Not By Works

[Cee]

On the topic of false teachers.

Scripture teaches a false teacher is known by their fruits. Not merely by their teaching.

What kind of fruits? Fruits of love.

So if someone is calling another a "false teacher" and not doing it out of love.

It is they who are the false teacher.

This is why Jesus says check your own eyeballs for logs before checking other's for specks.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

On the topic of false teachers.

Scripture teaches a false teacher is known by their fruits. Not merely by their teaching.

What kind of fruits? Fruits of love.

So if someone is calling another a "false teacher" and not doing it out of love.

It is they who are the false teacher.

This is why Jesus says check your own eyeballs for logs before checking other's for specks.

ya keep sharing this truth, your not gonna be like much bro..lol

 

[Meggido]

On the topic of false teachers.

Scripture teaches a false teacher is known by their fruits. Not merely by their teaching.

What kind of fruits? Fruits of love.

So if someone is calling another a "false teacher" and not doing it out of love.

It is they who are the false teacher.

This is why Jesus says check your own eyeballs for logs before checking other's for specks.

When is the last time you went to service and saw correctly applied church discipline in a corporate setting?

Have you ever had to be part of applying or receiving properly applied rebuke, correction, discipline , or reproof from a Pastor or accountability partner...

Have you ever had been part of a Matt 18 scenario?

 

[Cee]

nummmmmmm

if you are believing in Jesus how is the focus on self?

that just stood out to me

otherwise I'm not duking out this one with anybody

oh...and aren't you and everyone here who is a Christian continuing to believe...or have you stopped?

so confusing.........

Great question,

Thank you for asking it.

What I mean is, the idea of "*I* have to continually believe..."

Who bears the burden of their salvation if this is true?

 

[Cee]

When is the last time you went to service and saw correctly applied church discipline in a corporate setting?

Have you ever had to be part of applying or receiving properly applied rebuke, correction, discipline , or reproof from a Pastor or accountability partner...

Have you ever had been part of a Matt 18 scenario?

Thank you for your question. And for choosing to embrace dialogue instead of judgment.

In answer to you:

I see correction done in love all the time, my friend.

But there's a big difference between correction out of love and not.

One of the differences is that correction in love is not done out of punishment, but out of discipleship.

Punishment is about what you did in the past is bad.
Discipleship is about who you are becoming in the future.

I don't correct people because they did something wrong, Jesus took our punishment, I correct people because of who they are in Christ. And correction helps them grow and mature in Him.

Now that I've answered your questions. Please answer mine.

Do you disagree that Scripture teaches that a false teacher is known by their fruits? And if so, what fruits are those?

Do you agree that Scripture teaches those who know God love their brothers and sisters? And if so, does it also teach those who don't love their brothers and sisters don't know God? And if they don't know God, what do they have to teach us?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi Meggido and EG...I just want to say that i apologized to EG for stating that i was sad because he said i was not hearing from the Holy Spirit when i was reading Hebrews 6 and on wards, but EG did not say i was not hearing from the Holy Spirit, he said " Don`t assume i was "...And that`s why i apologized although EG had a difference in meaning to what i said i was being led to believe through the Holy Spirit and i still believe it was the Holy Spirit leading me ...All i can add to this is You to are brothers in Christ, so you both have different views on certain matters, but for the LOVE of Christ you both need to stop with this ungodly walk and collect your thoughts...God forbid should He take one of you home tonight, how would the other feel in the light of day that you have lost your brother...You both need to fix up yourselfs and be the light on the hill so others can see the light of Jesus in you both...Putting each other on and off with ignore is childish, and the Christian walk is not a play ground...Where would we be if Jesus put us all on ignore, so come together brothers and forgive each other in love, and others also need to stop stirring the pot, when you see brothers or sisters fighting, say something that is worthy for the sake of Christ, not add your fleshly comments...In Jesus name i pray for you both Amen...xox...

 

[Meggido]

On the topic of false teachers.

