Not By Works

[AbigailZeke]

This is from the sermon I'm listening to right now.

Hebrews 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Jesus purged sins once and for all. Otherwise, He would not sit down.

 

[AbigailZeke]

The word purged is also used in here.

Hebrews 10:2

For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

I'm not familiar with Greek, but the original word for purge:

καθαρισμὸν katharismon (Hebrews 1:3)
κεκαθαρισμένους kekatharismenous (Hebrews 10:2)

Further proof that Jesus died for all sins for all time and so it's not anymore, by our works.

 

[loveme1]

Hebrews 2:18

18 [FONT=&quot]For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


Succour is to assist and support...

This comes to mind:


Matthew 26

[/FONT]39And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
[FONT=&quot]



The Lord’s Prayer is so powerful.... May all in Christ make it a daily prayer.


Being lead of the Spirit of Christ who is our Victory.

1 Corinthians 15



[/FONT]54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
[FONT=&quot]

Verse 58... the mindset of the Spirit indeed.









[/FONT]

 

[loveme1]

Anyone who is put off by PJW I would say to remember that Lord is giving believers feedback and warnings in Revelation.. Read Believe and Be strengthened by Him my dears.

We can not tell the Lord we are worthy to walk with Him in white.. or that we have the right to the Tree of life .. no we can believe He is the Saviour the author and finisher of our Faith when we have the ear to hear rather than translate ourselves as if we have a GOD given right rather than a Undeserved Gift to be Treasured and be grateful for always.

Praise GOD in Christ always and forever.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 4:4-5, “For[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], for He Who judges me is [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

 

[Rosemaryx]

Firstly I commend you in that you say “If I can do it, anybody can do it”

We can do all things in Christ.

My contention is and I have said it before to you is that you come across and judgemental towards those who acknowledge that they do sin, and ignore that they don’t want to sin and if they do they come before God and ask for help.

You do not offer a life-ring but a millstone.

You cause others to stumble in their faith and doubt they beleive because they are honest and because they acknowledge sin in their lives you call them servants of sin and therefore not saved.

You have said when you were saved from that point you have not comitted one single sin.

I asked you if everyone in the chruch you went felt the same and you said yes.

I further asked you if you would tell us what church you went to and if it had a website would you post a link. I still can’t see and answer to that. If I have missed it please repost it.

There is only one person who walked this earth and was sinless and I am sorry to burst your bubble BUT it is not you or the fellow members who claim the same in the church you go to.

IT WAS JESUS.

Yes you will come back at me and others who refute your position with scripture to back up your position with scripture and then boast about how great you are and condemn others as servants of sin and children of the devil.

Can you not see there is no love in what you say?

Anyway I await your barrage back at me and condemnig me.

But just so you know I will do everything I can to come against your condemnation that you heap on others and will love and protect them just like Jesus did and still does.

You will see that speck of dust in your neighbours eye a lot better if you take the telephone pole out of your own eye first.

I must spread some rep around...xox...

 

[posthuman]

The word purged is also used in here.

Hebrews 10:2

For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

I'm not familiar with Greek, but the original word for purge:

καθαρισμὸν katharismon (Hebrews 1:3)
κεκαθαρισμένους kekatharismenous (Hebrews 10:2)

Further proof that Jesus died for all sins for all time and so it's not anymore, by our works.

"blessed assurance" ↑

Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and their oath serves as a confirmation to end all argument. So when God wanted to make the unchanging nature of His purpose very clear to the heirs of the promise, He guaranteed it with an oath. Thus by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be strongly encouraged.
We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and steadfast. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus our forerunner has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.
(Hebrews 6:16-20)​

 

[posthuman]

And being made perfect, He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him
(Hebrews 5:9)

This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you
(John 15:12)
​

God gave us this, and put us in an existence with a life full of interactions with many other living things, to love them - other people who are quite obviously not without sin. how can loving them be contingent on their perfect works? so if we are to love them as Yah loves us, does we love them or not?? no one who loves seeks evil for those they love, but who loves perfectly?
who is like Him? He is perfect!
what is perfect love?

it keeps no record of wrongs
(1 Corinthians 13:5)
​

 

[MadebyHim]

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[h=1][/h] 1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;[SUP]4 [/SUP]And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3

 

[blue_ladybug]

.................

