Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

There are people who seek to water down message of Jesus and crawl back under the law of Moses believing it will save them.

I think you have this backwards. They add to the message of Jesus, and water down the law of Moses so that can fulfill it.

Which I what I think you meant, and I agree.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You and your friends may not have realized but everything I posted above is scripture. The part you underlined is found here........

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

God's sheep hear His Voice....

Yep. And obeying him is not following the law. It is doing what God said, Love your neighbor, and the lord your god, in these two commands ARE ALL THE LAW AND PROPHETS.

Your not going to be found by following some rules or laws. Your going to be found righteous by loving all people. Because love never breaks any commands.

People want to return to law and sound all Godly and all. When the law never made anyone righteous, the apostles called the law a burden even the ewes could not keep and spoke against placing that burden on the gentiles.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is no such thing as faith that does not obey.

True, but even those of faith are not perfect.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture says He wil give us a new heart to loves His commands...

It says he will give us a new heart and and make us a new creation which would cause us to love being like him.

The commands were not given to make us righteous, they were given to condemn us, so we could find Christ.

If a law which was given to break us and bring us to christ in humility and fear because we can not live up to the standard that law requires. How can that law then make us righteous people. Or to be a guide to help us do what god desires.

A car is designed to take us from one place to the other on earth, it was not designed to fly, so You can not use a car to drive to the moon, it was not designed for that purpose.

The law was designed to bring us to christ, You can not use it to make yourself righteous or morally good person who is Christlike, it was not designed for that purpose.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 3:3:18-19, “And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief."

1. Why did they not obey?
2. What did they not believe?
3. What is the root of their disobedience?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So may I be disobedient and still enter the kingdom?

If your not perfect. Are you not disobedient?

If disobedience keeps us from heaven, Thenb king David, Abraham, And even Saul of Tarsus will not be in heaven, for they were disobedient, in fact the Bible says ALL have sinned, thus all are disobedient.

 

[mailmandan]

If your not perfect. Are you not disobedient?

If disobedience keeps us from heaven, Thenb king David, Abraham, And even Saul of Tarsus will not be in heaven, for they were disobedient, in fact the Bible says ALL have sinned, thus all are disobedient.

Instead of seeking salvation through faith in Christ, certain people seem to be seeking salvation through "imperfect obedience."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Instead of seeking salvation through faith in Christ, certain people seem to be seeking salvation through "imperfect obedience."

Which again begs the question, If I can be righteous by imperfect obedience. Why did Christ come to begin with? What purpose was the sacrifice of the cross?

 

[MattforJesus]

There is no sinless perfection while on earth,because as long as we are tempted,and have a choice between good and evil,then we can sin if we desire to sin.Only in heaven with this choice gone can we have sinless perfection.

But we sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin.

It is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice,and if we do evil we could of chose the good.

Nobody is twisting our arm to live for God.

The Bible says if a person hates sin,and does not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,and show the ways of the Spirit in which there are no ways of the flesh there,and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able,but will give them a way to escape the temptation so they are able to bear it,so they do not get tempted as hard as the world.

The people that believe OSAS,and faith alone,believe that so they can have no responsibility in their life,and can enjoy sin,and worldliness,whenever they want,and it does not affect them.

Look at the people that believe this in society,and you will see how a lot of them live daily in sin,but think they are alright.

Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity,love in action,he is nothing,and charity is greater than faith,and faith works through love.

Paul said love does not thinks no evil,and rejoices in the truth abstaining from sin by the Spirit,and does not rejoice in iniquity,and only goes by their needs,and not their wants,and helps the poor and needy.

James said a person is justified by works,love in action,and not faith alone,because if we lack works then we are not allowing the Spirit to lead us,and lack love,then we lack faith.

Which the first,and fifth Church,in Revelation,they lacked works,and Jesus told them to repent,or He would go against them.

But they do not get it,but want a believe system that they can enjoy sin,and worldliness,and believe they are alright,for that is the kind of people that believe OSAS,and faith only,so they can enjoy the world,and believe they are right with God.

It produces hypocrites that causes people to shun Christianity,which God said give offense in nothing,so the ministry is not blamed.