Scripture teaches a false teacher is known by their fruits. Not merely by their teaching.

What kind of fruits? Fruits of love.

So if someone is calling another a "false teacher" and not doing it out of love.

It is they who are the false teacher.

This is why Jesus says check your own eyeballs for logs before checking other's for specks.

Matt 7.15-20

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]So then, you will know them by their fruits.


Fruit of the Spirit or lack of fruit of the Spirit is not fruit that remains or being known by your fruits....this is because it is not Fruits of the Spirit, but Fruit of the Spirit...

Fruits are something else...and that is what Jesus is saying here.... this has more to do with the production of followers than manifesting the lack of the Fruit of the Spirit...

I do not discount that love is our guiding principal...

 

[Cee]

Matt 7.15-20

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]So then, you will know them by their fruits.


Fruit of the Spirit or lack of fruit of the Spirit is not fruit that remains or being known by your fruits....this is because it is not Fruits of the Spirit, but Fruit of the Spirit...

Fruits are something else...and that is what Jesus is saying here.... this has more to do with the production of followers than love....

Thank you for your answer.

First, I do agree it is FRUIT of the Spirit not fruits.

But it's never been fruits.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

However, I can't agree that this passage isn't about love.

Jesus is saying watch out for false prophets who want to hurt you (consume you like wolves) not help you. Notice he says "wolves". Wolves eat sheep. Their goal is not to love the sheep and care for them as the Shepherd does.

Remember Jesus says to Peter - Do you love ME? If so, tend and care for my sheep.

Also remember Jesus said those who are separated as sheep and goats. Are those who love ME and those who don't. And when He was asked well how can we love You? We didn't SEE You? He will say as you do for the least you do unto ME.

And also you didn't answer my questions about knowing God = loving one another. Do you disagree?

 

[Meggido]

Thank you for your question. And for choosing to embrace dialogue instead of judgment.

In answer to you:

I see correction done in love all the time, my friend.

But there's a big difference between correction out of love and not.

One of the differences is that correction in love is not done out of punishment, but out of discipleship.

Punishment is about what you did in the past is bad.
Discipleship is about who you are becoming in the future.

I don't correct people because they did something wrong, Jesus took our punishment, I correct people because of who they are in Christ. And correction helps them grow and mature in Him.

Now that I've answered your questions. Please answer mine.

Do you disagree that Scripture teaches that a false teacher is known by their fruits? And if so, what fruits are those?

Do you agree that Scripture teaches those who know God love their brothers and sisters? And if so, does it also teach those who don't love their brothers and sisters don't know God? And if they don't know God, what do they have to teach us?

answered you below on another post on the fruit...1 John 4 is absolute truth we all should follow ..

I believe correction in truth and love should be applied by the spiritual maturity and level a person can understand it.....

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What if people were calling you a heretic because they didn't interpret Scripture like you did?

How would you want to be treated?

I've been called worse

I have not called anyone here a heretic .. not sure if that is what you are thinking

you do know there are actual heretics though, right?

there is an accepted interpretation of scripture for many things

the main one being that we accept Christ for salvation and He is the ONLY way to God

now if someone comes along and says Christ is not the only way and insists they are a Christian, that would be heresy and especially if they go about teaching the same

they do walk among us

it is nonsense to say everyone is a heretic to someone

as I already stated, I have truly never seen that term used as much as it is here.

I used to say there was no such thing as hyper grace because I pointed to grace in scripture and had the silly and naive notion that was what we all were seeing

I have been educated and now realize there is actually such a thing as hyper grace and some are doused and double doused in it right here

I would not call them heretics either though

 

[Meggido]

Thank you for your answer.

First, I do agree it is FRUIT of the Spirit not fruits.

But it's never been fruits.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

However, I can't agree that this passage isn't about love.

Jesus is saying watch out for false prophets who want to hurt you (consume you like wolves) not help you. Notice he says "wolves". Wolves eat sheep. Their goal is not to love the sheep and care for them as the Shepherd does.

