Not By Works
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Why do you assume things about me that you do not know? It reflects poorly on you. Plus, you are WRONG. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. Three times what I said is affirmed right there. Open your eyes.
ignorance, to all scripture quoted , mmm
yet claims to understand ,how a saviour saved humans, with grace a gift, yet keeps returning to ask the snake, why there is a romans 5 . chapter, in the same bible he reads from.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
Again, Can a believer have faith and not have works. I did not ask you about judgment day, I asked you right here right now. can a person have faith, and have no work?
Is it that hard of a question?
yet claims to understand ,how a saviour saved humans, with grace a gift, yet keeps returning to ask the snake, why there is a romans 5 . chapter, in the same bible he reads from.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Is the thread pretty much done when you begin asking the question that created the mess in the first place...
Again, Can a believer have faith and not have works. I did not ask you about judgment day, I asked you right here right now. can a person have faith, and have no work?
Is it that hard of a question?
I agree 100% with your statement.
In fairness - I can see why people would say that there is easy believism because some people have "mental assent" to Jesus and the word of God and thus they try to mimic the Christian life and then they walk away from the organized church because they can't do it.
No one can live the true Christian life - only the One living in and through us can live His life. Gal. 2:20 & Col. 3:3
So, I can understand people's point in this but there is a better way of saying it other then to condemn it by calling it "easy believism" or "grace only" as these are not sound words.
It is only by believing in Christ that we are saved and this is all because of His grace through faith in Christ's work when we hear the message of Him. Eph. 1:13
Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
"
[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Romans 5:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
In fairness - I can see why people would say that there is easy believism because some people have "mental assent" to Jesus and the word of God and thus they try to mimic the Christian life and then they walk away from the organized church because they can't do it.
No one can live the true Christian life - only the One living in and through us can live His life. Gal. 2:20 & Col. 3:3
So, I can understand people's point in this but there is a better way of saying it other then to condemn it by calling it "easy believism" or "grace only" as these are not sound words.
It is only by believing in Christ that we are saved and this is all because of His grace through faith in Christ's work when we hear the message of Him. Eph. 1:13
Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
"
[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Romans 5:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
how many different religions are on this planet,
when you work ,out this small words meaning to all.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
living in the world, and living in heaven, have two different meaning. etc
Originally Posted by joefizz
yes silence is better sometimes when someone is ready to just dismiss your views or even "facts",so thereby being a little silly to answer when you know what the result will be,simple.
when you work ,out this small words meaning to all.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
living in the world, and living in heaven, have two different meaning. etc
yes silence is better sometimes when someone is ready to just dismiss your views or even "facts",so thereby being a little silly to answer when you know what the result will be,simple.
Easy Believism:
John 5: 24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will NOT come under judgment but has passed from death to life.
Please note: Jesus taught this to people who might never hear another statement from Him again. And it was TRUTH. This idea that you need more than belief is ridiculous!! Equally ridiculous is the idea that belief doesn't lead to good works.
It is the result of us having eternal life and having passed from death to life. That we fulfill the commandments of Scripture to have good works. There are NO good works without having already partaken of life. Because without Christ NONE seek God and do right.
Yet now in Christ, we are commanded to draw near to Him as He draws near to us.
This is made possible by the transformative work done in our heart in Christ through belief.
If we truly want to see people walk after God, I suggest we focus on the POWER of belief not trying to negate it.
John 5: 24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will NOT come under judgment but has passed from death to life.
Please note: Jesus taught this to people who might never hear another statement from Him again. And it was TRUTH. This idea that you need more than belief is ridiculous!! Equally ridiculous is the idea that belief doesn't lead to good works.
It is the result of us having eternal life and having passed from death to life. That we fulfill the commandments of Scripture to have good works. There are NO good works without having already partaken of life. Because without Christ NONE seek God and do right.
Yet now in Christ, we are commanded to draw near to Him as He draws near to us.
This is made possible by the transformative work done in our heart in Christ through belief.
If we truly want to see people walk after God, I suggest we focus on the POWER of belief not trying to negate it.
A
Wow....seriously disappointed by some of the immaturity displayed...
Anyway G777...this statement sounds so strange..
"
No one can live the true Christian life - only the One living in and through us can live His life. Gal. 2:20 & Col. 3:3"
It's why folks accuse you of believe we are robots....
Perhaps you could reword it or something..
I would say that we are only able to live the Christian life if the Holy spirit empowers us.....to say that no one can live the Christian life just sounds off.
Anyway G777...this statement sounds so strange..
"
No one can live the true Christian life - only the One living in and through us can live His life. Gal. 2:20 & Col. 3:3"
It's why folks accuse you of believe we are robots....
Perhaps you could reword it or something..
I would say that we are only able to live the Christian life if the Holy spirit empowers us.....to say that no one can live the Christian life just sounds off.
W
true again Phart.....King Saul was given a new heart by God and he fell away, same with Solomon, and King Joash, who was a servant of God, fell into grievous sin and departed from the faith after the priest Jehoiada died. And kings Jehu and Uzziah were others that fell from God's favor. Uzziah fell from the faith after his good friend the prophet Zechariah died.....and we know that Jesus redemptive blood was for all those before the cross as well as those after the cross, beings that God is no respecter of persons......be blessed
E
i guess you can say I am old school, i have no problem disagreeing with people, I do not agree with everyone on a lot of things, that is not my beef, that is not the problem here as you just attested to, I do not think we ever agreed, but we understood d where each other stood and moved on as adults, friends, and brothers in Christ, just like myself and stunned did earlier today, and myself and D.C. Did on our end tims disagreement, and many other people I do not always agree with.
what i I can not stand is bullying, slandering other people, mocking them, acting more like kids than adults because you did not get your way, it used to be when people acted that way and continued after being warned everyone stood up to them, and they were forced to stop their nonsense and discuss like adults, or were forced to leave, I guess those days are gone, universalism seems to run rampant, not only in religion, but society, people are afraid to stand up any more, then wonder why people act the way they do, and there is no peace.
