Not By Works

[PJW]

And you think the latter does? No more than the first if your motive is not love.....

Is love the motive for any sin?
No sin is committed in love, especially love for God.

 

[PJW]

More "lackofunderstandingitis"

What really happened...let's see......

a. They believed and struck the blood = faith = deliverance from Egypt <--sin and the bondage of sin
b. Had the picture of immersion (RED SEA)
c. The LAW (MOSES) took them right to the land of REST
d. THEY failed (under the law one sin make guilty of the whole) were not ALLOWED to enter the rest afforded believers in this life
e. Wandered as a new generation was raised up
f. Delivered by Joshua (savior) into the land of rest

get your story straight......what happened to them was not indicative of losing their salvation and GOD led them in the wilderness the whole 40 years, his presence was known, he gave them a form of worship, the law they would need to govern which also proved their guilt and need of the coming messiah, did not leave them without leadership and instruction and was with them the whole way!

Your paraphrase of my post shows you do understand what I wrote, no promised land for unbelievers.
The unbelief was manifested by their sins.

 

[PJW]

Nothing more than a sinless, works for false dogma in this post ^^^^^^^

Actually, your salvation will be determined by your belief or lack thereof concerning JESUS, not by your works which can be wood, hay and stubble yet one is still saved......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. YOUR deceit above is not found in this verse....NO DEEDS mentioned....but faith is.....

Nothing more than a warning and an escape door for the sins that will cause so many to hear "depart from me ye workers of iniquity".
Unbelief is manifested by sin.

 

[PJW]

With the expectations some have, we should throw out a lot of the books of the bible, and many of the OT saints were not saved. Lot was considered righteous, but I dont think what he offered to do in Sodom was good at all, id deem that horrible and neglect of one's family.
But the bible calls him righteous, maybe because....... he had faith?

He had faith without the Law of Moses or a reborn heart.

 

[PJW]

Go study the dark ages and then answer that.....regardless...they were found in iniquity because they, like you, pushed and believed a works café blend dogma. And the bible is clear....works, do not save and or help one maintain salvation which is a one off event with present continuing results based upon faith.

The iniquity reveals who their "king" was, and it wasn't God.
The same will be revealed on the last day.

How does sin manifest faith?

 

[gb9]

Nothing more than a warning and an escape door for the sins that will cause so many to hear "depart from me ye workers of iniquity".
Unbelief is manifested by sin.

the ones who will be told to depart are the ones who saw people , Christians to be exact, in need or in bad situations , and did nothing.

not about who did not keep the Law.

 

[PJW]

Sure it is possible.....love and truth go hand in hand and two cannot walk together unless agreed.

What you have at the core here...are diametrically opposing dogmas........and when it comes to the root (salvation) there is only one truth......yea when it comes to the bible there is only one truth concerning everything......and make NO MISTAKE.....being a brother or sister in Christ to anyone and between anyone is based upon the root (SALVATION) and being born from above..................

Why did Cain kill ABEL...................

ABEL makes the 11th chapter of HEBREWS because HE HAD FAITH and POINTED to CHRIST dia the BLOOD OFFERING

CAIN was of the DEVIL, and makes JUDE as a false teacher because HE OFFERED HIS WORKS void of FAITH.

Let that sink in!

Are you offering sin, with faith?

 

[PJW]

oh, this is an easy one. Free from being religious. You know why it's so easy for man to be religious at heart? I will answer. Because it's the natural state of all mankind. We are created to worship God. But, being cut off from His Presence, man has to find something to fill that place.

It is written..."Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)
It is only the falsely religious who fit your description.

Do you have joy ever bubble up in you?

Oh ya!

 

[PJW]

whoa! We aren't worthy. But, He has made us worthy. That came from the throne to me when first born again.

Try counting the scriptures that has the phrase "in Him". Then meditate on the meaning.

If He made us worthy, are we not worthy?

As for "in Him", or "in Christ", words written scores of times in the NT, how is it possible to do anything outside of Christ if we are in fact "in Him"?
We can't.
So that eliminates the sinner from claiming they are "in Him".

 

[PJW]

In reading the poster who says we don't sin after we receive the Spirit, some things Bruce used to say came almost to my understanding them...its murky, but they fell into place.

At the same time, a verse was brought to my remembrance, the one that says the word of God is so powerful that it divides or separates apart, the spirit and the soul.

Actually, the split is between soul and spirit FROM the joints and marrow.

I think this splitting apart has something to do with how God can reside in me even though my flesh will never stop wanting the awful things it wants, like angry pride when it isn't "respected."

It is written..."[FONT=&quot]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
[/FONT]Those foul affections are dead and gone for those in Christ.
Remember, the temptations the devil raises against you are actually aimed at the old you who is now dead.
Those temptations have no power over "those that are christ's".

 

[PJW]

And may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith

a prim. preposition denoting position and by impl. instrumentality

We are positionally placed into Christ and his righteousness which is IMPUTED by FAITH....This results in our justification (rendered innocent even though guilty) and positionally sanctifies us eternally in Christ.

The security of the believer......

Too bad you accepted "positionally", when you could have had "actually".
It isn't too late to submit to God.

