Not By Works

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preacher4truth said:
To truly believe entails all the graces upon the believer instilled by God at conversion; faith, repentance, sealing of the Spirit, evidence of conversion, ongoing sanctification, maturity, perseverance &c. These are never to be stated as things the person must start doing to gain eternal salvation, nor to maintain such; these are instead evidences of grace and genuine conversion.

This is the sense of the true believer given in John 5:24; Truly, truly, I say into you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

No one here (as far as I can tell) is making belief into "mental assent to facts" while declaring the person saved no "matter what thereafter."

Yet this seems to be the straw man accusation some attempt to pin upon others (us) in our discussions.

Perhaps this is the belief of hyper-grace proponents, I do not know, of it is, it is certainly not biblical. I do know this is the position of Free Grace Theology, technically speaking. There may be some here who believe this, but it is up to them to state their position.
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Its the old "sinners prayer" straw man, no one here teaches a person can just say some sinners prayer and be saved apart from true repentance and faith.

anyon can say a prayer, only God knows who means it though.

The He issue is they try to make God human, like he can not know who has tru saving faith, so he needs proof.
 
7seasrekeyed said:
no. we see a changed Peter ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST. AFTER the Holy Spirit fell.


you do believe Jesus had to die and be restored to life by the Father BEFORE the new covenant was enacted, right?

so, if saving faith is believing in our Lord Jesus Christ, as the only begotten son of God, who died for our sins and rose again and lives forevermore at the right hand of the Father and to Whom God has given all things and put all things under His feet and Who has the power to grant eternal life to those who believe, then how was Peter or anyone else saved?

I point you again to the covenant between Abraham and God. God made that covenant with Abraham. What did God ultimately ask of Abraham? didn't He tell Abraham to sacrifice Issac? and didn't Abraham OBEY?

God stopped his hand but ONLY when Abraham was sure to have obeyed, standing over his long awaited promised son, with sacrificial knife in his hand. God provided a sacrifice (He still does)

then we also have Moses whom God sought to kill because of his DISOBEDIENCE. Moses' wife took care of the matter

BOTH testify PRIOR to the ten commandments.

It is obvious that God never intended salvation through the keeping of a set of rules. HOWEVER, it is also obvious the covenant is ONLY in affect, when the 2nd party, us, OBEYS...ie Abraham obeying and the possible deathly consequences of NOT obeying we see in Moses

that is not a work. God has kept His part of the covenant by sending His Son. His Son was obedient unto death.

We, accept Jesus as our Savior in order to become a part of the NC God extends. We enact and show the covenant true when we obey, as did Christ, our example in all things

this is not about works. please try not to confuse it with works

but if you note, works are the acceptable and expected outcome of faith...saving faith...in Christ

and then further, after we have the simple works, outward expressions of our faith, we have the gifts of the Holy Spirit that are given as the discretion of God, by His Spirit

you cannot teach a person how to be anointed. you cannot teach a person what God gives as HE chooses

I would say you can impart a gift as per scripture, but many hands imparting a so called gift are actually imparting demons

and that has become Christianity 101 and most deny it
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The new covenant is not an agreement with two parties. Its the will of inheritance left by the Lord for His body. Our obedience is to receive this. Then Holy Spirit takes up the work where Jesus left off.

I agree with you on some things but not this.

The Abraham covenant has been fulfilled by the Cross and resurrection, and we are children of faith.

I don't see too much of ourselves being part and parcel of our salvation since God knows the end from the beginning. Why would He seal those who are going to fail Him? Then give His power?

No, He finishes what He started through the work of Holy Spirit.
 
I did not see anywhere where you said that people in mega churches do not talk to each other. ;)

I think there was a little eisegesis being done.


Magenta said:
Yeah, like you changed my words. You lie about what I said and then blame me for your false accusations against me. You have done it quite a few times.
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BeyondET said:
The one who hates to use verse and chapter numbers so others know where to find it, I've even seen you use verses like they were your own words. You are nothing but a puppet on a string of your master.
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Another of your lies, since I often give chapter and verse. What is your problem? Really???
 
Rosemaryx said:
Hhi Meggido...Am i right in thinking that people in the OT were saved by Faith and made sacrifices of blood to cover their guilt and this was done once a year:confused:...But then when Jesus died, His Sacrifice covered all, no more blood needs to be shed, no more going to the high priests to be cleansed, so now we live in the NT, we live by faith through Grace...xox...
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Hey sis, what does the author of Hebrews say about the priest and animal sacrifice did it ever make true atonement?