Remember Jesus says to Peter - Do you love ME? If so, tend and care for my sheep.

Also remember Jesus said those who are separated as sheep and goats. Are those who love ME and those who don't. And when He was asked well how can we love You? We didn't SEE You? He will say as you do for the least you do unto ME.

And also you didn't answer my questions about knowing God = loving one another. Do you disagree?

Again, the difference of opinion here is based solely on what you define fruit to be...not all fruit Jesus talks about is Fruit of the Spirit....Jesus had 12 fruits and sent out 70 more....I answered you just fine...but to appease your cleverness, I will say yes. knowing God=loving one another...

When we see grace and that is all we want to see, that is all we will ever see and we will never see truth....both grace and truth work together...

The problem I see is far too many people latch onto grace and it blinds them to truth...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Meggido and EG...I just want to say that i apologized to EG for stating that i was sad because he said i was not hearing from the Holy Spirit when i was reading Hebrews 6 and on wards, but EG did not say i was not hearing from the Holy Spirit, he said " Don`t assume i was "...And that`s why i apologized although EG had a difference in meaning to what i said i was being led to believe through the Holy Spirit and i still believe it was the Holy Spirit leading me ...All i can add to this is You to are brothers in Christ, so you both have different views on certain matters, but for the LOVE of Christ you both need to stop with this ungodly walk and collect your thoughts...God forbid should He take one of you home tonight, how would the other feel in the light of day that you have lost your brother...You both need to fix up yourselfs and be the light on the hill so others can see the light of Jesus in you both...Putting each other on and off with ignore is childish, and the Christian walk is not a play ground...Where would we be if Jesus put us all on ignore, so come together brothers and forgive each other in love, and others also need to stop stirring the pot, when you see brothers or sisters fighting, say something that is worthy for the sake of Christ, not add your fleshly comments...In Jesus name i pray for you both Amen...xox...

as I said earlier, even if we disagree on Hebrews 6 it does not mean we are not sister and brother, and if you really think the Hs spoke to you, who am I to say whether he did or did not? I am not a god, nor would I pretend I could know what only a god knows, we can agree to disagree as brother and sister,

as for meggido, he has had it out for me for months, I evidently said something that upset him, I still can not figure out what it is to this day, and since then, he has been at war for whatever reason,

i told him him a few times, if he was going to keep responding to me by saying things I never said and not try to understand what I am really saying to ignore me,

it eventually got so bad, more than a few begged me to ignore him, because it was worthless to keep fighting and because it was not going to get resolved so I did,

as for For this morning, like you felt God led you. Something kept telling me to open that post (I had not opened one from him for days) so I did, and we see the result, as you think God led you to what you think heb 6 is saying, I feel god led me to open that post of his, for what reason? I do not know, I can only, like you trust him,

Did God really do it? Maybe he did, maybe he did not, but we see what the result was and it was something that could have been prevented if

1, he took the time to see what I really said

2, like you he came to realize he made a mistake and said he was sorry he misunderstood me.

it it would be easy to resolve, all meggido would have to do is do as you did, and admit he made a mistake in understand what I was saying, he can still do that, or he can still be stuck in pride and refuse to admit anything he says about me is wrong, even when proven,


i forgive him, just as I forgave you, before you even asked it, and h do s not need to ask me for my forgiveness for him to get it, as god frgave me, I flove give others,

but it does. It mean I have no right to stand up to someone who is obviously slandering others, and refuses to repent, just like Paul stood up to Peter and called him out. We are to chasten people for doing wrong,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you for your answer.

First, I do agree it is FRUIT of the Spirit not fruits.

But it's never been fruits.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

However, I can't agree that this passage isn't about love.

Jesus is saying watch out for false prophets who want to hurt you (consume you like wolves) not help you. Notice he says "wolves". Wolves eat sheep. Their goal is not to love the sheep and care for them as the Shepherd does.

Remember Jesus says to Peter - Do you love ME? If so, tend and care for my sheep.

