Not By Works

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YOU are the one who said "as saints we still sin sometimes." You also said that we are not sinful in Christ. Then I asked YOU how we can still be saints and sin, if we aren't sinful in Christ. And you didn't provide an answer. So I'll ask again: HOW are we saints who sin sometimes, if we are NOT sinful in Christ? As to who on this thread pushes works for salvation, read several of Fran's posts. She said several times we MUST do works to keep salvation. In fact, she asked hundreds of times WHAT works we had to do to keep saved. But she also stated that she doesn't believe in eternal life, so all the works she does won't help her anyway..


7seasrekeyed said:
I just have a little discernment

just a little mind you

and a good amount of counselling Christians under the belt

but you carry on

we are not sinful people in Christ

we are now saints who do sometimes sin

a chronic sin problem indicates an area of life that either the person has not surrendered or needs help with...that is what biblical counselling is for

I think you should kick the hostility down a notch...before you tell Jens he needs to do it

over and out
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7seasrekeyed said:
nope

the contradiction is your own post

YOU said sinner

have you read the NT?

Paul calls everyone he writes to, with the exception of the Galatians, SAINTS

it's in the Bible

ps...what on earth does sinful in Christ mean? you don't have to answer if you can't or if you do not want to

that is where I got it from

listen...I can provide insults from almost every page in this thread

that is not what I asked for...I said please supply posts from people who say you must work for salvation

like I said, crickets chirping
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She meant that Jesus' journey here on earth started at the time of his birth. Obviously.. lol


And she said that a virgin birth is IMpossible for any of us to do. Once again, that's obvious..



7seasrekeyed said:
I'm really not taking sides in this squirrel fight

I am just reacting to some of the posts

like the above

God sent the Holy Spirit when Jesus ascended into heaven

He did that to ENABLE us to walk before Him, to be led of His Spirit and produce a life that illustrates the fact that we now have Christ in us by the Spirit of God

maybe some of the offbeat answers being given are the result of a lack of knowledge of scripture

I don't know

but to say Jesus was born of a virgin in a way that suggests anyone thinks we should emulate Jesus in that manner is silly beyond belief

further...even Jesus didn't walk at His birth (just in keeping with your post)
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you know blue

you truly do not understand what I said and I am sorry I tried to even explain it

and thanks for the 'proof' of people saying works are needed for salvation

so tiresome
 
Then stop making contradictory statements such as we do still sin, but yet we aren't sinful (in Christ)..And then people might get what you're trying to say..


7seasrekeyed said:
you know blue

you truly do not understand what I said and I am sorry I tried to even explain it

and thanks for the 'proof' of people saying works are needed for salvation

so tiresome
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BillG said:
Best not to, it will drive you nuts :cool:
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it's hard to sneak in some biblical truth here

it's all one big personal grudge match

people do not seem able to understand that Christians can have a problem with sin and still be righteous in God's eyes BECAUSE they are in need of help...as per your post

they will argue that we are sinners and yet that is not scriptural

of course, there is always the Bible, but that does take some effort :p
 
dalok6800 said:
If God intended to fight every battle for us, he would not have given us all an offensive weapon called the sword of the Spirit.

David never talked about the giant like the rest did, he spoke to the giant. We do not talk about the mountains, Jesus said we should speak to the mountains and through personal faith, they will be gathered up and tossed into the sea. God does not fight for us directly. He does not respond to us waiting around on him to move on our behalf. God responds to our faith and then he moves on our behalf. This is why it confuses me when people say Jesus Faith saves and then grows us. Jesus' own faith got him through his race and he now sits at the right hand. Jesus already demonstrated his own personal faith and God moved on his behalf. It is time for the body to wake up and move through their own personal faith. This is the kind of faith that pleases God! The shield of faith can be just as much an offensive weapons as it is a defensive weapon. For faith to be offensive it must be moving forward. Faith is like a car, it moves, it does not stay parked.
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I survived the Vietnam war, US Army 1970-71, 4th Infantry Div. 4/42, Airmobile unit. You cannot tell me the providence of God did not put me at the right place at the right time so that I was not wounded or killed, I moved, the enemy missed their target, all God's doing not mine. Just as God saves every believer from eternal punishment it is all God's work not ours.

