Not By Works

[Ariel82]

Diplomatic immunity for God's ambassadors....

 

[UnderGrace]

.Christ Jesus.

no scripture is very plain

however the people reading it are full of contradictions

when someone states the laws as revealed in scripture are done away with, they contradict almost half the New Testament

Paul talks about the law all the time and tries to explain it

he tries to explain what it meant, what it means and how we are to see it

there is no law for those who are in Christ Jesus, but that does not mean go practice immorality

so what does it mean?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You were kicked out of a site for making fun of Benny Hinn?
How could that be? He's Always so fashionable.
You made fun of him??

Well. Some sites just can't take a joke.
They're soooooo serious.

IF Ralph EVER SHOWS UP, he'll make this place a party.

Yes! I was kicked out because I said I watched Benny Hinn once and he had people coming up on a stage in a very big building/stadium so they could be..."slain?" And a man and woman came up together, holding hands. So he smacked the woman on the forehead and she fell down with a man standing behind her who kind of like...let her body slide to the ground against his own body. But the man went down when she went down because they were holding hands. So Hinn said, pick him up! I didn't touch him! So the guy picked the man up, but see, they were still holding hands so the woman came up WITH him. So then Hinn smacked her forehead again to "slay" her again, but they were STILL holding hands, so down they both went again! I started laughing so hard that I peed my pants before I could get out of the chair with the dog and cat on me and by the time I ran back, Hinn had resolved it somehow I guess because they were both among those laying on the ground. So I was kicked out for mocking a preacher and mocking something I didn't understand and also for saying I peed my pants, which happens when I laugh too hard. (It's an old lady thing, sorry.) But I DID understand, and that's WHY I was laughing at him. It's like wrestling. Some swear it's not staged, but of COURSE it is. I laugh at wrestling (the few times I saw it when flipping channels when I used to watch tv) the same way. Why would you not laugh at the ridiculousness? Actually, I thought they would have had a good reason to kick me out for not being sober about the people he hooks on his snake oil, but that is not the reason they did it. It was because they thought if one laughed at Hinn, it would encourage mocking of them too because they were also preachers. There was a younger preacher on that site who I was very concerned over and I wish I could know what became of him because they had him hooked up in some nonsense and I had some dreams about him and a terrible crash that he would be involved in because of them. But I trust him to God too!

 

[Grace777x70]

Really?...go read it in context.
Matthew 24:13

Scripture is not full of contradictions, although some like to make it so.

I agree.

Matthew 24 is Jesus talking about the destruction of Jerusalem that was coming in 70 AD.

Context is king in all scripture - plus we must read it through the revealed finished work of Christ or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and we water them both down.

 

[sevenseas]

way too many on here have not laid the foundation they think they have

if you don't understand the law, you really do not understand BIBLICAL grace

we are not saved by being good and we do not stay saved by being good (only God is good anyway)

actually, in HIS goodness, he has given His Spirit to each believer to produce the character of the One who died for the sin of the world

yet all are not saved as universalists (even the hidden ones in this thread..well they think they are hidden and do not intend to self identify because then they would have to explain that one and they know most won't agree so they stay 'hidden')

don't you see what appears to be a contradiction there? some solve it be becoming a universalist, others say it's because God choose who is saved or not saved, others pass it over because they don't want to even think about it, others go OUTSIDE of scripture to supply an answer and deceive themselves and the others

there is no contradiction when you apply scripture to scripture

God is not the author of confusion!

 

[FranC]

don't you know that 'endure till the end' ONLY applies to the dark continent, the hills of Scotland where the remains of druids live, the dark inner cities of European countries and China and Russia?

forget it baby!

just ask the god in your mind to supply you with all your needs

it's obvious He has forgotten about any place but the US and sometimes Canada

SS

I've heard scripture twisted so much I've begun to call it Pretzel making.

Believe doesn't mean believe
Endure doesn't mean endure
until doesn't mean until
IF doesn't mean if
Corruption doesn't mean corruption

and so on...

And I love the use of the Greek helps.
Didn't you know that if you don't know Greek, you CANNOT understand the bible?

