Not By Works

[posthuman]

Serious question, PJW - have you read Romans?

Not 'have you browsed it or read a couple isolated verses that were printed in a church bulletin' - have you actually read it? How familiar with the progression of argument and conclusion in it are you?


asking because multiple times now you accused a direct quote from it of blasphemy against Christ, a quote which you asserted should be worded differently than it actually is in every translation, with no scholarly controversy at all, and you haven't shown the grace to admit you were wrong about that. So i suspect that you don't really know what Romans says, actually? Maybe? That would explain part of why a lot of what some of us are saying to you seems to be going right past you instead of in your ears, i think.

 

[PJW]

You brought up Stephen as a good example to look at, so it's not a derail at all.

If you don't know whether the accusation that grace = licence to sin has ever been levelled and thoroughly answered before you came along, dude, you've got catching up to do.

What was the conclusion?
I've never heard that grace is the license to sin, but I have heard the argument that OSAS is a license to sin.

I can certainly explain what i mean when i say that if the question of 'why shouldn't we just keep sinning' doesn't arise, that you probably aren't presenting the gospel accurately, but thus far in our conversation it doesn't appear you've comprehend anything i've written, so could we try to get to that point first?

I would suggest that anyone who asked if they could keep on sinning, wasn't listening to anything aimed at pleasing God.

Let's get to the point you purpose.

 

[PJW]

LOL
I've been suspecting that this was all about PJW declaring the right to throw stones...
... and there it is.
Thank God for His Spirit! 'they struck me, but I was not hurt; they beat me, but i did not know'
Amen

LOL.
The folks who are like Jesus don't punish anyone.
His judgement will be manifested on the last day.
But, thankfully, God is gracious and patient, not willing that any should perish.
There is time yet to convince folks that they can live without offending God with their sins.
But how much time remains to be seen.

 

[PJW]

Not to mention he totally misquotes JESUS....JESUS did not say those who DON'T COMMIT SIN.....he said those who are WITHOUT SIN...big difference...especially when you say you DON'T SIN

More semantics?

 

[PJW]

Ha it's apparently not 'sin' for him to change the words of scripture, though he says it's sin on my part to call him out on it.

?

My apologies BTW for botched words in my posts recently, been browsing through my phone @ work, fat fingers and autocorrect etc.

I hope your boss is OK with your use of his time.
I hope you are here on your break or lunch.

 

[PJW]

I am not a betting man, BUT THAT STATEMENT IS A SURE THING TO BE WRONG!
Galatians 5:4 (CSBBible)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ;
you have fallen from grace.

Do you think that those in Christ are still under the Mosaic Law?
As it is those who are outside of Christ that still commit sin, it is they who are still under law.
It is written..."Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Rom 3:20)
By the law is the knowledge of their transgressions.

 

[PJW]

Wow! That has to be the most prideful arrogant post I've ever read here!

When I blatantly caught him in a lie, regarding Scripture, and showed him the word he said didn't exist in Scripture in fact did, and he was so bursting with pride as to not admit his sin, I thought that was beyond arrogant.

But imagine thinking he is so perfect that he is able to cast stones at others!!
This is a truly sick and twisted individual.

What you "caught" was the difference between versions of the bible.

 

[posthuman]

Perhaps it is your use of such odd "pictures" that throws me?

i don't think it's that odd. The scripture calls the word of God a sword - seems wise to me to learn how to wield one properly, else we pick it up and be a danger both to ourselves and our friends, but pose little threat to an enemy who is quite well practiced.
& applying understanding of this world to spiritual things? That should be natural to us all - yet i thank God, because i entreated Him for understanding, and He is faithful.


But yeah, you're right, i'm definitely a weirdo.

 

[PJW]

You Know....the following truths really hammer home the struggle that can be found in a believer between the born again spirit and the still fallen nature in the flesh when one is immature, not fully transformed and or having a moment of weakness....

Don't you mean "born again spirit and unborn again spirit"?
Those born of God cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)

The spirit is indeed willing but the flesh is weak
James and the two souled man (double souled)
Paul doing what he said he would not do and not doing what he said he would do
Peter doing the exact opposite of what he said he would do
David after God's own heart and his moment with Bathsheba and Uriah
etc.....

I recognize all the pre-resurrection examples, but not James' two soul man.
Care to elaborate?

 

[PJW]

Especially since JESUS made that STATEMENT, because HE KNOW NOBODY WAS WITHOUT SIN.

Even Himself?
That's what you signify.

 

[posthuman]

?


I hope your boss is OK with your use of his time.
I hope you are here on your break or lunch.

i have a lot of downtime. These days i am working under a contract to monitor & control a bevy of robots; so long as the robots behave, they work while i wait. With good programming and set-up, there's no reason I should not be idle. They are good droids; they beep for me if they need me.

Thanks for your concern. It's funny to me, and i was just telling a friend the same last week in fact, how that i am paid so much more for doing so much less mental or physical 'work' than i did in previous positions - but a lot of effort went in to the front end of this and now i enjoy the 'rest' that comes from ceasing those labors. See an analogy....?

 

[PJW]

Is that really accurate that they tried to be righteous by their own works? Was it not God who wrote the commandments on tablets of stone? And gave Moses wisdom to judge and write instruction? They were commanded to follow. But, they failed. So blood sacrifices were instituted for covering of those failures.