 

[gb9]

Too bad you accepted "positionally", when you could have had "actually".
It isn't too late to submit to God.

oh, we have. we believe in His Son. you believe in you. you sin. no one is sinless. that is why we need a sinless savior.

 

[Magenta]

Actually, the split is between soul and spirit FROM the joints and marrow.

Wrong.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

[PJW]

Hi Dcon...I must admit after reading the post from those who say they do not sin really did wear me down ...
But today I know that if we were sinless like Jesus, why would God Himself be training us up,

Was Jesus not "trained up"?
Didn't He ask questions of the Jewish teachers in Jerusalem when He was twelve?
We are to continue growing in grace and knowledge, but all growth is from a root that is holy.

God gives us 24 hrs a day, He knows that in one day we will not be made like Jesus, He knows we have or have had unforgiveness in our hearts that only He can take away, it is a process, we are His workmanship, if we were all sinless, then we would need no guidance from the Holy Spirit

What do you think rebirth is?
If our old self is killed, and our new creature is born of God, how can it maintain an unforgiving heart?
If we were all sinless, it would show the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

Sorry I have not used Scripture, but this is what I believe to be true...God is the potter, we are His clay, He is moulding us, He is changing us into His likeness, this sinless posting really unnerved me, I know we must not go back to our ways when we once walked in ignorance, we must not willfully sin, but we will all sin and fall short of His holy grace, thank God for His Son our Saviour, all the glory to God who keeps my mind straight through His promises...xox...

You need not ever sin again.
Use the power of God to resist temptation.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Don't give your self up to being "fitted for destruction".[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

u know how the people who go soul-winning alot are usually criticized for "1-2-3 repeat after me" and producing fake converts? i think the works salvationist should have their own term too "1-2-3 repent after me"
btw im not saying repentance isnt necessary. im just saying i wonder how much of good news is preached.

Don't you think that residing in the power of God is "good news"?
Don't you think that being enabled to remain obedient to God is "good news"?
Don't you think freedom from service to sin is "good news"?
Don't you think having a good conscience before God is "good news"?

I certainly did.

 

[PJW]

the shame is if we think we somehow are or even can be "worthy" of Him!!
how low a view of His holiness that requires??

the acceptable sacrifice is a contrite heart, not a vain one!
i pray to be counted worthy to stand before Him according to His mercy, knowing it cannot be by my accomplishment in any way

If you don't think that the sons of God are worthy of "Him", or that the brethren of Jesus are worthy of "Him", I guess you are trying to merit heaven by your own works.

 

[PJW]

do people who judge their own obedience and by it consider themselves worthy?

Luke 18:14 -- one man went home justified, and the other did not.

You should have just answered the question.
Your evasion speaks volumes on your goals.

 

[PJW]

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John3:30

Hi Posthuman, there is one poster here who responded to one of my post saying;

Original Poster: PJW
The "humility" is manifested by our submission to God.
Where is the "humility" of those who serve the "flesh"?​

...................................................................................................................................
Quote: My Post #41433

Its called "Vainglory" It means the man gets all the glory, "where's the humility." Sinless perfectionism is a false gospel = a false christ. But what does that matter anyway right.

"But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble." James4:6​

​

Your doubt is showing in your lack of a straightforward answer.
Where is the humility of those who serve the "flesh"?

 

[PJW]

How about this:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Either I misunderstand this verse, or it says that everyone has some sin, maybe not wilfull sins unto death but for example knowing to do good and not doing it is a SIN. Whatever that isnt out of faith is SIN too! No one is perfect in knowledge and judgment.

1 John 1 is John describing two different walks.
Eifther "we" walk in the light, which is God, or "we" walk in the darkness, which is sin.
Those in the light have had ALL their sins washed away by the blood of Christ...and can say they have no sin.
Those walking in the darkness cannot say they have no sin...because they still commit sin.
It is up to us whether or not we remain in God-light or not.
John also writes this, in 1 John 3:9..."[FONT=&quot]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Remember Jesus using parables about "fig trees cannot bear grapes, and grapevines cannot bear figs"?
It is because the seed of the fig cannot bear anything but more figs.
The same principal applies to those who are born of God.
Being perfect in knowledge and judgement has nothing to do with the fact or fiction of our "turn from" sin.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

Hi loveme1...Thank you for your answer to my post ...It really did shake me, but I took it to our dear sister in Christ Desertrose, and she fed me with Scriptures, and she through our Saviour lifted my spirit...

You are right, I must never accuse anyone of saying they do not sin, but the bible clearly states that we are a liar if we say otherwise, but still, that is not for me to call someone a liar, that is between God and them...Through the grace of God He is stretching me, sometimes it hurts lol, but to be honest, I have felt His Joy today, I never read the Word yesterday, that is not a good thing, although God did give me a lovely day of resting, watching films on YouTube about how the Jews were treated in the war from Germany, so sad, but today I was in the Word and God truly fed me, just finished reading 1 Peter, will start 2 Peter tomorrow...

I have a lovely Journal where I write things down that God is showing me, I read a Scripture, stop, then write in my own words, then I read it back to God, it helps me understand...Thank you once again for your reply ...xox...

Did you catch this from 1 Peter?..."[FONT=&quot]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" (1 Peter 2:21-22)
How about this?..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Ceased from sin.

You see, it is possible.[/FONT]