The Rapture

[Locutus]

THEY DID SEE IT AT THE STONING OF STEPHEN.

I don't think so Tim.

Acts 7:56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, “I am; and YOU shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

Standing is not the same as sitting or "COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN"

And of course you are assuming that the others present saw the Son of Man, not one mention that they did - you need to quit making up "scripture".

But then you haven't a clue what coming with the clouds of heaven means.

Carry on with your tap dance

around the actual words of Jesus because they don't fit with your fawlty tower of "theology"..

 

[Bladerunner]

I don't think so Tim.

Acts 7:56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, “I am; and YOU shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

Standing is not the same as sitting or "COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN"

And of course you are assuming that the others present saw the Son of Man, not one mention that they did - you need to quit making up "scripture".

But then you haven't a clue what coming with the clouds of heaven means.

Carry on with your tap dance

around the actual words of Jesus because they don't fit with your fawlty tower of "theology"..

Yes, Stephen said this....You did notice that Jesus was standing not sitting. Rem...Jesus is a King and a Priest. Within the temple, there are no chairs, the attending priest only stand.... This is what JEsus is doing at this time. Standing as a Priest would at the time of Stephen's death. In fact, I think he said those words and went to sleep.

The coming with the clouds are different...

 

[J7]

Lol. That is a bad joke.
You are totally off base again VCO, you have confused the Abrahamic Covenant with the Mosaic Covenant....

Now you are sounding like a Hippie flower child!

Now compare YOUR CONCEPT to what GOD ACTUALLY SAYS:

Psalm 105:8-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] He remembers His covenant forever, the promise He ordained for a thousand generations—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] ⌊the covenant⌋ He made with Abraham, swore to Isaac,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and confirmed to Jacob as a decree and to Israel as an everlasting covenant:
[SUP]11 [/SUP] “I will give the land of Canaan to you as your inherited portion.”


Psalm 103:7-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] He revealed His ways to Moses, His deeds to the people of Israel.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and rich in faithful love.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] He will not always accuse ⌊us⌋ or be angry forever.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] He has not dealt with us as our sins deserve or repaid us according to our offenses.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is His faithful love toward those who fear Him.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.


Jeremiah 3:12 (CSBBible)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Go, proclaim these words to the north, and say,
'Return, unfaithful Israel'.
This is the LORD's declaration.
I will not look on you with anger,
for I am unfailing in my love.
This is the LORD's declaration.
I will not be angry forever.



Genesis 12:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I will make you into a great nation, I will bless you, I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I will bless those who bless you, I will curse those who treat you with contempt, and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you.



2 Chronicles 9:8 (NCV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Praise the LORD your God who was pleased to make you king. He has put you on his throne to rule for the LORD your God, because your God loves the people of Israel and supports them forever. He has made you king over them to keep justice and to rule fairly.“


Isaiah 5:7 (NCV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The vineyard belonging to the LORD All-Powerful is the nation of Israel; the garden that he loves is the people of Judah. He looked for justice, but there was only killing. He hoped for right living, but there were only cries of pain.



Zechariah 1:14-17 (NCV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Then the angel who was talking to me said to me, “Announce this: This is what the LORD All-Powerful says: ’I have a strong love for Jerusalem.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And I am very angry with the nations that feel so safe. I was only a little angry at them, but they made things worse.’
[SUP]16 [/SUP] “So this is what the LORD says: ’I will return to Jerusalem with mercy. My Temple will be rebuilt,’ says the LORD All-Powerful, ’and the measuring line will be used to rebuild Jerusalem.’
[SUP]17 [/SUP] “Also announce: This is what the LORD All-Powerful says: ’My towns will be rich again. The LORD will comfort Jerusalem again, and I will again choose Jerusalem.’ “

 

[J7]

And perhaps you are taking a joke too far.

I'll ask God if he is offended then

 

[J7]

I like your sense of humor, LOL.

but since you bring the sixties into it VCO, I personally would not endorse Monty Python, not because of the childish schoolboy humour which does nothing for me, but because the final scenes of The Life Of Brian are openly blasphemous, and let's face it, that is the true demonic spirit of 60's deception at work

 

[valiant]

NO, GOD SAYS IT.


Romans 11:25-27 (NRSV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] So that you may not claim to be wiser than you are, brothers and sisters, I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "Out of Zion will come the Deliverer; he will banish ungodliness from Jacob."
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins."


GEE IT EVEN SAYS IT IN THE KJV:


Romans 11:25-27 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

But the question is, does ALL ISRAEL refer to physical Israel or spiritual Israel. Rom 9.6 began the discussion by pointing out that they were not all Israel who were of Israel.

 

[valiant]

And he believes the heaven (atmosphere) and earth were destroyed in 70 AD, and he believes the Resurrections of the Saints happened in 70 AD. And he thinks everybody else does not understand the Bible.

Whoever taught him all that, was definitely one of these:

How come your wolf has sheep's legs?