Sure.
The law was the "works" Paul had to keep writing against.
Not the things written in our hearts, but the circumcision and dietary laws for instance.

Sacrifices are about an exchange of innocence for evil. So they understood that they could not be righteous by law or works.

Agreed.
But the Pharisees and Sadducees weren't buying it.

 

[PJW]

'grieving' is not the same as 'taking offense' - there is a reason that many words exist to express similar sentiments; it is because those sentiments are similar but not identical.

Wouldn't the outcome of the offense-grieving be the definer of the intent?
God allowed Israel to be destroyed when they "grieved" Him.
God will allow those not in the book of life to be sent to the lake of fire for their offenses.
It is just semantics.

That said, i do understand the desire to argue about words rather than admit fault ((because that's in my flesh too)). i call it sin, though i reckon you would certainly choose a different word that's perhaps more descriptive but probably lacks any connotation of error.

By the law is the knowledge of sin, so I would exhort you to turn from sin, and get reborn of seed that cannot commit sin.
Crucify the flesh, and get raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The next verse tells what happens when you do..."For he that is dead is freed from sin".

 

[PJW]

Just quoting Romans 3:23 dude. Take it up with the Holy Spirit that breathed the words.

Paul used these OT, (before Christ), words to make the Jews realize that they too needed a Savior.
It wasn't to be used to deny that NT, reborn men can't live without sin.

Srsly, you think Everlasting God is lumped in with that statement?? Please, go read all of Romans 5 or 6 times, and then get back to us.

Of course not, but to use the scripture improperly infers that even Jesus committed sin.

NOT all men fall short of the glory of God.

 

[PJW]

Serious question, PJW - have you read Romans?
Not 'have you browsed it or read a couple isolated verses that were printed in a church bulletin' - have you actually read it? How familiar with the progression of argument and conclusion in it are you?

I have read it multiple times, and I have the Spirit of God.

asking because multiple times now you accused a direct quote from it of blasphemy against Christ, a quote which you asserted should be worded differently than it actually is in every translation,

Please specify which scripture, as so many have been used on both sides of the obey or not obey argument.

with no scholarly controversy at all, and you haven't shown the grace to admit you were wrong about that. So i suspect that you don't really know what Romans says, actually? Maybe? That would explain part of why a lot of what some of us are saying to you seems to be going right past you instead of in your ears, i think.

My accusals were an effort to get folks to quit using that scripture improperly.
By getting them to see that what is written does not apply to every circumstance is important if they are ever going to actually "turn from" sin.
I mean, if scrip' is improperly used to says you can't be perfect-sinless, who is going to try.
Look how many times that one scrip' , (Rom 3 ?), has been misused.
And how about all the misuse of 1 John 1:8?
And Romans 7?
Many will use scripture improperly to seal their own destruction.

 

[Laish]

i don't think it's that odd. The scripture calls the word of God a sword - seems wise to me to learn how to wield one properly, else we pick it up and be a danger both to ourselves and our friends, but pose little threat to an enemy who is quite well practiced.
& applying understanding of this world to spiritual things? That should be natural to us all - yet i thank God, because i entreated Him for understanding, and He is faithful.


But yeah, you're right, i'm definitely a weirdo.

It’s not like everyone knows how to use a sword bro perhaps some should take up sword and main-gauche or perhaps a buckler.
Before you slice them up.
Blessings
Bill

 

[PJW]

i don't think it's that odd. The scripture calls the word of God a sword - seems wise to me to learn how to wield one properly, else we pick it up and be a danger both to ourselves and our friends, but pose little threat to an enemy who is quite well practiced.
& applying understanding of this world to spiritual things? That should be natural to us all - yet i thank God, because i entreated Him for understanding, and He is faithful.
But yeah, you're right, i'm definitely a weirdo.

I was able to understand that post clearly.
With God's help. all things are possible.
We can depend on Him to help us connect.

 

[PJW]

i have a lot of downtime. These days i am working under a contract to monitor & control a bevy of robots; so long as the robots behave, they work while i wait. With good programming and set-up, there's no reason I should not be idle. They are good droids; they beep for me if they need me.

Thanks for your concern. It's funny to me, and i was just telling a friend the same last week in fact, how that i am paid so much more for doing so much less mental or physical 'work' than i did in previous positions - but a lot of effort went in to the front end of this and now i enjoy the 'rest' that comes from ceasing those labors. See an analogy....?

I see it "perfectly".
Could make a good new thread.

 

[posthuman]

It’s not like everyone knows how to use a sword bro perhaps some should take up sword and main-gauche or perhaps a buckler.
Before you slice them up.
Blessings
Bill

A buckler I could handle, but a man with a rapier and dagger is probably the most dangerous opponent i Can think of in a duel!

I do tend to type out a lot of things that presume uncommon and specialised knowledge tho... ((see: all my references to math)) without thinking of the disadvantage i put the reader at. Sorry =[

Learning proper sword handling has been very enlightening to me in several ways, tho, trying to glean spiritual application through it. Maybe i oughta collect some of that and write some blogs for my profile - i've been here for a long time without ever using the whole blog thing... Hmm.

 

[posthuman]

It’s not like everyone knows how to use a sword bro

Ain't that the truth!



((speaking in figure))
Not that i 'consider myself to have apprehended' either, of course.