Heb 10: For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[c] 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
 
NoNameMcgee said:
i have had people suggest to me you can not know or follow Gods will without a good attendance at a building...
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I have to say that after i got saved, i had no one, not one single person but the Holy Spirit teaching me, i did watch a few programs to help me, but even then i had to be aware that i was not being led a stray...For one whole year i studied my bible while recovering from mental illness, just God and I...Yes i now know it`s important to study with others, i now attend a lovely little bible study group just on my door step...I remember asking God to give me Christian friends, i was so lonely not being able to share my faith, He blessed me by leading me to my now Christian brothers and sisters:D...God knows those who have no one, but then when we feel alone, He reminds us of who He is and He will never leave us nor forsake us...xox...
 
Meggido said:
seems to me you started the rant against traditional and mega churches ....
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Hahaha, around and around again, I think she's got something towards men or something, that's mostly the ones who get the brunt of it.

[video=youtube;eh8eb_ACLl8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh8eb_ACLl8[/video]
 
UnderGrace said:
I did not see anywhere where you said that people in mega churches do not talk to each other. ;)

I think there was a little eisegesis being done.
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A little, or a LOT? ;)

In fact he made quite a few statements that did not reflect what
I said at all, so he just defined himself as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

BeyondET said:
... weave a web of baiting, word twisting, thought projecting, and you have wolf in sheep clothing,
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eternally-gratefull said:
Hey sis, what does the author of Hebrews say about the priest and animal sacrifice did it ever make true atonement?

Heb 10: For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[c] 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
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Hi EG...That`s what i meant, only the blood from the animals could take their guilt away and not the sin, that`s why Jesus died for us, He has taken away the sins of the world Praise God \o/...xox...
 
Rosemaryx said:
Hi EG...That`s what i meant, only the blood from the animals could take their guilt away and not the sin, that`s why Jesus died for us, He has taken away the sins of the world Praise God \o/...xox...
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ok I will have t think about this, never heard it before.. lol, but it makes sense, if you have your guilt removed, it can't hurt you, when we feel guilty, we are pretty much dead and useless to God, we are wallowing in self pity,

It yeah, no one was saved truly apart from th cross, OT or NT does not matter,
 
NoNameMcgee said:
i wont judge a church for its size....

but i DO agree fellowship is an amazing blessing

its just a shame not everyone has the luxury of traditional fellowship

meeting at a small building big building or a home


some people are oppressed even by their own family

but God wont keep the truth from them if they seek him
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Big or small, the truth is what matters.
 
Magenta said:
Another of your lies, since I often give chapter and verse. What is your problem? Really???
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You go black widow, that's your motto to fight to the bitter end until you have no teeth nor claws left, then you'll gum on your own neck.
 
Meggido said:
Many here profess OT saints were saved as they are....by grace through faith...

After today I am seeing another wrinkle, that many of them confuse Paul doing battle agaisnt the Mosaic law and say Paul is battling works....

Very few OSAS/ES believers seem to not fathom covenant truth anymore....there was a time that even the most ardent OSAS/ES believer acknowledged at least the old and the New covenant....as evidenced here, proper truth is obscured and even lost...some of these folks are stating OT saints were saved by faith and grace and one seemed to say they did not even need the shedding of blood for forgiveness of their sin....I have asked a few before placing them on ignore...how can an OT saint be saved under the provisions of the New Covenant, when Jesus had not even died yet.....answer...faith and grace....
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Paul did rebuke both Peter and James.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
How could one be saved by Old covenant law?

moses gave them the ultimatum of how they could be saved,

they had to not only confirm, but obey every letter, failure to do so brought forth a curse, (see Gal 3 with duet 27: 26)

which meant if a person sinned even even one time, they were doomed forever

that is why God introduced the sacrificial system as a tool to show, no one can fulfill the law and save themselves, for that reason, an inocent had to die to redeem or atone for your sins, because you can not save yourself you are lost under just one sin and no one is sinless,

jesus became that lamb, the redeemer Abraham David and job understood about the redeemer the prophets prophesied about, the lamb of God who would pay for the sins of the world, all te sin from Adam until the last man.

It is troubling that that people think anyone is saved by OT law, it is sadly telling that the same people do not believe in eternal security.
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Had to come off ignore to speak to this...

Not one person has said they believed the Law or Old Covenant saved anyone......not one person....
 
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