I say we all go back to university and study Koinè Greek.
Then MAYBE, just maybe, we'll know what Jesus meant.
Those dumb translators didn't know WHAT they were doing!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

THE ABOVE IS NOT CORRECT.

If that were the case, I'd have been gone a LONG time ago.
(I have ironing to do after all )


What SOME HERE are saying is that "works" ARE NOT NECESSARY because Jesus has already done it all.

IOW, We are not here to serve God because God is here to SERVE US, and to do EVERYTHING for us.

THAT is why we're still here.

This is not correct. And I still do not know why you are here

We say we serve God because he paid it all. No one here says we should not work or serve God.

Notice how she did not deny she teaches that one must work to maintain salvation though.. thats because I was correct..

 

[sevenseas]

Yes! I was kicked out because I said I watched Benny Hinn once and he had people coming up on a stage in a very big building/stadium so they could be..."slain?" And a man and woman came up together, holding hands. So he smacked the woman on the forehead and she fell down with a man standing behind her who kind of like...let her body slide to the ground against his own body. But the man went down when she went down because they were holding hands. So Hinn said, pick him up! I didn't touch him! So the guy picked the man up, but see, they were still holding hands so the woman came up WITH him. So then Hinn smacked her forehead again to "slay" her again, but they were STILL holding hands, so down they both went again! I started laughing so hard that I peed my pants before I could get out of the chair with the dog and cat on me and by the time I ran back, Hinn had resolved it somehow I guess because they were both among those laying on the ground. So I was kicked out for mocking a preacher and mocking something I didn't understand and also for saying I peed my pants, which happens when I laugh too hard. (It's an old lady thing, sorry.) But I DID understand, and that's WHY I was laughing at him. It's like wrestling. Some swear it's not staged, but of COURSE it is. I laugh at wrestling (the few times I saw it when flipping channels when I used to watch tv) the same way. Why would you not laugh at the ridiculousness? Actually, I thought they would have had a good reason to kick me out for not being sober about the people he hooks on his snake oil, but that is not the reason they did it. It was because they thought if one laughed at Hinn, it would encourage mocking of them too because they were also preachers. There was a younger preacher on that site who I was very concerned over and I wish I could know what became of him because they had him hooked up in some nonsense and I had some dreams about him and a terrible crash that he would be involved in because of them. But I trust him to God too!

stunned

please use paragraphs?

pretty please? with a cherry on top?

pweese?

 

[sevenseas]

This is not correct. And I still do not know why you are here

We say we serve God because he paid it all. No one here says we should not work or serve God.

Notice how she did not deny she teaches that one must work to maintain salvation though.. thats because I was correct..

yuh know

she is not teaching works for salvation

you just don't see that

and.........

why are you here? you really are not in a place to ask her that question

appreciate the fact she is here and maybe try to dialogue instead of accuse

 

[Grace777x70]

Anyway - I am off for awhile. Everyone play nice with each other.

Here is the way that Paul put it when talking with the baby Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 12:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there will be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances;

Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. But we are convinced of "better things" concerning you brethren says the writer of Hebrews.

Hebrews 6:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.



Galatians 5:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

 

[FranC]

Everyone who is truly saved endures to the end.

So not everyone is TRULY saved?

How do we know the difference?

You know that Cliff we jumped off...

Your chute ain't workin' !!

 

[royalscot]

get out of the desert, without quoting scripture. (in context)

 

[FranC]

Anyway - I am off for awhile. Everyone play nice with each other.

Here is the way that Paul put it when talking with the baby Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 12:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there will be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances;

Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. But we are convinced of "better things" concerning you brethren says the writer of Hebrews.

Hebrews 6:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.



Galatians 5:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

Hey Grace,
As for me, I'm just playing around a little.

You don't want to see me when I'm REALLY mad!!

 

[Rosemaryx]

I am the same way. The Lord has always dealt with me by faith alone. I have had a few times when I actually felt His presence and it is awesome but I don't live by them which is to say - I don't base my life on whether I experience them or not.

The most over-whelming aspect of His manifested presence for me was His love. His love is such a weightly thing - tangible and I couldn't take that much of it. I couldn't move a muscle. His presence is one of no condemnation and it does have a lasting effect on you. It was like getting liquid honey poured all over me.

