The Rapture
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In a thread once similar to this those then at this same point researched and debated the difference (from a 2-3 thou. mindset) and it became very interesting in that in their customs for a prince(kings son) to ride up to another city on an ass to be seen as peaceful intent instead of a horse or chariot(war threat). Anyway, if you google it you'll find stuff from both camps so one from one position and then web pages from another(so chose your flavour,lol). That was in the early 90's (old thread) and I didn’t see any difference either till then (just food for thought),,,
Zechariah 9:9-11 KJV
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
[11] As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
It's probably just coincidence that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a horse, bringing salvation, taking the battle bow from earthly Jerusalem, and having dominion from sea to sea and delivering the old testament saints from the pit and wearing a crown of thorns.... there's no way that's Revelation 6:2 lol.
Every word is established at the mouth of two or three witnesses, if this isn't the second witness to Revelation 6:2 then where can that second witness be found?
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
[11] As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
It's probably just coincidence that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a horse, bringing salvation, taking the battle bow from earthly Jerusalem, and having dominion from sea to sea and delivering the old testament saints from the pit and wearing a crown of thorns.... there's no way that's Revelation 6:2 lol.
Every word is established at the mouth of two or three witnesses, if this isn't the second witness to Revelation 6:2 then where can that second witness be found?
HERE:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
John 14:2-3 (ASV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
That "I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU" not only gives clear indication that WE are going to be taken there, but ALSO, gives us clear information WHY WE ARE BEING TAKEN THERE. That expression comes straight out of an Orthodox Jewish Marriage Proposal. It was the last thing the Bridegroom would say to his Bride after she accepted the Proposal. THEN HE WOULD RETURN TO HIS FATHER'S HOUSE TO BUILD THAT NEW DWELLING PLACE FOR HIS BRIDE, remaining seperate from her until after HIS FATHER approved the new dwelling place. THEN he would come with his wedding party, and stop some distance off, sending the member of his wedding Party he had chosen to go on to the old dwelling place of the bride to SHOUT and Call Her OUT, and that chosen one would take her to where Her Bridegroom was waiting. THAT HAS BEEN THE ORTHODOX JEWISH WEDDING TRADITIONS OR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. JESUS Our Bridegroom has already CHOSEN the Archangel to SHOUT and CALL US OUT.
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The church was not removed from the earth - Christ came to dwell with the church.
1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (Greek– parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet (Greek- apantesis) the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The Greek parousia and apantesis would have specific meanings to the people of 1st century AD.
Greek definitions (not all)
parousia - presence, of persons; arrival; esp. Visit of a royal or official personage
apantesis - to move from a place to meet a person; then, generally, to meet, encounter
Paul's usage of the words do not suggest a removal of Christians from earth, but rather Christ is visiting them to dwell with them.
Parousia and apantesis when used together are being used in a “technical” sense, the words in the ancient world would be used (and understood) to describe a visit by a king or a royal dignitary when making a visit to a town or a city.
The people being in wait for the dignitary would watch for his coming, they would then go out to “meet” (apantesis) him.They would then escort him back to the city. The city is the destination. He was not coming to remove them from the city.
We can see how “apantesis”, meet is used in the following verses:
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet (Greek– apantesis) the bridegroom.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bride groom cometh; go ye out to meet (Greek- apantesis) him.
Acts 28:15 And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet (Greek– apantesis) us as far as Appii forum, and the three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.
Paul is telling the Thessalonian's they will meet him in the air in a spiritual event – his coming in the clouds – just as Paul was caught up to the third heaven.
1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (Greek– parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet (Greek- apantesis) the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The Greek parousia and apantesis would have specific meanings to the people of 1st century AD.
Greek definitions (not all)
parousia - presence, of persons; arrival; esp. Visit of a royal or official personage
apantesis - to move from a place to meet a person; then, generally, to meet, encounter
Paul's usage of the words do not suggest a removal of Christians from earth, but rather Christ is visiting them to dwell with them.
Parousia and apantesis when used together are being used in a “technical” sense, the words in the ancient world would be used (and understood) to describe a visit by a king or a royal dignitary when making a visit to a town or a city.
The people being in wait for the dignitary would watch for his coming, they would then go out to “meet” (apantesis) him.They would then escort him back to the city. The city is the destination. He was not coming to remove them from the city.
We can see how “apantesis”, meet is used in the following verses:
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet (Greek– apantesis) the bridegroom.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bride groom cometh; go ye out to meet (Greek- apantesis) him.
Acts 28:15 And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet (Greek– apantesis) us as far as Appii forum, and the three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.
Paul is telling the Thessalonian's they will meet him in the air in a spiritual event – his coming in the clouds – just as Paul was caught up to the third heaven.
You cant because its not there. That's why the Church didn't see it for 1800 years or so and still doesn't. The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth.Those who believe in a Pre Trib Rapture are actually saying that the Holy Spirit withheld this important bit of information from the whole Church until the nineteenth Century. Why would this occur when the second coming is clearly explained throughout the Bible?
In Acts Peter states that Christ would remain in Heaven until the consumation of all things. That happens after the tribulation not before it so it rules out him leaving heaven until the second coming.
In Acts Peter states that Christ would remain in Heaven until the consumation of all things. That happens after the tribulation not before it so it rules out him leaving heaven until the second coming.
You are not a farm boy are you?
One is the Symbol for the Democratic party, and never used to ride into War. And the other was used for WAR HORSES.
Now tell me which you would rather ride into battle on:
One is the Symbol for the Democratic party, and never used to ride into War. And the other was used for WAR HORSES.
Now tell me which you would rather ride into battle on:
Seeing Jesus presented himself as KING on a donkey, I think I would rather ride into battle with his choice of horse breed. Maybe after you get through explaining to God why Daniel 9:27 is the antuchrist, you can tell him that he should have picked a stronger breed of horse lol.
I have actually rode on both donkeys and horses, im a redneck so it goes without saying. From the backwoods 
What is civilization?
One advantage donkeys have over horses is they are easier to ride for beginners since they automatically know how to canter and 'gallop' more softly. With horses you need to learn how to maneuver a certain way when galloping.
What is civilization?One advantage donkeys have over horses is they are easier to ride for beginners since they automatically know how to canter and 'gallop' more softly. With horses you need to learn how to maneuver a certain way when galloping.
I have actually rode on both donkeys and horses, im a redneck so it goes without saying. From the backwoods What is civilization?
One advantage donkeys have over horses is they are easier to ride for beginners since they automatically know how to canter and 'gallop' more softly. With horses you need to learn how to maneuver a certain way when galloping.
What is civilization?One advantage donkeys have over horses is they are easier to ride for beginners since they automatically know how to canter and 'gallop' more softly. With horses you need to learn how to maneuver a certain way when galloping.
This is only because you aren't a student of history. If you were, we would likely agree on just about everything
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I don't know of any book written by men that doesn't promote the mystery religions.
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And when was the tribulation? I believe the quote from Acts is the "restoration" of all things, not the consummation, although Jerusalem was surely consumed.
. We are in the tribulation or the time of Jacobs trouble signified by a thousand years. The Jews in respect to the outward flesh lost their temporal identities to be used as shadows that were used until Christ came in the flesh for a one time demonstration. The renting of the veil signifying it is finished. It was the time of the promised reformation, the beginning of the last days marked by the word thousand, an unknown .