Also remember Jesus said those who are separated as sheep and goats. Are those who love ME and those who don't. And when He was asked well how can we love You? We didn't SEE You? He will say as you do for the least you do unto ME.

And also you didn't answer my questions about knowing God = loving one another. Do you disagree?

it also says they come in dressed as sheep, that means they profess they are sheep, and may even act and talk like sheep, to get ores to follow them, then the real sheep are devoured by their message, or their actions.

 

[Cee]

I've been called worse

I have not called anyone here a heretic .. not sure if that is what you are thinking

you do know there are actual heretics though, right?

there is an accepted interpretation of scripture for many things

the main one being that we accept Christ for salvation and He is the ONLY way to God

now if someone comes along and says Christ is not the only way and insists they are a Christian, that would be heresy and especially if they go about teaching the same

they do walk among us

it is nonsense to say everyone is a heretic to someone

as I already stated, I have truly never seen that term used as much as it is here.

I used to say there was no such thing as hyper grace because I pointed to grace in scripture and had the silly and naive notion that was what we all were seeing

I have been educated and now realize there is actually such a thing as hyper grace and some are doused and double doused in it right here

I would not call them heretics either though

Nope, I haven't seen you calling anyone a heretic.

Here's what you did say:

"and defending those who are, by saying everyone is a heretic to someone, is nonsense and proves absolutely nothing"

If there are no heretics here, who is defending those who are?

But I agree we shouldn't defend heretics who are saying Jesus isn't the only way to God.

I believe it so much that I wrote a rather long post (with extensive Scriptural support) about how Jesus has ALWAYS been the ONLY way to God.

But - no one in here is directly saying Jesus isn't the only way to God.

So I agree. There is no heresy being taught here.

So let's not defend the people who are abusively calling others heretics because they don't agree with their interpretation of Scripture.

It's not loving or Scriptural as G7 as shown several times in Scripture.

I'm not referring to you, but you'd think people who are obsessively telling others they need to obey Jesus would be the first to obey it themselves.

And what's equally not loving is saying someone's interpretation of Scripture is wrong without showing them why we believe so.

The key word is: believe so.

That means there is some humility that maybe, just maybe I can learn from other people's interpretation of Scripture. And I shouldn't immediately call people heretics because they see things different to me.

If we do that, we simply gather around those we agree with, and we've aligned with the twisted spirit of denominationalism instead of discipleship which tells us iron sharpens iron.

 

[Meggido]

Hi Meggido and EG...I just want to say that i apologized to EG for stating that i was sad because he said i was not hearing from the Holy Spirit when i was reading Hebrews 6 and on wards, but EG did not say i was not hearing from the Holy Spirit, he said " Don`t assume i was "...And that`s why i apologized although EG had a difference in meaning to what i said i was being led to believe through the Holy Spirit and i still believe it was the Holy Spirit leading me ...All i can add to this is You to are brothers in Christ, so you both have different views on certain matters, but for the LOVE of Christ you both need to stop with this ungodly walk and collect your thoughts...God forbid should He take one of you home tonight, how would the other feel in the light of day that you have lost your brother...You both need to fix up yourselfs and be the light on the hill so others can see the light of Jesus in you both...Putting each other on and off with ignore is childish, and the Christian walk is not a play ground...Where would we be if Jesus put us all on ignore, so come together brothers and forgive each other in love, and others also need to stop stirring the pot, when you see brothers or sisters fighting, say something that is worthy for the sake of Christ, not add your fleshly comments...In Jesus name i pray for you both Amen...xox...

Thank you for the great wisdom Rosemary....

I will not allow someone else to take what the Holy Spirit gives them...it is being called a watchman on the wall...not everyone is called to it and not many even believe in it....and even fewer understand it....

I have no ill will for EG and do not think anything bad about him....I love him in Christ and pray he becomes all God has called him to be and do.....

The exchange after was not an attempt of trickery or anything else he suggests...it is what we call a teachable moment...

