Not By Works
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Those who believe one can lose salvation have no understanding or comprehension of what the works of wood, hay and stubble are and or how they apply unto the saved....nor do they understand that a baby is a baby and has no clue what to do, how to eat, walk, talk, crap in the toilet, work, turn the T.V. on etc.....works and fruit are a process of growth and maturity and in every garden, field, tree the produce may be from1 piece to a bumper crop.....they fail to understand that many saved will be saved so as by fire without much to show in their lives that accompany salvation.
My understanding of the difference is knowing intellectually who HE is with the mind that lies between your ears, is VASTLY different than: KNOWING HIM INTIMATELY and very personally Loving Him in your HEART, which is the mind of your Human Spirit.
For Example, here is evidence that intellectually knowing who he is, is NOT what He was talking about when HE said: "I never knew you."
Mark 5:1-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then they came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gadarenes.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And he cried out with a loud voice and said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me."
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For He said to him, "Come out of the man, unclean spirit!"
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then He asked him, "What is your name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion; for we are many."
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So all the demons begged Him, saying, "Send us to the swine, that we may enter them."
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] So those who fed the swine fled, and they told it in the city and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that had happened.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.
If Jesus was talking about intectual head knowledge of who he is, then wouldn't all 2000 demons be saved Christians?
NO! KNOWING HIM in your heart with the mind of your born again human spirit, is an intimate, inner personal, LOVE relationship with Messiah, Jesus Christ, where we out of godly LOVE for HIM, willingly submit to HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER.
P
This misguided thinking has overtaken the church. Your theology, which is very popular in the church, is actually the false theology. Read the passage:
Only the person who obeys God's command to love others, being like Him in this life has no reason to fear the coming Judgment. But the church thinks they don't have to fear the coming Judgment at all, even if they live disobedient, enslaved lives, as if slaves are in line for the inheritance too.
I want to ask how you missed this, but I know you don't know this because the church at large does not teach this. And even when people do read the Bible for themselves they read it according to the way they've been taught, which makes them gloss right over and not 'see' any scripture that suggests what you do actually means something on the Day of Judgment.
As we can see by an honest, unbiased read of the passage, Solomon and John are in perfect agreement about keeping God's commands in view of the coming Judgment. We're not released from the commandments of God in this New Covenant so that we can live in disobedience and everything will still be okay on the Day of Judgment. That's turning the grace of God into a license to sin. The Bible is clear that grace was given to us to be released from sin, not live in it with impunity. But so many in the church think grace was given so you can live less than godly lives and everything will be just fine between you and God because as they say, "salvation is soooo not of works". John says it is the obedient person who's faith is completed (perfected) in actual deeds of love who can have confidence in the day of Judgment. The disobedient Christian has no such confidence. He's kidding himself if he thinks he does.
Of course, John is not saying works of obedience earn you salvation. He's once again confirming the truth that our works are going to be examined at the Judgment and will be used to either condemn us as not knowing Christ in salvation, or aquiting us as one who does know Christ in salvation (Matthew 25). And we know what evidence Christ will be looking for. The Bible is plain about that. We can have peace about that Day because we can see that we do have that evidence in our lives (read the passage above). It is the person who does not have that evidence in his life who should be fearing the Day of Judgment. And yet there are so many in the church boasting of this gospel that makes it so you can live in the gutter and have no fear of the Day of Judgment. That's not what the Bible says, folks. Stop listening to the lies of the church.
"16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." (1 John 4:16-18 NASB)
Only the person who obeys God's command to love others, being like Him in this life has no reason to fear the coming Judgment. But the church thinks they don't have to fear the coming Judgment at all, even if they live disobedient, enslaved lives, as if slaves are in line for the inheritance too.
I want to ask how you missed this, but I know you don't know this because the church at large does not teach this. And even when people do read the Bible for themselves they read it according to the way they've been taught, which makes them gloss right over and not 'see' any scripture that suggests what you do actually means something on the Day of Judgment.
As we can see by an honest, unbiased read of the passage, Solomon and John are in perfect agreement about keeping God's commands in view of the coming Judgment. We're not released from the commandments of God in this New Covenant so that we can live in disobedience and everything will still be okay on the Day of Judgment. That's turning the grace of God into a license to sin. The Bible is clear that grace was given to us to be released from sin, not live in it with impunity. But so many in the church think grace was given so you can live less than godly lives and everything will be just fine between you and God because as they say, "salvation is soooo not of works". John says it is the obedient person who's faith is completed (perfected) in actual deeds of love who can have confidence in the day of Judgment. The disobedient Christian has no such confidence. He's kidding himself if he thinks he does.
Of course, John is not saying works of obedience earn you salvation. He's once again confirming the truth that our works are going to be examined at the Judgment and will be used to either condemn us as not knowing Christ in salvation, or aquiting us as one who does know Christ in salvation (Matthew 25). And we know what evidence Christ will be looking for. The Bible is plain about that. We can have peace about that Day because we can see that we do have that evidence in our lives (read the passage above). It is the person who does not have that evidence in his life who should be fearing the Day of Judgment. And yet there are so many in the church boasting of this gospel that makes it so you can live in the gutter and have no fear of the Day of Judgment. That's not what the Bible says, folks. Stop listening to the lies of the church.