 

[PHart]

"blessed assurance" ↑

Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and their oath serves as a confirmation to end all argument. So when God wanted to make the unchanging nature of His purpose very clear to the heirs of the promise, He guaranteed it with an oath. Thus by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be strongly encouraged.
We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and steadfast. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus our forerunner has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.
(Hebrews 6:16-20)​

Our believing is what gives us the security of Christ in salvation.

Our works are what give us the assurance that we are secure in Christ in salvation.

The person who says he's saved but who is continuing in his old life and has no lifestyle of righteous living is the one who has no assurance that he has the security of Christ's ministry working on his behalf in heaven. He can not know that he is safe in Christ because he does not display the "things that accompany salvation" (Hebrews 6:9 NASB).

That's why countless threads have been started about wondering if people like King Saul are saved. We don't know because he, and others like him, did not have the life of right living to give anybody assurance that they had a saving relationship with God.

It's impossible to be "convinced of better things concerning you" (Hebrews 6:9 NASB) if anybody says they are saved but don't live the life of Christ they claim to have.

 

[notmyown]

Our believing is what gives us the security of Christ in salvation.

Our works are what give us the assurance that we are secure in Christ in salvation.

neonomianism

 

[SovereignGrace]

.................

View attachment 175717

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[blue_ladybug]

I tried repping you for this, but the system won't let me. But you're on my list.

 

[PHart]

neonomianism

Neonomianism (from Greek, meaning 'new law') in Christian theology is the doctrine that the Gospel is a new law, the requirements of which humanity fulfills by faith and repentance, most often associated with the theology of Richard Baxter (1615–1691). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonomianism


​

Salvation has always been through faith:

"30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works." (Romans 9:30-32 NASB)

The Israelites themselves are the ones who erroneously thought the law was given to earn salvation through works. And the church thinks the law was an old way to get saved replaced by a new way to get saved. The law was never a way to get saved. Salvation has never been through works. It has always been through faith expressed in repentance.

As Paul puts it, "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6 NASB). But so many in the church think it's "faith working through nothing", largely because they have been taught that to make works the necessary byproduct of the faith that justifies is to make salvation by works.

 

[notmyown]

Neonomianism (from Greek, meaning 'new law') in Christian theology is the doctrine that the Gospel is a new law, the requirements of which humanity fulfills by faith and repentance, most often associated with the theology of Richard Baxter (1615–1691). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonomianism


​

Salvation has always been through faith:

"30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works." (Romans 9:30-32 NASB)

The Israelites themselves are the ones who erroneously thought the law was given to earn salvation through works. And the church thinks the law was an old way to get saved replaced by a new way to get saved. The law was never a way to get saved. Salvation has never been through works. It has always been through faith expressed in repentance.

As Paul puts it, "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6 NASB). But so many in the church think it's "faith working through nothing", largely because they have been taught that to make works the necessary byproduct of the faith that justifies is to make salvation by works.

nope. this neonomianism. https://www.gotquestions.org/neonomianism.html

necessary byproduct? to show to whom? to prove what?

you make the free offer of grace and salvation a work. and what's sad is, you don't see it.
you don't see that when God sovereignly saves His people, He gives us new hearts with a will to obey Him.
it is genuinely expressed in faith and repentance, which God gives. it turns our hearts outward, to see what we can do for our neighbor. that's where our works should be, don't you agree?

this is the assurance of faith in the precious promises of God, all of which are yes! and amen! in Jesus!
i honestly pray He shows you how faithful HE is.

 

[notmyown]

oh! and this:
Neonomianism in Christian theology, literally meaning "new law," is the doctrine that the Gospel presents a new law, the requirements of which are faith and repentance. This view is most often associated with the theology of Richard Baxter (1615-1691).

Opponents believe neonomianism changes the free Gospel offer into an understanding of salvation by works; i.e., humanity is not saved by Christ but by their obedience to Christ through their faith and repentance.

you left that part out.


http://www.theopedia.com/neonomianism

 

[PHart]

Then one day after 30 years of this struggle.
Waking up with guilt every night at the same time asking God to kill me cause I couldn’t kill me myself even though I devised plans to do so.

I woke up and thought well I have woken up there must be a reason.
Even thinking that I also thought I’m gonna gamble today.

I said to God what’s the purpose of today if I’m gonna gamble and go to bed tonight in torture?

