Not By Works

[Seohce]

Your logic proves you really do not know what you are talking about...nor have you read anything said by most in this thread and or you have willfully rejected what has been said or are just blind to the facts..........ONLY those who are not really saved would say the things you say and or espouse......open your eyes man.....salvation stands alone by faith based upon grace as a GIFT that cannot be earned, maintained or kept by any work of man....AND, had you taken the time to read or listen nd not go to seed and off on a tangent without the facts you can clearly see that ALL who have stated the belief found in BOLD have also said that we are saved UNTO works and any fruit or works are the RESULT OF THE SLVATION AND FAITH ONE ALREADY POSSESSES IN CHRIST as a LIVING SACRIFICE and it is JESUS who does the works through us.....

TAKE time to actually understand what we believe and state before you speak without the facts......

Then why do you reject this passage/teaching by our Lord Jesus and rejects obedience to the Law? As it was written, "WITH MAN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE BUT WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

DO YOU STILL REJECT THIS PASSAGE AND EVERY OTHER SCRIPTURE THAT WOULD COMPROMISE YOUR PERSONAL AGENDAS OR PROFIT? SINCE YOU CLAIM THAT WORKS ARE THE DIRECT RESULT OF THE SALVATION YOU ALREADY POSSESS, CAN YOU NOW OBEY THE LAW WITHOUT BEING UNDER IT BUT BECAUSE OF LOVE AND OBEDIENCE TO GOD THE FATHER AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND BEING SAVED ETERNALLY AS YOU CLAIM, CAN YOU NOW CLARIFY BY ANSWERING WITH A YES OR NO IF YOU ARE STILL A SINNER?

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 2:15-17, “Do not love the world, nor the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world: the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passes away, with the lust that is in it; but he who does the will of YHWH abides forever.”

 

[stonesoffire]

Hebrews 3:3:18-19, “And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief."

Hiz, you do understand that those who have entered into His rest (completion of His work of salvation) are those of us who believe (obey His Word by faith) that we sit down in His rest with Him in heavenly realms, and out of this union, follow His lead?


He speaks His specific Word to our personal situation, and if it includes a do? We do. It's the new and Living way of obedience to His commands. He has never commanded me though in a forceful voice unless it was danger.

He did tell me one time though, "I have no one else here to do this".


Just posting a scripture, and a negative one at that without a comment, could be interpreted wrongly.

 

[PJW]

If you believed in Jesus would you not believe his inspired word

Sure do.

IF we say that WE have NO SIN, WE are deceived and the truth is not in US.

That is true...if we are walking in darkness.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
[/FONT]Arm yourself with the same mind!

"[FONT=&quot]Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

Do you really feel that Peter and Paul were unbelievers?

This again solidifies my belief that sinners are unbelievers.
Awake to righteousness.
[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

You said the word hypocrite wasn't in Galations 2. I have several times showed that it in fact is.
You try and obfuscate the truth by saying the KJV version doesn't say hypocrite, but dissemble.
I showed you the Greek word, the SAME word Jesus used of the Pharisees, to mean HYPOCRITE was in fact there!
THAT is commiting the willful sins of lying and pride.

As the word "hypocrisy" is used in the KJV, by Jesus no less, why didn't the writers use "hypocrisy" in Galatians too?
Unless the intent wasn't to accuse the apostle of sin, as your version of the bible does?

 

[PJW]

The bolded fits your false dogma well....and salvation is spoken of in all three tenses....but of course you reject that because you are holy, righteous and sinless, but do not yet possess salvation....
Peter proves you wrong..."[FONT=&quot]For [/FONT]the[FONT=&quot] time is come that judgment must [/FONT]begin[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]at[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]the[FONT=&quot][/FONT]house[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]of[FONT=&quot] God: and if it first [/FONT]begin[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]at[FONT=&quot] us, what shall [/FONT]the[FONT=&quot]end be [/FONT]of[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]the[FONT=&quot]m that obey not [/FONT]the[FONT=&quot] gospel [/FONT]of[FONT=&quot] God?" (1 Peter 4:7)
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Jesus said..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of [/FONT]judgment[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" (Matt 12:36)
I wonder why you don't believe Jesus' words about the final day?
I suspect that to believe Jesus, would doom the false doctrine of possessing salvation already.
[/FONT]

Written unto believers---->Where sin abounds, grace did much more abound. SHALL we continue in sin since GRACE ABOUNDS.......

Too bad you failed to include the next verse..."[FONT=&quot]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom 6:2)
[/FONT]I guess you are not yet "dead to sin".

The very logic of these verses proves your false....if believers did not sin then these verse are a complete waste of time and or ignorantly inspired by JESUS unto believers...

You have shown clearly that you love...a man's doctrine above all else.
2 [FONT=&quot]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

This guy, like the Pharisee of old, will believe nothing scriptural that proves his error or false stance.....he will go down in flames with his sinless perfectionist I am not saved yet doctrine because he has no faith in JESUS, but rather trusts into some Pharisee(ical) I am righteous and above sin......no true repentance and or understanding of the out bounding grace of God afforded believers when they fail, fall short and sin.