A person can take a teachable moment and apply its truth to their lives and be set free and gain new perspective or they can refuse ....

Your post here is a teachable moment for me and many of your posts are just that and the same for others...I also learn new things each day....

thank you for heartfelt consideration for us and may God continue to bless you...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you for the great wisdom Rosemary....

I will not allow someone else to take what the Holy Spirit gives them...it is being called a watchman on the wall...not everyone is called to it and not many even believe in it....and even fewer understand it....

I have no ill will for EG and do not think anything bad about him....I love him in Christ and pray he becomes all God has called him to be and do.....

The exchange after was not an attempt of trickery or anything else he suggests...it is what we call a teachable moment...

A person can take a teachable moment and apply its truth to their lives and be set free and gain new perspective or they can refuse ....

Your post here is a teachable moment for me and many of your posts are just that and the same for others...I also learn new things each day....

thank you for heartfelt consideration for us and may God continue to bless you...

i rest my case, he can't even come to a point to even admit he may be wrong,

 

[Rosemaryx]

as I said earlier, even if we disagree on Hebrews 6 it does not mean we are not sister and brother, and if you really think the Hs spoke to you, who am I to say whether he did or did not? I am not a god, nor would I pretend I could know what only a god knows, we can agree to disagree as brother and sister,

as for meggido, he has had it out for me for months, I evidently said something that upset him, I still can not figure out what it is to this day, and since then, he has been at war for whatever reason,

i told him him a few times, if he was going to keep responding to me by saying things I never said and not try to understand what I am really saying to ignore me,

it eventually got so bad, more than a few begged me to ignore him, because it was worthless to keep fighting and because it was not going to get resolved so I did,

as for For this morning, like you felt God led you. Something kept telling me to open that post (I had not opened one from him for days) so I did, and we see the result, as you think God led you to what you think heb 6 is saying, I feel god led me to open that post of his, for what reason? I do not know, I can only, like you trust him,

Did God really do it? Maybe he did, maybe he did not, but we see what the result was and it was something that could have been prevented if

1, he took the time to see what I really said

2, like you he came to realize he made a mistake and said he was sorry he misunderstood me.

it it would be easy to resolve, all meggido would have to do is do as you did, and admit he made a mistake in understand what I was saying, he can still do that, or he can still be stuck in pride and refuse to admit anything he says about me is wrong, even when proven,


i forgive him, just as I forgave you, before you even asked it, and h do s not need to ask me for my forgiveness for him to get it, as god frgave me, I flove give others,

but it does. It mean I have no right to stand up to someone who is obviously slandering others, and refuses to repent, just like Paul stood up to Peter and called him out. We are to chasten people for doing wrong,

Hi EG...I love you both very much, and it just hurts my heart to see you both this way, if it hurts my heart, then i can only imagine that the Holy Spirit is grieved by you both...You are both to blame with your tossing and throwing at each other, from where i am looking, you are both showing the same behaviour regardless when it started ...One of you are going to have to break the pride that is standing in between you both, it`s ok to debate, it`s healthy, but the hatred that is shown between you both is not walking in the Spirit, you both need to go back to basic and re-read the fruit of the Holy Spirit...I learn from both of you when you are both being led by the Holy Spirit, but as soon as you both connect the fighting starts, it`s ugly to see this and it does not help when you both have team mates adding fuel to the fire...I will pray that God restores you both, with man it`s impossible, but with God, ALL things are possible...xox...

 

[dcontroversal]

what makes you think I would take it?

To me it is a question with no value.....God is clear....the delusion is sent unto all who will not receive the love of the truth that they might be saved....No saved child of God will take the mark....end of story......!

 

[Cee]

Again, the difference of opinion here is based solely on what you define fruit to be...not all fruit Jesus talks about is Fruit of the Spirit....Jesus had 12 fruits and sent out 70 more....I answered you just fine...but to appease your cleverness, I will say yes. knowing God=loving one another...