Its fine though, I ignored them, I will still stand for what I believe, I will still appose a works based gospel with what I see, knowing I will be attacked because if it, but that's fine, people do not like it, that's why they act the way they do,
this is supposed to to be a bible discussion forum, could have fooled me. Very few want to discuss, and we can't discuss because of all the interruptions
if his is the chateoom people want, it is what they have,
what i I can not stand is bullying, slandering other people, mocking them, acting more like kids than adults because you did not get your way, it used to be when people acted that way and continued after being warned everyone stood up to them, and they were forced to stop their nonsense and discuss like adults, or were forced to leave, I guess those days are gone, universalism seems to run rampant, not only in religion, but society, people are afraid to stand up any more, then wonder why people act the way they do, and there is no peace.
Its fine though, I ignored them, I will still stand for what I believe, I will still appose a works based gospel with what I see, knowing I will be attacked because if it, but that's fine, people do not like it, that's why they act the way they do,
this is supposed to to be a bible discussion forum, could have fooled me. Very few want to discuss, and we can't discuss because of all the interruptions
if his is the chateoom people want, it is what they have,
My point is made once again.....
Originally Posted by UnderGrace
first you said this:
Repentance means to change one's mind, it is not about sorrow for sins.We change our minds and cease form our dead works and instead accept the works of Jesus who was perfect.
Then I said this:
Originally Posted by Meggido
Care to expalin the below verse for me then?
2 Cor 7.10
[SUP]10[/SUP]For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
You then said this:
Only thing I would change is "it is not only feeling sorrow for your sins" Repentance means more than sorrow that was my point
Then I said this:
I was really very nice to you above....I did not smack you down at first for such a willful and flagrant disregard for the TRUTH of the Word.....I allowed you the backpedal...but then you let pride get in the way and got all upset somebody called you out.....
I said you give grace bad name because you preach grace, but leave off the TRUTH that makes it amazing grace...
It is the small things that give them up...
first you said this:
Repentance means to change one's mind, it is not about sorrow for sins.We change our minds and cease form our dead works and instead accept the works of Jesus who was perfect.
Then I said this:
Care to expalin the below verse for me then?
2 Cor 7.10
[SUP]10[/SUP]For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
You then said this:
Only thing I would change is "it is not only feeling sorrow for your sins" Repentance means more than sorrow that was my point
Then I said this:
I was really very nice to you above....I did not smack you down at first for such a willful and flagrant disregard for the TRUTH of the Word.....I allowed you the backpedal...but then you let pride get in the way and got all upset somebody called you out.....
I said you give grace bad name because you preach grace, but leave off the TRUTH that makes it amazing grace...
It is the small things that give them up...
No one in their own natural will-power can live the Christian life. It's the whole abide in Me for without Me you can do nothing thingy. The Vine and the branches - it's the "sap" of the Vine that produces the fruit on the branches. The branches have no life apart from the Vine.
Without the understanding of the new creation in Christ - joined as one spirit with the Lord - the whole Christian life will be a blurr to us because we are trying to "mimic" a life and it is only the life of Christ in us that we live by now.
Colossians 3:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I have written many times on how transformation happens in the Christian life but I will do it again for any new viewers to the thread. I will do that in a separate post.
Well said! Thank you Grace777
Thank you Grace777 I just put a few of my favorite's that you posted, Peace and Grace to You!
Paul said in 1Corinthians 15:10 -that he worked harder than any other apostle, yet not Him but the grace of God with him.
I wonder if this "Christian" thing has anything to do with "grace" that is in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior?
It looks like we have received - grace upon grace through the Lord Jesus Christ
John 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
It looks like we "believe through grace"..
( I'm sure they really meant that we are saved because of the good works we do...)
Acts 18:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Paul said that it was the grace of God that would give the believers their inheritance and it was able to build them up.
( Maybe that's not really important...) "able to build you up" Imagine that
Acts 20:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is "able to build you up", and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
Paul said for Timothy to "be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus."
( He probably didn't really mean it.... )
2 Timothy 2:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
Conclusion - this "grace stuff" is really not important at all. We can "do our own works of righteousness in order to keep ourselves saved" - and God will be pleased with that....yeah right!.......
I wonder if this "Christian" thing has anything to do with "grace" that is in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior?
It looks like we have received - grace upon grace through the Lord Jesus Christ
John 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
It looks like we "believe through grace"..
( I'm sure they really meant that we are saved because of the good works we do...)
Acts 18:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Paul said that it was the grace of God that would give the believers their inheritance and it was able to build them up.
( Maybe that's not really important...) "able to build you up" Imagine that
Acts 20:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is "able to build you up", and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
Paul said for Timothy to "be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus."
( He probably didn't really mean it.... )
2 Timothy 2:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
Conclusion - this "grace stuff" is really not important at all. We can "do our own works of righteousness in order to keep ourselves saved" - and God will be pleased with that....yeah right!.......