It surprised me you see you mention "true repentance".
A true "turn from" sin would produce...one like me.

 

[PJW]

For ALL have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.. Romans 3:23
There are none righteous, not even one.. Likewise, none are sinless, not a single one..

Don't you believe that Jesus was righteous?
I do, and so are all those "in Christ".

That, and other verses, were written well before the time of Christ, rebirth, repentance from sin, and the gift of the Holy Ghost.
There are righteous men on earth now.
Men free of sin.

 

[PJW]

FOR the DECEIVED SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS

We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

a. Believe they can lose salvation
b. Believe they must do good to keep it
c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

Daniel was a righteous saved child of God....anyone doubt that? NO
John was a righteous mas whom Jesus loved and an apostle...anyone doubt that? NO
Paul was a righteous man who was saved and wrote almost half the N.T...anyone doubt that? NO

Notice their view under inspiration.

For those who say the saved don't sin......or won't sin.......or are without sin......!

DANIEL
Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,

And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

JOHN
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

PAUL
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!

I know that righteousness and a life free from sin hold no value to you, but you really should change your "title" to "FOR THE OBEDIENT"

 

[PJW]

Isaiah was a great prophet of God.....He, under inspiration, wrote a 66 chapter book of the bible....the 1st 39 chapters correlate to the O.T. and the last 27 seem to correlate to the N.T. He was a great man of God.....look how he viewed himself in the 6th chapter of the book.

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

Thank God we live under a new covenant now.
One with the gifts of repentance from sin, rebirth, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. The ability to walk in light instead of in darkness, and in the Spirit, instead of in the flesh.
Not to mention knowledge that the "truth" can set you free from committing sin. (John 8:32-34)

 

[PJW]

Ezra was a great scribe who was commissioned by Artaxerxes to teach the people in Israel the Mosaic Law and was in the service of God in the O.T. His ministry confronted the people and their sin.....he also contributed to the bible under inspiration. Note what the bible has to say about EZRA....

Ezra was praying and confessing. He was crying and bowing down in front of God’s Temple.

Do you know there is a new covenant now?

 

[PJW]

The book of James even speaks to this.....notice what he states....

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

James recognized that it was the "righteous" that could pray for others.
Why can't you?
Oh ya, you don't believe there are any.

 

[PJW]

And now that you have revealed your good works on a public forum, they won't mean squat to God..Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't God say to keep secret the good things we do for others?

I answered a direct question in hope that the poster had something he could glorify God with.
I don't remember him having anything...
As for them meaning anything to God, I know better.

 

[PJW]

Look at the words of PETER......a man that walked on water, walked with Jesus, had power over demons and the ability to heal and raise the dead....and Peter was saved and immersed ALREADY when he stated this....after Jesus told him where to cast his net.......and it was filled....!

Too bad you don't know about the new testament.
You're living in the past, where no man could remain obedient all the time.
Your "slant" on Paul is simple character assassination.

 

[PJW]

You gotta remember, Dave, some here cannot admit when they sin, or even that they DO sin..However, I can humbly admit that I sin occasionally..because I'm human and although saved, I AM still a sinner.

I hope the day comes soon wherein you start to hate your sins and start looking for the "truth" that can free you from them. (John 8:32-34)

 

[Magenta]

James recognized that it was the "righteous" that could pray for others.
Why can't you?
Oh ya, you don't believe there are any.

It would be more honest, and certainly more accurate, to say that the people you oppose believe they have no righteousness of their own, but rather put on the righteousness of Christ through faith.

 

[PJW]

It worked for those who had a living hope that goes beyond human hope. For who hopes from something they already have for a micro second and then crucify Christ over and over?

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Are you perfect?

Yes, I am.
I am reborn of God's seed, and have His Spirit in me.
Are you perfect too?

 

[PJW]

I am not talking about this body of death it is still aging to show it is corruptible in a decaying process leading to death and destruction, returning the lifeless spiritless dust it was formed from..

He promises us a new incorruptible body. Is your's incorruptible or are you still aging?

"His" body-vessel, which once was mine, was quickened (made alive) by His Spirit.
[FONT=&quot]"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." (Rom 8:11)
I still await my glorious body, like Paul, in Phi 3:12, 21.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

I know a few people who give to food banks who are not believers.
I know a few people who serve in night shelters who are not believers.
My next door neighbour feeds our budgies when we go on holiday. She is not a believer.

Not one person I can recall has ever bragged about it.
What makes you any better than them, given you brag about it and they don’t.

You can read as much as the bible you want in public places but if you lack love for people and it’s outworking it means diddly-squat, nadda, zero. Nothing but a clanging cymbal.

Its a shame you put loving reading the word God to people rather than actually loving people.
A real shame indeed.

I answered a direct question, in hopes that the poster would also have an instance where he brought some glory to God.

 

[PJW]

I think even females have "male" hearts, or how could female Christians have circumcised hearts?

I pray that you will grow in grace and knowledge...soon.