out i am.