Sometimes it's hard to articulate things like this.

They are a very sacred time together with Him and I often remember them when there is no outward manifestation of the Lord's presence. He is with us whether we feel it or not. We are one spirit with the Lord forever. We walk by faith and not by sight.

But we don't live by sight nor feelings - we live by the faith of the Son of God who loved us and gave His life for us.

Hi Grace...I get moments to as i am sure everyone does...Sometimes i get a feeling deep down inside of me that i know is the Holy Spirit, i sit and smile and sometimes it brings tears of Joy to me, especially if i am having a bad day...I was reading in the Bible the other day, sorry i can`t recall the Scripture, but it says to me it is when God lifts us up in Him, i enjoy the moment, then i treasure it because if i think about it to much, the evil one has many times come and snatched it from me and made me believe it was all in my imagination, but i know it`s truly the Lord ...xox...

 

[sevenseas]

Sevenseas...

I learned only this week, that some believe that Jesus' message BEFORE the crucifixion is DIFFERENT from the message AFTER the Crucifixion. (as told by Paul).



YEAH you and me both. then I found out some NEW APOSTOLIC REFORMATION teach that. what am I saying? they ALL teach it. they like to have it both ways. they will use Jesus' words though if it make their point.


I don't know, I thought Jesus was a pretty smart person and maybe even GOD and KNEW what He was talking about,

really? but isn't He mostly old testament?

but, apparently, He didn't.

I mean, do people REALIZE what they're saying????
Does deafness and blindness go that deep???

well, the answer, is that God gives people over to delusion when they do not love the truth and no one is going to love me for simply repeating what Paul says, even though he came on the scene after Jesus


I'm in shock here.

well, batten the hatches girl, cause it will only get worse in spite of what the alt religious left says

 

[sevenseas]

Before cross....the world was under the old covenant laws.....

After the cross....the world is under the New covenant of grace,


Jesus taught both and how the New covenant would replace the old covenant.


In the old covenant, it was an eye for an eye....In the new it's turn the other cheek.

excepting when you have to OBEY scripture as Paul taught regarding the Corinthians

that's in my Bible anyway

maybe we should pay more attention to a time for everything

and maybe do more CONTENDING but for what the Bible teaches, not NAR, WOF and like minded heresies

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Well... Ok. I'm not sure that is definitive, but I'm not going to dismiss your experience either, but we can't rely on our feelings. They change. The Truth NEVER changes.

If he believes Jesus is God wrapped in flesh, suffered, was crucified, died for his sins, and rose again the 3rd day, then hallelujah!!

One of the apostles had discussion with some concerned elders about some gentiles and the apostle basically said: well, since I saw that they received the same Spirit we did, it's apparent that he has saved them too. Of course I'm no apostle, but I could see easily enough that he had received the same Spirit I had. So what could I do at that point but thank God and...marvel? I certainly couldn't insist that he was unsaved because of some wrong doctrine or understanding seeing as how he had received the same Spirit that I had.

 

[royalscot]

Everyone who is truly saved endures to the end.

when do, we have the same, IQ as god.
for example

jesus endured to the end ,of his calling and ministry.(let the fathers will be done)


when did that depend on me. when did i save my self. when can i conquer death alone, if i have no understand , to how and why his son, was ressurrected in the first place.

then ware is your definition ,to the end. if new means new begining. etc

 

[sevenseas]

.Christ Jesus.

yes, Jesus is Lord

but He is not forcing anyone until the end when EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess that He is, in fact, Lord

otherwise? what part do we play?

 

[PHart]

We say we serve God because he paid it all. No one here says we should not work or serve God.

But will you come right out and say that works are required in salvation because that's what saved people do, and if you don't have works to prove your relationship with Christ on the Day of Judgment then you aren't really born again, and so it is in that way that works are required? Can you come right out an say that without disguising it in other things?

If you can do that without all the 'if's, and's, and butts' then you will remove all possibility for disagreement and confusion with Fran and the rest of us. .........then we can concentrate on OSAS, lol.