Then he said to me “This is the purpose, the issue is not that you gamble the issue is why you gamble. You have wasted your years trying to appease me, be good, earn my love. Truth is Bill you have no idea what love is about. I know your past I know your upbringing, you never knew your dad, your mother threw you out at a young age, you suffer beatings, you were fostered and your foster dad sexually abused you. You do anything you can to be liked and loved and accepted but you can’t do it.
Truth is you can’t accept being loved for whom you are. You have so much pain and hurt and rejection and every time you pray to me you only focus on trying to earn my love”

Then he said to me “Do you want to know what I think about you, are you willing to let me heal you of the past to give you a future, trust me.

I did and it was a painful process and God healed me.

Not gambled since.

I don't know you well enough to say for sure, but I think you should mark that day on your calendar because that's the day you were born again.

Jesus talks about the necessity to be born, not just of the waters of repentance, but of the Spirit, too (John 3:5). People make a decision to follow Christ and so they, naturally, think 'stop doing what you're doing wrong and do right,now'. Well, that's good, but that's actually only the water part of salvation--the baptismal repentance part of salvation.

What is necessary above and beyond that is that you are also born from above, by the Spirit. That's when you receive the power of God's grace by his Spirit that teaches us "to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:12 NASB).

When a person comes to the end of themselves and falls on God's mercy and grace, that is when that new birth occurs. That is when they receive power over sin and are changed. That's when laws and ordinances and statues have done their work of showing a person that it is impossible to get from here to there except they be forgiven their sins and given the Holy Spirit and brought near to God that way, not through trying to do right, or even wanting to do right.

I think what I am trying to say is that a genuine believer will not make an excuse for sin, including habitual sin.
To me a genuine believer cannot believe all is well if they struggle with sin.

I agree. The person who excuses his sin and accepts it in the name of grace is probably not born again. In my heart, if I knew a person like that I would not consider them a brother or sister.

But I would be careful to qualify 'struggle' first. Because certainly our struggle with sin continues after being born again, just not in a way that we are completely defeated in that struggle. Utter defeat and surrender to accepting sin is most likely a sign of unbelief.

If however they do especially with the problem I had there is a reason for the cause.
The reason needs to be dealt with, when it is cause will be dealt with.

sorry if I have digressed.

No digression at all. We need to talk about these things among ourselves. As I say, many people in the church seem to be relating to God in a 'water only' kind of relationship but who think they are born again (again, not saying for sure this was the case for you).

They lack power, and are still stuck in a Romans 7 kind of relationship with God and haven't moved into Romans 8, yet. But worst of all, the present church is teaching so many that Romans 7 alone is a legitimate saving relationship with God, which it is not. The ironic thing being, that's actually the works gospel they rail against--relating to God in a quasi, unsuccessful repentance only kind of relationship. And they call that 'spiritual'. They call that being born again. Which it is not.

 

[PHart]

nope. this neonomianism. https://www.gotquestions.org/neonomianism.html

necessary byproduct? to show to whom? to prove what?

Don't you know the passages about works as the evidence of saving faith, and how we gain assurance (not security) that we have believed unto salvation by what we do? I run into this all the time--people in the church who have no idea these passages even exist, and when they do they can't see them.

you make the free offer of grace and salvation a work.
and what's sad is, you don't see it.

Not me. You are just hearing it that way. Trust me.

you don't see that when God sovereignly saves His people, He gives us new hearts with a will to obey Him.
it is genuinely expressed in faith and repentance, which God gives. it turns our hearts outward, to see what we can do for our neighbor. that's where our works should be, don't you agree?

That's what I'm saying. Works are the necessary EVIDENCE of salvation, without which only proves you don't really believe unto salvation.

 

[notmyown]

Don't you know the passages about works as the evidence of saving faith, and how we gain assurance (not security) that we have believed unto salvation by what we do? I run into this all the time--people in the church who have no idea these passages even exist, and when they do they can't see them.

Not me. You are just hearing it that way. Trust me.

That's what I'm saying. Works are the necessary EVIDENCE of salvation, without which only proves you don't really believe unto salvation.

tsk tsk, judging another's stance before God.

if i have misjudged you, i ask your pardon. it's just all your talk of 'continuing to believe' that sounds to me like bootstrap theology? as if we could drum that up in and of ourselves. we cannot, you know. it's a work God does in His people and He will not fail.