There is only one conclusion to all of this.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

They do not get that sin does affect their relationship with God,but that is why they believe OSAS,and faith alone,so they can enjoy their wants,and live worldly.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,and we have a choice between good,and evil,so there is no excuse,especially when a Spirit led life will abstain from sin.

Hold unto sin,and neglect the poor and needy by going by your wants,then that is a lack of love,which means no faith,for charity,love in action,is greater than faith.

No love,no faith,which the people that believe OSAS,and faith alone,say we cannot abstain from sin,but they do not try to beat sin but they sin on purpose,and then say they cannot abstain from sin.

They enjoy sin on purpose,and then have the gall to say they cannot beat it when they are not trying to beat it,but doing sin on purpose,for if they were trying to beat it God said they could beat it.

When I think of people that believe OSAS,and faith alone,I shudder,for I think of people that hold unto sin,and like to enjoy the world,and not trying to beat sin,but sinning on purpose.

 

[Studyman]

If your not perfect. Are you not disobedient?

If disobedience keeps us from heaven, Thenb king David, Abraham, And even Saul of Tarsus will not be in heaven, for they were disobedient, in fact the Bible says ALL have sinned, thus all are disobedient.

2 Sam. 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

I could never use David as an excuse to transgress God's Commandments. I find it amazing you would use his name to excuse disobedience given how the story actually plays out.

David was sorry and repented of the way he despised God and His Commandments and never did it again. This is the difference between you and him. So God put his disobedience away, therefore he was no longer disobedient. That is the point. So you are making false claims about King David as a means to justify your disobedience.

If I were you I would cover my head in sack cloth and pray that God will forgive your heartless, ignorant statements about a man whom God loved.

Yes, David will go to heaven, but not because of his rebellion, but because of his repentance.

If you are going to use his name as an excuse for disobedience, at least show the common courtesy to reveal the whole story and the consequences that followed.


14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.This was the real problem with David's actions. God knew men would use him as an excuse to despise His Commandments for years to come. And here you are, still accusing David as being disobedient and completely ignoring the "rest of the story"

Did Jesus ever accuse King David of disobedience? How about Abraham? Did Jesus ever accuse him of disobedience? How about the Apostles? Did they ever accuse any of the examples of faith in the Bible as disobedient sinners?

No, not one time did anyone in the Bible mention David was a disobedient sinner.

But you do!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Sam. 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

I could never use David as an excuse to transgress God's Commandments. I find it amazing you would use his name to excuse disobedience given how the story actually plays out.

David was sorry and repented of the way he despised God and His Commandments and never did it again. This is the difference between you and him. So God put his disobedience away, therefore he was no longer disobedient. That is the point. So you are making false claims about King David as a means to justify your disobedience.

If I were you I would cover my head in sack cloth and pray that God will forgive your heartless, ignorant statements about a man whom God loved.

Yes, David will go to heaven, but not because of his rebellion, but because of his repentance.

If you are going to use his name as an excuse for disobedience, at least show the common courtesy to reveal the whole story and the consequences that followed.


14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.This was the real problem with David's actions. God knew men would use him as an excuse to despise His Commandments for years to come. And here you are, still accusing David as being disobedient and completely ignoring the "rest of the story"

Did Jesus ever accuse King David of disobedience? How about Abraham? Did Jesus ever accuse him of disobedience? How about the Apostles? Did they ever accuse any of the examples of faith in the Bible as disobedient sinners?

No, not one time did anyone in the Bible mention David was a disobedient sinner.

But you do!!!!

There you have it folks, Murder and adultry are not sins of disobedience. We can sin all we want. Lets go out and eat, drink, and be merry, We can do whatever we want and not be called a disobedient sinner.

Even thought paul said in Rom 3: 23 that all have sinned and fall short of Gods glory.

Last I checked, ALL included king david.

me wonders what sin this poster wants to hide?

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Acts 13:38-39
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

2 Corinthians 5:17-19
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes true faith saves, psudo faith does not. True faith does the will of Yah, psudo faith does one's own will.