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YOU ARE MISUNDERSTANDING the Scripture. What it is saying is genuine SAVING FAITH, always produces a harvest of being a Faithful Servant. Counterfeit Faith, produces little or NO faithfulness or obedience.
John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
Genuinely being born again, always results in the Holy Spirit pouring GOD's LOVE directly in your heart. THAT LOVE poured into your heart, ALWAYS produces a desire to obey HIM. Not we are not perfect, but we are those whose lifestyle is striving to obey HIM. No and's, if's, but's, or maybe's; hence BY THEIR FRUIT YOU WILL KNOW THEM. Spiritual Fruits are lifestyle characteristics, not produced in the human mind, but rather in the human spirit after it has been birthed into eternal life by the Holy Spirit. THUS:
1 John 2:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:
That word KEEP and KEEPS are in the Greek perfect tense not found in English, not implying perfection, but rather an ongoing lifestyle of Striving to KEEP produced out of LOVE for GOD.
And what do we do when we stumple and fail:
1 John 1:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
That verb CONFESS is also in the Greek perfect tense, implying that our ongoing lifestyle produced out of Love for GOD, where we eagerly confess and repent of each new sin we find in ourselves.
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Titus 3:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Hi decon,
Even if we are a tiny raisin on the vine Jesus He still Love's us, and He will reward us when the awards are given out. I'd rather be a raisin in God's family than a huge mango tree and not saved.
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done." Rev. 22:12
Even if we are a tiny raisin on the vine Jesus He still Love's us, and He will reward us when the awards are given out. I'd rather be a raisin in God's family than a huge mango tree and not saved.
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done." Rev. 22:12
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P
Faith that has ceased produces no faithfulness or obedience, too.
That's why it's imperative to keep believing in and loving Him, so we can continue to keep His commands, and as a result, have no fear on the Day of Judgment that is coming.
Actually, 'keep' is in the present tense, which in most cases corresponds to our English present tense:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/2/1/t_conc_1161004
And 'keeps' is not even a verb, but a noun:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/2/1/t_conc_1161005
Not to burst your bubble, but 'confess' is in the present tense, not the perfect tense:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/1/1/t_conc_1160009
That's why it's imperative to keep believing in and loving Him, so we can continue to keep His commands, and as a result, have no fear on the Day of Judgment that is coming.
Actually, 'keep' is in the present tense, which in most cases corresponds to our English present tense:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/2/1/t_conc_1161004
And 'keeps' is not even a verb, but a noun:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/2/1/t_conc_1161005
Not to burst your bubble, but 'confess' is in the present tense, not the perfect tense:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/1/1/t_conc_1160009
P
Of course this is true. It's not even in debate in this thread. Salvation is secured solely on the basis of having your sins forgiven out of God's mercy and grace.
What the church doesn't understand is that our works are the proof of whether or not we possess the salvation that is secured "not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness". The church seems incapable of understanding works being required at the Judgment as the evidence of having been freely forgiven in God's salvation apart from our works and can only comprehend works at the Judgment as someone trying to earn their way into the kingdom. The darkness is so vast and inpenetrable in the church concerning this matter that I don't weary myself about it anymore. Mere words can't push that depth of darkness aside. Only God can rescue people from the grip of this demonic doctrine gripping the church at this time in history. I just put the words out there and let God do the rest.
What the church doesn't understand is that our works are the proof of whether or not we possess the salvation that is secured "not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness". The church seems incapable of understanding works being required at the Judgment as the evidence of having been freely forgiven in God's salvation apart from our works and can only comprehend works at the Judgment as someone trying to earn their way into the kingdom. The darkness is so vast and inpenetrable in the church concerning this matter that I don't weary myself about it anymore. Mere words can't push that depth of darkness aside. Only God can rescue people from the grip of this demonic doctrine gripping the church at this time in history. I just put the words out there and let God do the rest.
P
Are you afraid of John's words?
You should be. They're intended to move you to the completion of your faith--the working out of your faith into actual deeds, so that you can rest in the assurance that you are indeed at peace with God and will pass through the coming Judgment safely. Read the passage.
When you are like Him in this life, that is when you fear is cast out. Confessing Christ as savior, alone, without works, is not how you cast out fear of the Day of Judgment. That's called dead faith--the kind of faith demons have. The faith that can not save. James said so.
It's funny how so many people will affirm the truth that saving faith WILL produce works, but then they will get almost violent at the suggestion that you have to have those works on the Day of Judgment for that very reason--because that's what saving faith produces.
"16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." (1 John 4:16-18 NASB)
You should be. They're intended to move you to the completion of your faith--the working out of your faith into actual deeds, so that you can rest in the assurance that you are indeed at peace with God and will pass through the coming Judgment safely. Read the passage.
When you are like Him in this life, that is when you fear is cast out. Confessing Christ as savior, alone, without works, is not how you cast out fear of the Day of Judgment. That's called dead faith--the kind of faith demons have. The faith that can not save. James said so.
It's funny how so many people will affirm the truth that saving faith WILL produce works, but then they will get almost violent at the suggestion that you have to have those works on the Day of Judgment for that very reason--because that's what saving faith produces.