When we see grace and that is all we want to see, that is all we will ever see and we will never see truth....both grace and truth work together...

The problem I see is far too many people latch onto grace and it blinds them to truth...

Okay my friend.

Then I'll give you straight truth.

You said, "I answered you just fine...but to appease your cleverness, I will say yes. knowing God=loving one another..."

You automatically assumed I was trying to be "clever" instead of what was true is that I was trying to have an intelligent and spiritual conversation with you.

I've already recognized you as someone who is spiritually discerning.

So then let me ask you this: If you truly believe love is our guiding principle shouldn't it be what we FIRST agree on before we build further together?

And this: What spirit/lie are you believing about me to assume I am trying to "twist things" or "manipulate you"?

I'll address those concerns directly.

I have no interest in either of those things.

I am perfectly okay with you disagreeing with me. I simply prefer to understand why someone disagrees with me. Not because they just don't like what I say or have labeled me in "some category".

I'm not here to lead anyone astray. I have no hidden motive. I am not answering you in any certain way. I have no interest in any form of persuasion, manipulation, or 'cleverness'.

I am here for hopefully the same reasons as you to share and also to receive.

Many do call me a teacher, but I do not. At least not with my words, I would much rather my life teach people. And that unfortunately is not something we can see about each other here.

So we have to go with this limited form of communication.

I would love to discuss grace and truth with you once we get passed this hurdle of you questioning my intentions. Tell me when we have.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Nope, I haven't seen you calling anyone a heretic.

Here's what you did say:

"and defending those who are, by saying everyone is a heretic to someone, is nonsense and proves absolutely nothing"

If there are no heretics here, who is defending those who are?

But I agree we shouldn't defend heretics who are saying Jesus isn't the only way to God.

I believe it so much that I wrote a rather long post (with extensive Scriptural support) about how Jesus has ALWAYS been the ONLY way to God.

But - no one in here is directly saying Jesus isn't the only way to God.

So I agree. There is no heresy being taught here.

So let's not defend the people who are abusively calling others heretics because they don't agree with their interpretation of Scripture.

It's not loving or Scriptural as G7 as shown several times in Scripture.

I'm not referring to you, but you'd think people who are obsessively telling others they need to obey Jesus would be the first to obey it themselves.

And what's equally not loving is saying someone's interpretation of Scripture is wrong without showing them why we believe so.

The key word is: believe so.

That means there is some humility that maybe, just maybe I can learn from other people's interpretation of Scripture. And I shouldn't immediately call people heretics because they see things different to me.

If we do that, we simply gather around those we agree with, and we've aligned with the twisted spirit of denominationalism instead of discipleship which tells us iron sharpens iron.

"and defending those who are, by saying everyone is a heretic to someone, is nonsense and proves absolutely nothing"

If there are no heretics here, who is defending those who are?

okay...gotcha on that question

referring to the links G7 posts...hyper grace teachers and NAR s. the expression everyone is a heretic to someone is one of G7's happy little expressions...he knows what I think of it. I'm straight with people. If I want to say something about what they post, I do...to the person. this is not about him though...but the expression

I believe it so much that I wrote a rather long post (with extensive Scriptural support) about how Jesus has ALWAYS been the ONLY way to God.

always and forever

from Genesis right to the last letter in Revelation. amen

So let's not defend the people who are abusively calling others heretics because they don't agree with their interpretation of Scripture.

who would they be? seriously, please supply a post or two...I don't read all the posts from everyone all the time and some none of the time

I have seen some posts reflecting beliefs that I would say have crossed the line while I still do not believe the person is a heretic

and don't ask me which...I'm not on the hot seat here...

by the way, have you decided if you are still believing?

I will point out that some people just do not seem to actually read a post but react because of who posted it

I know you are pretty reasonable Cee, but we do part ways in certain things

respectfully

however, what I do appreciate is that it appears you are still willing to discuss and not just slam, call names and tell people to leave the thread as some have done