 

[J7]

But the question is, does ALL ISRAEL refer to physical Israel or spiritual Israel. Rom 9.6 began the discussion by pointing out that they were not all Israel who were of Israel.

Romans 11 is not for the spiritually immature, let alone the ungodly.

Here it is physical Israel though

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

But the question is, does ALL ISRAEL refer to physical Israel or spiritual Israel. Rom 9.6 began the discussion by pointing out that they were not all Israel who were of Israel.

Romans 11 is not for the spiritually immature, let alone the ungodly.

Here it is physical Israel though

Rom 11 began by illustrating that not all Israel were of Israel. There was an Israel that was within Israel. It seems therefore Paul disagreed with you

Those who will be saved are the fulness of the Gentiles and all of true Israel.

 

[J7]

Rom 11 began by illustrating that not all Israel were of Israel. There was an Israel that was within Israel. It seems therefore Paul disagreed with you

Those who will be saved are the fulness of the Gentiles and all of true Israel.

(that was not aimed at you )

The thread of Romans 11 really starts at Romans 9. Paul did not use Chapters in his letters.

What he explains is that the excommunicated northern tribes were brought back into covenant by Christ.
so the general gist is the dynamic between Judah and Ephraim, and how this is used to propagate the gospel amongst the nations.

 

[heartofdavid]

12 tribes.
That is the baseline,not judah/israel.

Much was invested to preserve the 12 tribes.

 

[heartofdavid]

What do you want to call the 12 tribes?

Israel?

Judah?

Judah was only one tribe

 

[Issachar92]

Just letting yall folks know a lil something that "no man knows the day or the hour" is actually a hebrew idiom.
Its related to Rosh Hashanah and the trumpet being blown with 2 watchers not knowing the exact timing of when it is because it has to do with moon and sun as the hebrew calendar does.

 

[Denadii]

How come your wolf has sheep's legs?

LOL Thats a sheep wearing a wolf mask, and an overcoat. I like the zipper

 

[VCO]

I don't think so Tim.

Acts 7:56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, “I am; and YOU shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

Standing is not the same as sitting or "COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN"

And of course you are assuming that the others present saw the Son of Man, not one mention that they did - you need to quit making up "scripture".

But then you haven't a clue what coming with the clouds of heaven means.

Carry on with your tap dance

around the actual words of Jesus because they don't fit with your fawlty tower of "theology"..

2 Peter 3:3-4 (CSBBible)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Above all, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days scoffing and following their own evil desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, "Where is his 'coming' that he promised? Ever since our ancestors fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation."


Mark 14:62 (NKJV)
[SUP]62 [/SUP] Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."


Acts 7:51 (HCSB)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] “You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are always resisting the Holy Spirit; as your ancestors did, so do you.


Acts 7:55-56 (HCSB)
[SUP]55 [/SUP] But Stephen, filled by the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven. He saw God’s glory, with Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and he said,
[SUP]56 [/SUP] “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”


AND:


Revelation 19:11-14 (NCV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw heaven opened, and there before me was a white horse. The rider on the horse is called Faithful and True, and he is right when he judges and makes war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes are like burning fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him, which no one but himself knows.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, were following him on white horses.


Daniel 7:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] I continued watching in the night visions, and I saw One like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was escorted before Him.


Mark 13:24-26 (ASV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.



He is not coming with great power and glory, when he appears in the air to Call Out His Bride.

HE IS COMING WITH GREAT POWER AND GLORY WHEN HE COMES AS KING OF KINGS TO MAKE WAR ON THE NATIONS ATTACKING JERUSALEM.

 

[VCO]

Yes, Stephen said this....You did notice that Jesus was standing not sitting. Rem...Jesus is a King and a Priest. Within the temple, there are no chairs, the attending priest only stand.... This is what JEsus is doing at this time. Standing as a Priest would at the time of Stephen's death. In fact, I think he said those words and went to sleep.

The coming with the clouds are different...

HE WAS SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER, and STOOD AS STEPHEN WAS DYING. SO the High Priest looked up before Stephen did.


Matthew 26:63-64 (HCSB)
[SUP]63 [/SUP] But Jesus kept silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “By the living God I place You under oath: tell us if You are the Messiah, the Son of God!”
[SUP]64 [/SUP] “You have said it,” Jesus told him. “But I tell you, in the future you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

 

[Locutus]

It's you that is the scoffer by not believing what Christ said:

Matt 24:30 “And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Matt 24:30 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

 

[PlainWord]

God bless you and make it successful

Thanks you all. Had hip replaced 24 hours ago. Already walking around with help. Should be home tomorrow. On lap top.

 

[Locutus]

Thanks you all. Had hip replaced 24 hours ago. Already walking around with help. Should be home tomorrow. On lap top.

That's good to hear PLW - now you won't be going round in circles...

 

[PlainWord]

I see none of my futurists friends took up the challenge to explain the below passage in detail from Mat 3. What's the matter, cat got your collective tongues?

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]11 [/SUP]I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. [SUP]12 [/SUP]His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”