FOR ARIEL:
Hi Ariel,
You asked me a serious question and I'm here to answer it.
You cannot know the meaning of all words from the bible in the Greek because it's too complicated.
It's not as easy as some would make it out to be.
So you have to trust the experts...
What you posted as to the meaning of believe is for the non-experts that have not studied the Language.
If you go to this site, which is 12 pages long (if I remember) you'll get a better idea of why knowing the
Greek is difficult many times.
This is for the word BELIEVE:
Strong's Greek: 4100. πιστεύω (pisteuó) -- to believe, entrust
Now, we want to compare that with the word OBEY which is similar and means almost the same thing.
This is for the word OBEY:
Strong's Greek: 5218. ὑπακοή (hupakoé) -- obedience
Now you have to sit down and compare the two.
Can YOU do it?
No. And neither can anyone here unless they know Koinè Greek.
So, we'd have to depend more on experts.
Here are a couple:
Greek Word Studies: Obey
Obey or Believe? It's All Greek to Me! | Worldview Everlasting
The second one is VERY INTERESTING.
Some here should read it too and stop discussing the Greek.
The translators of the bible knew all this and they did the best job they could.
EVERYTHING we need to know to be saved can be understood very easily.
The problem is that it does not WANT to be understood and so they Always go to the Greek, or to verbiage,
or to tenses. It's all nonsense for us to just not read our bible and understand it in a simple way.
No one here has a PhD in biblical studies.
I'm going to post the second one for everyone to read because not everyone goes to links. I certainly don't...
In this case it's very important...
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From the second link up above: World View Everlasting...
Obey or Believe? It’s All Greek to Me!
Hi pastor,
I have a question concerning the Greek word ‘hupakuo’.
In your Greek Tuesday videos, you said that when we see that word translated as ‘obedience’ in English, we can substitute it with ‘believe’.
But the online Greek Lexicons I checked showed it only to e translated as ‘to listen’, ‘to harken to a command’. I don’t see the ‘believe’ connection. Could you explain? Thanks. ~A
Hi A,
Firstly, (and sadly) many Protestants use Greek Lexicons that are focused on non-biblical literature, often dealing with much older Greek than the Koine of the New Testament period.
For this reason, I would always encourage caution when surfing the web for definitions of words. NT translation isn’t rocket science, but it isn’t Spanish 101 either.
Second, keep in mind that most Greek-English lexicons are also working with definitions of English that may have changed significantly in the 50 to 100 years since they were originally written.
With that said, the BDAG lexicon (the absolute best choice for biblical, Koine Greek) lists the meaning of hupakuo as “to follow instructions” which then can have synergy with “obey”, “follow”, and “be subject to”.
It also carries connotations with an idiom that means to “hearken at the sound of a door knock.” The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (bar none the best word study text available,) also notes, “the frequent use of h. for “shamah” [Hebrew “listen/hear”] in the LXX shows how strongly the idea of hearing is still present for the translator in the Greek h.
Hence, h. as terms for religions activity are always to be thought of within the sphere of a religion which receives divine Word by hearing and then translates it into action.”
Taking all of this into consideration, its a simple fact that the postmodern English “obey” simply does not convey the meaning of the word.
It carries with it an outside, heavily-weighted bias toward oppressive subjection and personal action. Particularly when St. Paul says to “h. the Gospel,” translating it as “obey” does violence to the meaning of the text.
The fact of the matter is that the best postmodern English word for conveying the meaning of h. is “believe,” precisely because to believe words is to hear them in such a way that they are recognized as true and valid, and to, when applicable, impel action.
It is a great heresy of the devil to strive to divide the idea of faith from the idea of resulting works, as it one who “believes” is not also “obeying” in the best sense of the term. One cannot believe the command, “Jump!” if one does not in fact jump. At the same time, one cannot obey a promise, period.
For that reason, my exhortation is that you lean Gospel in your reading of the Bible, rather than lean Law. The Law will always be there, plane and clear. It’s not going away – and we couldn’t make it go away if we wanted to.
But fallen humans don’t have a problem with assuming that everything is Gospel. We have a problem with assuming that even the Gospel is Law.
When traditional translations have shown themselves through careful study to be aiding and abetting the old man’s legalistic opinions in this matter, I say, “fight back!”
You’re never going to undermine the law by “believing” it rather than “obeying” it. In fact, to do one is to do the other. But you will undermine the Gospel by trying to “obey” it when the Gospel itself insists you can do no such thing, but must rather shut up, stop trying to self-justify and simply believe.
Hope that helps!
Rev Fisk
A,
Hupakuo is a combination of two ideas – hupo (meaning under – whether physically under or organized underneath, following) and akuo – which is hearing, sound (like “acoustics”).
The idea of hupakuo is that the hearing in question has an impact and effect – I will most often translate the word with “heed”.
If a command is given, you “heed” it by doing it. If a promise is given you “heed” it by believing the promise. Hence once can “heed” the Gospel – one hears and believes.
Hope this helps,
Rev. Eric J. Brown
Zion Lutheran Church – Lahoma, OK
belief, greek, lexicons, Obedience
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I certainly hope everyone reads this since I've been called all sorts of names here.
If we BELIEVE Jesus we will OBEY Jesus.
We CANNOT get away from this.
For anyone here not to be able to make this simple statment means a lot to me. It means they do not really understand the gospel.
We are under grace now. THE LAW HAS BEEN NAILED TO THE CROSS. NO ONE on this thread is under the law.
Sometimes I have to wonder if persons here even know what that means or they would not even mention it.
I also doubt some persons here understand what the grace of God really is.
They keep repeating that it's the grace of God that saves us.
WELL OF COURSE! What else could it be???? Is it even necessary to mention this???
They seem to want to divide GRACE and WORKS, saying that it's either one or the other.
NO.
Grace belongs to God. It has nothing to do with works.
What should be discussed is: Does faith produce works and what if it doesn't?
But BEFORE discussing anything at all, it should be made very clear what works are.
Do some here even care?
NO.
They just want to accuse Others and create division instead of discussion.
I'll only say there is great misunderstanding as to what works are.
And with that I leave.
I pray for Rosemary and StunnedbyGrace.
Two daughters that truly believe in our Lord and are desireous to follow Him.
I've made some nice friends here and hope to see them in the future.
I'm happy to say that I've recieved many likes from persons who do not even post, which is the ONLY reason
I carried on in this thread. So that all reading along may read both sides.
THERE SHOULD NOT BE two sides to this issue. I am truly in shock to have to hear that God requires NOTHING from us.
We don't need Greek.
We need bible believing Christians.
Originally Posted by royalscot