Today I have stage 4 prostate cancer caused by Agent Orange from the Vietnam war. My wife and I and our Church prayed that God would lead me to and be with me through the best treatments possible, and He has praise God! You give to much credit to "your personal faith", to move mountains. I attribute my safe return home and care for proper cancer treatments to my God and Savior, all the way period. God bless the men and women who did not return home from the war because they gave their everything so that the rest of us could return home.

God is Omni-present and Omniscient, powerful to save, we should not forget the attributes of God. I find your gospel to be self-serving, and not giving God the praise He deserves, but as the saying goes, "have it your way"
 
7seasrekeyed said:
I'm really not taking sides in this squirrel fight

I am just reacting to some of the posts

like the above

God sent the Holy Spirit when Jesus ascended into heaven

He did that to ENABLE us to walk before Him, to be led of His Spirit and produce a life that illustrates the fact that we now have Christ in us by the Spirit of God

maybe some of the offbeat answers being given are the result of a lack of knowledge of scripture

I don't know

but to say Jesus was born of a virgin in a way that suggests anyone thinks we should emulate Jesus in that manner is silly beyond belief

further...even Jesus didn't walk at His birth (just in keeping with your post)
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You misunderstood. By virgin birth, I meant, there is no sinner's blood in Jesus.

That's an impossibility for us at the physical level.

Now, you bring a good point. God sent us the Holy Spirit. He did so after Jesus has already redeemed us from our bodies of death. Romans 7:24

The point of my post was, in response to PeterJens, rather than imitating Christ (at the outer level), we are to be in Christ letting Him do the work through us. Apart from Him and His saving us, we're nothing.
 
7seasrekeyed said:
I'm getting worried here

if you are saved, you ARE righteous

that is the point of salvation

if you are not righteous, then you are not saved

you really have not read much of this thread

then again, it is in the New Testament
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Hi 7...Yes I agree...Without Christ, God sees our filthy rags, when we are born again, Gods sees we are righteous through His Son Jesus...
 
preacher4truth said:
Your annoyance with another has turned into causing division, is schismatic and is sowing discord.
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I think it's insulting too

I guess some of the truth you may try to get across, the truth you believe in, just comes with insults

is that true?

is insulting and mocking somehow bringing unity here?

I thought scripture said we should be careful how we represent the gospel and not to offend people

or is that just a suggestion in the Bible?
 
Rosemaryx said:
Hi 7...Yes I agree...Without Christ, God sees our filthy rags, when we are born again, Gods sees we are righteous through His Son Jesus...
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YES!

this is a major doctrine of the Bible and why Paul called believers saints and not sinners
 
Jesus offended people all the time while representing the gospel.. just saying. :) Oh, AND He insulted people too.


7seasrekeyed said:
I think it's insulting too

I guess some of the truth you may try to get across, the truth you believe in, just comes with insults

is that true?

is insulting and mocking somehow bringing unity here?

I thought scripture said we should be careful how we represent the gospel and not to offend people

or is that just a suggestion in the Bible?
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AbigailZeke said:
You misunderstood. By virgin birth, I meant, there is no sinner's blood in Jesus.

That's an impossibility for us at the physical level.

Now, you bring a good point. God sent us the Holy Spirit. He did so after Jesus has already redeemed us from our bodies of death. Romans 7:24

The point of my post was, in response to PeterJens, rather than imitating Christ (at the outer level), we are to be in Christ letting Him do the work through us. Apart from Him and His saving us, we're nothing.
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how does Jesus do the work through us?

what work do you mean?

did you know that the word imitate is actually used in scripture? maybe Jens knew what he was talking about?

he may have been using a translation that uses the word imitate, as below for example:

American Standard Version
Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children;

King James Bible
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Darby Bible Translation
Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children,

World English Bible
Be therefore imitators of God, as beloved children.
 
AbigailZeke said:
I try to. However, I would suggest you take a break. I think you're other discussions are clouding your judgement. Friendly advise, no offence.
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LOL!

like I said

please take your own advice

friendly of course

oh...and don't forget to answer my response to your ..uh...explanation
 
7seasrekeyed said:
how does Jesus do the work through us?

what work do you mean?

did you know that the word imitate is actually used in scripture? maybe Jens knew what he was talking about?

he may have been using a translation that uses the word imitate, as below for example:

American Standard Version
Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children;

King James Bible
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Darby Bible Translation
Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children,

World English Bible
Be therefore imitators of God, as beloved children.
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I am fully aware of that verse. By imitation alone, one does need Christ.

I would start a discussion with you about the 'works' but not now as I feel it would turn out to be argumentative rather than positive.
 
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