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"



embellish
[em-bel-ish
verb (used with object)
1.to beautify by or as if by ornamentation; ornament; adorn.
2.to enhance (a statement or narrative) with fictitious additions.

I can't speak to embelish, but to obtain I can speak to;

Yes one has to do the will of Yah to enter His kingdom, for it is written;

1 John 2:17, "And the world passes away, and the lust of it, but the one doing the desire of Yah remains forever."

John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”



I believe Scripture; Yahshua's final Revelation to mankind:

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."

Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

and I also believe you twist Paul's words;

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”



1 Corinthians 7:19, "The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”

So....after all of this rigmarole you cannot answer simple questions with a yes or no.....the above proves you push a false gospel of works for and or works to keep.....good luck with that.........

I suggest a careful study of Galatians 1 and 3 as well as what Jesus has to say about the many that boast in their works and law keeping.....His exact words concerning the Pharisees....blind leaders of the blind and white washed coffins filled with the bones of dead men.

 

[dcontroversal]

DC is this true:

Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”

A believer is no longer condemned by the law and or judged by the law because we have been set free and had the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith without the works of the law.......read the rest of Romans and Galatians and be set free by faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

Stop trying to equate verses used to Teach the New Testament in place of the Old as teaching against GOD's Law.. the Messiah teaches and instructs us through His Testament for He knows the will of His Father and as our High Priest we are to believe Him.

Through belief GOD's Power Keeps us and we walk in the light as Children of GOD.

Faith in Him and his works perfect our Faith.. because those that Love Him Keep His Commands.. Faith that worketh by love..

The works of the law are part of the Old Covenant.. and perfect by flesh does not mean obedience to GOD's Law because the flesh is at enmity with the Law of GOD.. hence why a believer is born again of the Holy Spirit that comes by hearing of Faith.. to think that Paul was saying who bewitched to Keep GOD's Law... would of been no different to the serpent beguiling them to disobey.. but Paul is certainly not saying that and any who believe He is is in unbelief...

If you don't believe the Messiah taught us to Keep the Commandments and be perfect and Righteous even to warn us to cut off our hand rather than all the body be destroyed because of sin... then you need to go find the Words you are to believe that give Everlasting life..

To be Forgiven and Reconciled is to desire to sin no more.. that is the purpose of the New Covenant for us to Love GOD and obey Him knowing whatever He tells us to do we should believe.

If you don't read and believe the warnings given to the churches in Revelation and moved by those words then there is something amiss.

Stop lying through your teeth and pushing a law based working for false gospel....ALL I did was quote scripture and Galatians is clear...ALL who blend faith and the works of the law for salvation or to finish salvation are deceived, called foolish and bewitched.....

wake up to JESUS<---The LAW condemns, proves guilt and points to the savior!

 

[Amberlight]

Stop lying through your teeth and pushing a law based working for false gospel....ALL I did was quote scripture and Galatians is clear...ALL who blend faith and the works of the law for salvation or to finish salvation are deceived, called foolish and bewitched.....

wake up to JESUS<---The LAW condemns, proves guilt and points to the savior!

I do not think there is much change of him understanding this.

Might as well have some .

 

[dcontroversal]

Straw man argument. I am not demanding that people "must" keep the Sabbath on Sunday (or else!) like the SDA church teaches about Saturday. I attend church on Sunday, but I worship God 7 days a week. I don't get caught up in legalistic prescriptions, like Sabbatarians do.

AMEN....they are all Pharisees that bind men down under this legalistic, law abiding, working for false dogma that leads straight to the pit......FAITH plus law or works = false gospel of another kind with NO POWER to save or even KEEP SAVED

 

[VCO]

Your salvation is between you and God. Only he who loves all can make you free to love and follow him. Jesus says; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Christians are those that through faith love and follow Jesus because we are in him and he in us. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who believe his Word and obey him. He that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him...... Do you believe God's Word?

Galatians 5:1-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Christ has liberated us to be free. Stand firm then and don’t submit again to a yoke of slavery.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Take note! I, Paul, tell you that if you get yourselves circumcised, Christ will not benefit you at all.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to keep the entire law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.